Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Allowing Savegames only in certain locations/havens?

Discussion in 'What Remains' started by Surf Solar, Nov 27, 2011.

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Allowing Savegames only in certain locations/havens?

  1. Yes.

    1 vote(s)
    10.0%
  2. Yes, but make it an optional "Ironman Mode"

    8 vote(s)
    80.0%
  3. No (please elaborate why)

    1 vote(s)
    10.0%
  4. I don't really care.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Surf Solar cannot into womynz

    Surf Solar
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    I was tinkering with the idea to allow to save the game only in save havens, towns, non-hostile and friendly places and so on like in the 'olden days of RPG. Saving in the middle of a "Dungeon" would only create a quicksave which gets deleted after the next startup. Saving on a random encounter on the worldmap only works while you are resting (which needs companions to do so, they stand guard during night etc). "Real" savegames created in aforementionend save havens can be loaded infinite times.

    All of this is to prevent save scumming, to give dangerous places a more threatening sense and such (we've had a similar discussion about this and RPG in general in the General RPG section of the 'dex).

    Would you want to see such a thing? If yes, should it be mandatory? Or rather optional, kind of like an "ironman" seperate difficulty? If you don't want it all, please post your reasons too.

    Thanks! :)
     
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  2. Jaesun Fabulous Moderator Patron

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    This. However the option "save the game only in save havens, towns, non-hostile and friendly places" should be ON by default and only selectable when you start a new game, not in the games option settings.

    There should also be some kind of reward maybe for using Ironman mode mode (take for example IWD II's loot generator when using Ironman mode).
     
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  3. curry Arcane

    curry
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    You don't have the financial incentive to dumb down the game for consoleturds so don't. Make the game difficult on purpose because difficult games are usually the most rewarding for experienced players. :obviously:
     
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  4. Surf Solar cannot into womynz

    Surf Solar
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    I've played IWDII once in normal and once in hard mode, but never noticed a difference in loot - could you elaborate what you mean? :o Not only would I be interested in doing another run in the game, but also it could be interesting for What Remains.
     
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  5. Jaesun Fabulous Moderator Patron

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    In Heart of Fury mode, there are items that will ONLY drop if you have that mode on. If you don't have that mode on, you get a regular drop. Like the Life's Blood Drinker (a very powerful sword) will never ever be a loot drop if you don't have Heart of Fury mode on.
     
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  6. Excidium P. banal

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    I'm against save restrictions. It's just irritating. Who cares if some people will save scum?
     
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  7. Jaesun Fabulous Moderator Patron

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    What is wrong with an option when you begin a new game (and then locked into that mode) in Iron Man Mode or Normal?
     
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  8. Excidium P. banal

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    Nothing wrong with it being optional. It only annoys me when developers create arbitrary restrictions to force the game to be played the way it's "intended".
     
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  9. Eternauta Novice

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    In my opinion the ideal situation would be saving only in non-hostile places. Heck, I'd even say you should only be able to save in places you can rest (inns, hotels, houses, bunkers).

    If this would be too "forced", then the idea of a Harcode Mode option sounds good as well. But it should give some juicy reward to encourage the player to choose it. Maybe not just loot or more xp... How about access to some knowledge about the game story? Perhaps through locked quests.
     
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  10. kaizoku Arcane

    kaizoku
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    :salute:

    :salute:

    - I agree that it should also be an option at the start of a new game (ironman mode should obligatory have this enabled).
    - Make it that you could only save in places you can rest (inns, hotels, houses, bunkers). This restriction as opposed to just everywhere in town would solve the problem with save scumming on things like dialog and stealing (and would make it real hardcore yeahhhh). protip: add a game icon like the tent in ToEE highlighting the areas where you can rest.
    - Incentive... mmm... Maybe some merchants could have an additional 1 or 2 better item for sale. Some enemies/"chests" could drop better loot or have more ammo. NPCs could have some stats improved.
    - I'm not sure if I like the extra content only being available in ironmode... but maybe 2 or 3 easter eggs or special encounters could be a nice reward. Maybe also an extra ending slide with a picture of you and saying "congratulations. you're a true bro :bro: " :lol:
     
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  11. Spooky Skellington Arcane Shitposter

    Spooky Skellington
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    I don't really care what the saving system looks like. I've never really thought of it as an important aspect of the game. If I can only save in certain locations, that is fine. If I can save wherever I want, then that is also fine. What I would be (very slightly) against, however, is introducing optional modes of play such as an "Ironman Mode". It's not something you would typically see in an RPG because doing runs of RPG's where you handicap yourself on purpose is something that usually happens in a fan-based setting such as a forum LP or just a forum discussion with screen-shots. Like I said however, I'm only very slightly against this as I have no strong opinion on the overall topic.
     
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  12. Make America Great Again Johannes Arcane

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    Restricted saving is cool. Just needs the game be designed aroung that concept.


    Maybe have it as a cheat code to unlock unlimited loading? To point out that you CAN savescum, if you really like that, but it's not the intended mode of playing.
     
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  13. Major_Blackhart Codexia Lord Sodom Patron

    Major_Blackhart
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    Well, if you restrict it in dungeons and the like make sure you have a place that can be a save point (if the dungeon is friggin huge like some oldschool games).
     
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  14. sea Prestigious Gentleman inXile Entertainment Developer

    sea
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    There is never, ever an excuse for denying the user the option to save the game. None whatsoever. Your game should never, ever take priority over someone's life or presume to know the player's needs.

    That said, I'm totally fine with a mode that offers limited saving options for players that want it, i.e. only one save slot, which is deleted upon being loaded (though make sure you have an autosave system of some sort if this is the case). Nothing wrong with that, as long as it's kept optional.
     
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  15. Make America Great Again Johannes Arcane

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    How does a restrictive saving system "take priority over someones life"?

    Roguelikes do it right. You can savescum if you like, but the game does not officially support it and everyone knows you haven't properly beat the game unless you do it without dying. And it is interesting and rewarding.
     
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  16. kaizoku Arcane

    kaizoku
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    There... fixed it.
     
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  17. sea Prestigious Gentleman inXile Entertainment Developer

    sea
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    House on fire.

    Kids are screaming.

    Wife had an accident.

    Chair collapsed and my spine broke.

    Whatever. Point is that I should be able to save whenever I want and keep playing when I want; nobody has the right to tell me when I'm "allowed" to save, as a designer is simply not in a position to presume what the demands of my life are, and should not be arrogant to "know better" than me when I should be allowed to.
     
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  18. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    Notice that proposed mode doesn't. You can save and exit anywhere you want, it's just that you can't reload this save. Reloadable saves can only be created in places where you can rest, which effectively breaks the game down into small ironman segments, without making it ironman as a whole.
     
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  19. Crooked Bee pro-vacation Patron

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    Save/checkpoints is the best save system ever made. That way, and only that way, you are required to actually think about what you're doing. You mustn't be allowed to save anywhere, that's just pussy mode and takes all the challenge out. You should be, however, allowed to exit the game if you want to, which should create something like a temporary save file that you can't simply reload.

    Personally, I believe Dark Heart of Uukrul's system still remains the best kind of compromise. You can "back up" your game at the sanctuaries, which basically serve as (manual) check points. You can also save anywhere in the dungeon, but once you get into an encounter/are poisoned/one of your characters is killed/whatever, the regular save gets rewritten so you can't just reload but must either bite the bullet -- in DHoU, that means trying to resurrect the fallen character(s), which is relatively complicated since bodies decompose, or hire new party members at the guild -- or reload the sanctuary back-up save, which would still require you to do the part of the dungeon you previously failed at again so you'd be more careful this time.
     
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  20. sea Prestigious Gentleman inXile Entertainment Developer

    sea
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    Yeah I know, I was more just speaking generally. Just wanted to get that out of the way. I have always hated limited save systems with a passion; I understand the goal behind them (make the player play for the long game rather than save scum, or increase tension), but I feel that the sacrifice is simply not worth the return.
     
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  21. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    Well, the point here it's that it isn't limited save system, but a limited load system. It's like ironman, only less severe. While I generally hate checkpoints of all kinds, and would prefer simply penalizing reloads, this thing here has definite potential.
     
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  22. Surf Solar cannot into womynz

    Surf Solar
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    That was the idea, yep. Players should feel more threatened and think twice about what they are doing in dangerous enviroments, knowing that you can just quicksave on each corner destroys that feeling. This also means that the designer should under no circumstances implement "unfair" situations (where you simply couldn't know this particular tile XY causes instant death etc) and I am aware of this. Well prepared characters/parties should never be penalized, especially if death means that you need to backpedal all the way from the last savehouse etc.

    As it will be optional, it's the best of both worlds I think.
     
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  23. shihonage You see: shelter. Patron

    shihonage
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    In my project, player already can't save while in combat mode, dialogue, in "big map" travel mode, and while standing inside a random encounter map.

    It's because of engine issues, but I'll happily pretend it's a gameplay mechanic.
     
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  24. Surf Solar cannot into womynz

    Surf Solar
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    Hehe, keep it like that! Only on the worldmap (if that's what you mean with "big map" ) I don't see why the player should not be able to save.
     
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  25. shihonage You see: shelter. Patron

    shihonage
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    But you couldn't save in worldmap in Fallout either, or could you?
     
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