Age of Decadence Reviews

[Shadenuat]

What is with the whining over the character introductions? Put yourself in any period of time, including the present, take any semi-public figure and you would immediately know a similar blurb of information about that character without actively pursuing any knowledge, for good or ill.

Who's there to say what my character knows except myself? It's my character. I personally wouldn't give any answer about Clinton except "she's kwa politician", failing my [Lore: Politics] check.

And so would, say, my INT 4 Lore 1 thief character in a post apocalyptic world where all history gets quickly forgotten and there is no means of quick travel or information travel between cities.

The introductions range from small and logical depending on character you picked to encyclopedical.

Perhaps you weren't paying attention to the story of Antonius Messalla in the game

I didn't becase it didn't happen to me.
However if I would be a character who denied Commercium and had that happen to me, I would appreciate what Commercium is a lot more.

What, if I say that Thief doesn't have use for Steal skill but he has to you'd say it's Disney view? Lel.

It seems that people are so used to the illusion many character systems provide that any attempt to make stats and skills matter (beyond making you more awesome in combat) rubs them the wrong way and make them think that something is broken here.

The way you designed checks is not consistent through game stages, if it always were Stat + Skill or Stats directly affected skill values via character system nobody would have trouble understanding what game wants from them. As for now a character with 4 Charisma can pass some of endgame Persuasion checks, except times when he can't.

 

[cherry blossom]

The way you designed checks is not consistent through game stages, if it always were...

Stats and skills are measures of your character's abilities in different areas, no? You are arguing against the game based on how lightly other games take these, very actively dismissing what the game tells you straight up against common sense.

 

[Whisper]

I wait for Darth Roxor review on AoD.

/popcorn

 

[Tigranes]

That lore-check solution to meta-knowledge sounds like a lot of players would end up totally blinkered about what is going on, and for no good reason other than some pig-headed idea of immershun. Sorry, but I know I'm playing a video game and I don't need to simulate what my character did or did not find out about the world he/she lived in for the last few decades.

I did like the touch where you enter Maadoran's trade quarter and get that merchant complaining about the Commercium, and the farmer too. If Aemolas complained about them too, or if miltiades was waylaid by them, it would be even better.

 

[Vault Dweller]

What, if I say that Thief doesn't have use for Steal skill but he has to you'd say it's Disney view? Lel.

You mean like stealing the mandate in the first quest, stealing the ring in the second, stealing the badge in the palace, etc?

The way you designed checks is not consistent through game stages, if it always were Stat + Skill or Stats directly affected skill values via character system nobody would have trouble understanding what game wants from them. As for now a character with 4 Charisma can pass some of endgame Persuasion checks, except times when he can't.

I don't recall any instances where there is min req for CHA in a double check. Charisma usually acts as a modifier, allowing you to pass with a weaker speech skill, unless it's a single CHA check.

 

[Shadenuat]

Stats and skills are measures of your character's abilities in different areas, no? You are arguing against the game based on how lightly other games take these, very actively dismissing what the game tells you straight up against common sense.

What areas? Why do some checks take your stats into concideration and some don't, even when what happens in the game is mostly the same?

Common sense would be, say, to use Charisma check instead of Persuasion when NPCs judge your physical beauty or leadership qualities, but use Persuasion + Charisma and Etiquette + Charisma when you have to navigate through negotiations.
However it often goes in some strange ways when you first have to pass Skill + Skill and then same Skill + Stat and things like that, which raises question as why not just take Stat into concideration by default for checks like that.
For example, take 1/2 of stat rounded down and add that to all skill checks that may ask for it.

That lore-check solution to meta-knowledge sounds like a lot of players would end up totally blinkered about what is going on

Not if small common lore (Vince's "2 sentences") was for everyone and big encyclopedic for Streetwise/Lore.

You mean like stealing the mandate in the first quest, stealing the ring in the second, stealing the badge in the palace, etc?

Teron is a good place for Thief. But you can see how imporant Steal is for Thief who doesn't even go into combat here: Thief stuff
Note high Critical Strike because Thief quest line forces you into some assasin stuff especially later in game.
In comparison Merchant wouldn't be able to finish Commercium quest line with 4-6 points in skills (well unless maybe with 10 points in CHA).

 

[Whisper]

How CHA works? What is bonus to reaction?

I have attitude with house 3, but i have charisma 8 (+15 bonus) so it is now 3+15 = 18 attitude?

 

[Jaedar]

I don't recall any instances where there is min req for CHA in a double check. Charisma usually acts as a modifier, allowing you to pass with a weaker speech skill, unless it's a single CHA check.

Perhaps not, but it's pretty rare to see a cha+skill that requires less than 12 or so (although there are some in thief and assassin guild quests). While you can do that with a 4 in charisma, odds are you won't have enough points at that point in the game (fe 8 persuasion in Teron). There are also a couple 15+ requirements, which effectively have a minimum cha requirement.

Basically, to do the cha+skill stuff, you tend to need "high charisma" for that guild, so 9 or 10 for a merchant, around 7 for the rest. At least that is my impression.

What does reaction modifier even do btw?

 

[Shadenuat]

What is bonus to reaction?

Someone here said it is actually useless and doesn't work.

I had great success with non-combat builds with dumped 4 CHA which felt very weird especially when playing as, say, Aurelian praetor and passing very hard persuasion checks.

 

[Vault Dweller]

1) It modifies your reputation with a faction. At the moment the reputation isn't checked often (but it is checked, including the ending). What doesn't work is the reaction to negative reputation, but that will be fixed in the upcoming updates.

2) It unlocks training making it useful for hybrids.

3) It's checked in dialogues.

 

[cherry blossom]

What areas? Why do some checks take your stats into concideration and some don't, even when what happens in the game is mostly the same?

Common sense would be, say, to use Charisma check instead of Persuasion when NPCs judge your physical beauty or leadership qualities, but use Persuasion + Charisma and Etiquette + Charisma when you have to navigate through negotiations.
However it often goes in some strange ways when you first have to pass Skill + Skill and then same Skill + Stat and things like that, which raises question as why not just take Stat into concideration by default for checks like that.
For example, take 1/2 of stat rounded down and add that to all skill checks that may ask for it.

What is strange about it? Some characters, in some situations, naturally require higher display of a multitude of different abilities to be convinced. It sounds to me like you just want to pass all checks without any fuss with a "win/awesome" button regardless of its abstract difficulty and whether your character should qualify or not.

So your complaint about some obscure non-issue inconsistency turns out to simply be a disagreement with the specific choices of skills or stats per specific checks.

Tough love.

 

[Jaedar]

2) It unlocks training making it useful for hybrids.

I must oppose this statement. The amount of free skillpoints you get from having charisma is not that much (certainly less than putting those same points into Int). Charisma is pretty much a complete dump stat for hybrids in my opinion, since you need the stat points in the combat stats.

 

[Shadenuat]

It sounds to me like you just want to pass all checks without any fuss with a "win/awesome" button

As compared to the difficulty of hoarding points and reloading.
Very tough lah

So your complaint about some obscure non-issue inconsistency turns out to simply be a disagreement with the specific choices of skills or stats per specific checks.

I prefer more consistent and elegant roleplaying systems. If I was allowed to add my choice of stat (say CHA) to one Persuasion check, I want it added always since it's good for planning character build, unless there's something very specific and logical in developer's mind. If it's only a few times in the game then it's bad both for planning and for the value of CHA as stat itself since I will be able to easily metagame around a few separate CHA checks.
If I was allowed to Critical Strike one goon in Teron, I am expecting same options in all fights, for example - and it would also be good for that skill, since players won't forget about it and dump it because they were allowed to use it in 2 fights in Teron but none in Maadoran.

Observation: It's actually very interesting how some skills in AoD end up winners or losers because of their combinations with other skills and stats. For example, Persuasion 8 and Streetwise and Trade 4 is probably better than compared to Trade 8 and Persuasion and Streetwise 4 because Trade doesn't seem to be checked as often with Streetwise (although sometimes it does), while there are also frequient separate Persuasion checks, sometimes beyond your own guild quest line.
At least that's how it felt to me.
And there are even 10 levels for every skill imagine that, and if some maybe deserve 10 points (Alchemy, weapon skills, Lore), I am left to wonder why others even have an option to level them up so high.

Bit of a tangent on that note, I'd have preferred that the more difficult talking checks were staggered with actual 'listening tests' like the Lorenza dialogue

I agree 100% btw. It actually made me go into game files to understand what's that dialogue was about because game never did that before and sadly not after too.

 

[Elhoim]

How CHA works? What is bonus to reaction?

I have attitude with house 3, but i have charisma 8 (+15 bonus) so it is now 3+15 = 18 attitude?

3*1.15 = 3.45.

 

[Lurker King]

What is strange about it? Some characters, in some situations, naturally require higher display of a multitude of different abilities to be convinced. It sounds to me like you just want to pass all checks without any fuss with a "win/awesome" button regardless of its abstract difficulty and whether your character should qualify or not.

So your complaint about some obscure non-issue inconsistency turns out to simply be a disagreement with the specific choices of skills or stats per specific checks.

Tough love.

 

[Bubbles]

Evidence of impropriety is starting to surface:

 

[Irenaeus II]

Evidence of impropriety is starting to surface:

 

[cherry blossom]

I prefer more consistent and elegant roleplaying systems. If I was allowed to add my choice of stat (say CHA) to one Persuasion check, I want it added always since it's good for planning character build, unless there's something very specific and logical in developer's mind. If it's only a few times in the game then it's bad both for planning and for the value of CHA as stat itself since I will be able to easily metagame around a few separate CHA checks.
If I was allowed to Critical Strike one goon in Teron, I am expecting same options in all fights, for example - and it would also be good for that skill, since players won't forget about it and dump it because they were allowed to use it in 2 fights in Teron but none in Maadoran.

Observation: It's actually very interesting how some skills in AoD end up winners or losers because of their combinations with other skills and stats. For example, Persuasion 8 and Streetwise and Trade 4 is probably better than compared to Trade 8 and Persuasion and Streetwise 4 because Trade doesn't seem to be checked as often with Streetwise (although sometimes it does), while there are also frequient separate Persuasion checks, sometimes beyond your own guild quest line.
At least that's how it felt to me.
And there are even 10 levels for every skill imagine that, and if some maybe deserve 10 points (Alchemy, weapon skills, Lore), I am left to wonder why others even have an option to level them up so high.

Now those are better articulated concerns with some validity.

For the most part, I sense that the game lets you in on the viable choices and combinations of skills and stats little by little during different checks, so you develop a feeling for it and a personal direction during Teron, and stick with it and make it work from thereon.

More than 2 crit checks in Teron, by the way. Not sure about Maadoran.

 

[Vault Dweller]

If I was allowed to Critical Strike one goon in Teron, I am expecting same options in all fights, for example - and it would also be good for that skill, since players won't forget about it and dump it because they were allowed to use it in 2 fights in Teron but none in Maadoran.

There are TONS of CS checks in the game.

I agree 100% btw. It actually made me go into game files to understand what's that dialogue was about because game never did that before and sadly not after too.

We used it 3 times, actually (where we felt it makes sense). Lorenza, Azra, Senna's murder investigation.

 

[Shadenuat]

There are TONS of CS checks in the game.

I'm talking about side quests and side fights. For example you can lower combat difficulty with CS in Aurelian Outpost/Raiders and I think Village with gold too, but not in Monastery/Slums and some other fights.
Not denying that there are worse skills than CS.

We used it 3 times, actually (where we felt it makes sense). Lorenza, Azra, Senna's murder investigation.

I've found 1 during my Merchant playthrough but never felt the need to pay attention to dialogue as much as there in my other 4 playthroughs (2 of them non-combat).

you develop a feeling for it and a personal direction during Teron, and stick with it and make it work from thereon.

Actually some quests do take a bit of dramatic turn later on. Things that worked for you in Teron might not work as well later, and Thief line has some examples of that (Magus fight).

 

[Vault Dweller]

Not denying that there are worse skills than CS.

'Worse' implies that it's an underdeveloped skill. It's not.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

He wants to use it all the time or it's not awesome.You should be able to use any skill all the time or your game is broken ,duh.

 

[Tigranes]

Yeah, sorry. There are tons of CS checks, and if every time you went up close to any person you could use CS to kill them, the game would quickly become a mess. That's like saying you should be able to use your Charisma check in every conversation, or that you should be able to Impersonate for every quest. You might as well give a 10 CS check to kill Gaelius on the spot (though, I suppose, Vince would then have the guards shoot and kill you instantly).

 

[Lurker King]

He wants to use it all the time or it's not awesome.You should be able to use any skill all the time or your game is broken ,duh.

And if you do this, some of the skills will be an annoyance for players that don’t want to use that particular skill. Just imagine if traps were distributed all over the game just to reward players that invest in traps. You fuck every player that doesn’t want anything to do with traps. That is without even considering that is completely retarded from a narrative point of view.

 

[Shadenuat]

There is no logical reason not to give a CS check against some thugs ambushing you in one part of the game if game already did it in situations very similar to it.

You might as well give a 10 CS check to kill Gaelius on the spot (though, I suppose, Vince would then have the guards shoot and kill you instantly).

There is a CS check to kill a heavily armored experienced legionary-turned-raider in front of his own people during the day. Not even with any sort of preparation involved or extra Sneak/stalking in the night. Yet when you meet guy alone covered in blood after he kills aurelians for you there is no CS option.

And then there's a CS check against Antidas in IG line.

The more checks you give players with particular skill like that, the more glaring abscence of these checks becomes in situations that may be even more appropriate (in Monastery killing leader is a Stat+Stat check instead of Stat+CS check for example).

Just imagine if traps were distributed all over the game just to reward players that invest in traps.

Let's not start on Traps as a skill