Age of Decadence February/March update

[Ninjerk]

I think the following things limit AoD's appeal or at least first impression.

A relatively unpolished presentation. It's not terrible, but you compare it to the beautiful D:OS, and well it looks lacking.

The difficulty is in understanding the systems more than player sill. Dark Souls is hard, but a player can overcome not understanding the character system with good twitch skills. You can't overcome not understanding the AoD character system. Other games like BG2, Fallout, etc you can overcome lack of understanding character system with grinding.

A sudden influx of isometric-style RPGs. 2 years ago it would have been competing with crap like the Book of Eschalon, whatever Vogel's latest game was and even worse crap like Wintervoices. Now you have D:OS, WL2, upcoming PoE, Underrail, and others. It's just a more crowded market.

There is tutorial area or learning zone. Most of the starting vignettes throw the player right into the deep end with a high lethality rate. Dark Souls has a tutorial area. The Fallouts have tutorial areas. WL2 has like 3 tutorial areas in a row (one of the things that annoys me about the game). I think if people could at least feel like they were understanding what was going on before the proverbial hammer drops on them, I think it would get a more positive impression.

Still, you have about the same number of reviews as Underrail, and attracted a more dedicated troll than Underrail's "you stole Fallout assets" guy. So you have that going for you.

On the bright side, those who make bad builds (as I have made many) can just betray whomever you're working for to progress

 

[MRY]

I don't think that the sudden influx is the problem. Again, you don't play games like AoD or Underrail simply because they are isometric. You play them because they offer you something that WL2, D:OS, and PoE don't (I backed all 3 games, mind you).

I don't have an ounce of your business savvy or experience, but I tentatively disagree with this theory. When a particular genre is sufficiently empty, people are willing to overcome even very high barriers to entry. To give a couple examples from my own childhood: I was obsessed with fantasy and really like jRPGs when I was in middle/early high school, and back then there was basically no TV or film fantasy (nothing like today) and relatively few jRPGs that were translated. As a consequence, I sought out and watched anime and cartoon movies that were pretty horrible, even though I didn't even care much for anime or cartoons, simply because they were fantasy. I never succumbed to watching the Hercules TV show, but I'm willing to be a lot of nerds did simply for a fantasy fix. Likewise, I remember playing a variety of horrible jRPG-ish games on the computer (Aspetra, for example, or an untranslated Korean game).

There are people (like me, if I had more time) who would push through whatever was turning them off in AOD simply to get an isometric RPG with talk-tree fix if there were no alternatives. But once there are more isoemtric RPGs with talk trees than there is time to play them, players become discriminating and say, "Meh, this is too hard" or "Meh, the graphics are too bland."

The same thing was true with point and clicks. I went through a period where I'd play almost anything, and soldiered through otherwise mediocre games like Dreamfall, Syberia, some older AGS titles, etc., which I probably would not have bothered with in the golden age.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I don't have an ounce of your business savvy...

My business savvy revolves around selling advertising to businesses and managing an army of sales reps. When it comes to the gaming industry, I know as much as anyone else here.

When a particular genre is sufficiently empty, people are willing to overcome even very high barriers to entry. To give a couple examples from my own childhood: I was obsessed with fantasy and really like jRPGs when I was in middle/early high school, and back then there was basically no TV or film fantasy (nothing like today) and relatively few jRPGs that were translated. As a consequence, I sought out and watched anime and cartoon movies that were pretty horrible, even though I didn't even care much for anime or cartoons, simply because they were fantasy. I never succumbed to watching the Hercules TV show, but I'm willing to be a lot of nerds did simply for a fantasy fix. Likewise, I remember playing a variety of horrible jRPG-ish games on the computer (Aspetra, for example, or an untranslated Korean game).

I completely agree. I've read some horrible books and watched some shitty movies and TV shows because I love fantasy, but that's a way of least resistance not an uphill battle.

However, AoD was never the only fantasy game (if you can call it fantasy). Most people want to slay monsters rather than be stuck between men fighting for power. It may be the only pseudo-Roman pseudo-isometric TB game, but that's not saying much. Before WL2 and PoE there were Dragon Age 1, Alpha Protocol, Skyrim, Gothic 4, Divinity 2, etc.

There are people (like me, if I had more time) who would push through whatever was turning them off in AOD simply to get an isometric RPG with talk-tree fix if there were no alternatives. But once there are more isoemtric RPGs with talk trees than there is time to play them, players become discriminating and say, "Meh, this is too hard" or "Meh, the graphics are too bland."

Well, the only RPG with decent dialogue trees is PoE and it's not out yet.

 

[MRY]

I don't think people even need the dialogue trees to be decent. Again, thinking back to Young and Despearate Mark, I think it would just be a question of whether it has dialogue trees at all, rather than a keyword system, although I guess dialogue trees have become so ubiquitous that this is no longer a point of distinction.

[EDIT: I should clarify that when said "like me," that wasn't to say that I had tried AOD and found something objectionable about it that was turning me off. (Though I am almost certain I would be thwarted by its difficulty level, given the incompetence into which I've sunken in my dotage.) I just meant people like me who are willing to lower their standards absurdly to scratch an itch.]

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Any word on ETA? I played Early Access quite a bit some time ago but I wanna wait for full release before I dive into it again.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Aiming to release the third city and 2 related locations in early April (currently available via an opt-in beta on Steam). We'll need around 3 months to do the remaining 3 locations plus a month or so to fix bugs, go over balance, etc. Mid-summer most likely.

 

[Aenra]

tuluse always has good points
and while i agree with him in terms of first impression, i'm not so sure about the overall appeal.

Gamers have become a lot more ..forgiving?.. in terms of production levels and visual quality. So many non-AA titles coming out in Steam that are not only bought, but even player-recommended. Most can already find it within themselves to see past the 'Indie" tag, or at least modify their criteria accordingly. Which is really a sign of maturity for me, i would not have forseen that ten years ago. This is the true incline for me, chances are given where they were not.
So, to the extent they are concerned?
There is a demo out there to try out, so the appeal only enters the equation after that's played. Or during..Before that, you got word of mouth and curiosity. So i think the primary issue would be their own levels of patience. How much time and thought they would be willing to put prior to saying 'fuck that shit' and move on.
And i am not sure how that can be overcome in AoD, i mean without changing it drastically, which would beat the point.

 

[Crooked Bee]

You should get in touch with George Ziets for your sci-fi RPG, VD

You mentioned once that you’d be interested in creating a hard science-fiction RPG. While Numenera can be loosely classified as such, were you ever thinking about different sci-fi settings? What themes would you like to explore?

Yes! Numenera is a lot of fun, but it’s more of a far future, science fantasy setting. I’d be interested in developing a nearer-future setting with technologies that can be realistically predicted by present-day science. I’d also want to get away from Earth – too many science fiction settings today are post-apocalyptic futures. I’d rather visit our solar system in about 300 to 500 years when humanity has expanded beyond the home planet, established dozens of semi-autonomous colonies, and begun to modify ourselves and other life forms to survive on Mars, in the clouds above Venus, and on the moons of Jupiter and Saturn. I think that particular future would be a wild and chaotic place with unregulated technology of all kinds and hundreds of competing interests… which is a great, conflict-rich setup for storytelling.

Thematically, one idea that interests me is fragmentation - what will it mean for humanity to branch out into the solar system, gradually forming new societies that are separated by vast distances? The early European colonies in the Americas were founded by all sorts of different groups - what sorts of people from our present-day world would choose to leave the home planet and establish new societies throughout the solar system? How would those nascent societies evolve and grow apart? When we’re no longer stuck on the same planet together, can (and should) humanity still remain a coherent whole?

I’m also interested in the creative instinct – the human drive to change and manipulate everything around us. I think this tendency could become even more pronounced as we move into the future – for example, modifying biological life forms to serve human needs in other worlds and environments… or manipulating the intellectual capacities of other species, as in David Brin’s Uplift series… or even modifying ourselves into entirely new forms, as with the Ousters in Dan Simmons’ Hyperion books. Exploring the implications of such major changes could be really interesting.

http://grimuar.pl/interview/george-ziets

 

[Esquilax]

Hey, Vault Dweller, are there any plans to include PC portraits a la Arcanum in the game? I know that there's some degree of visual customization for characters, but seeing as how the quality of artwork in the game is generally very high, it seems like including the possibility of adding portraits for player characters could add a really nice atmospheric touch. Understandably, this probably won't happen since it likely means a lot of extra work for the artist and plus you guys still have a whole bunch of stuff left to complete, so this is likely a low priority.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Hey, Vault Dweller, are there any plans to include PC portraits a la Arcanum in the game? I know that there's some degree of visual customization for characters, but seeing as how the quality of artwork in the game is generally very high, it seems like including the possibility of adding portraits for player characters could add a really nice atmospheric touch. Understandably, this probably won't happen since it likely means a lot of extra work for the artist and plus you guys still have a whole bunch of stuff left to complete, so this is likely a low priority.

No plans.

The artist has a lot on his plate and adding PC portraits would mean adding at least 14-16 portraits (7-8 of each gender), which is a lot of work. If he has time, I'd rather add more NPCs portraits as you'd see them more often than your own.

 

[Shadowfang]

Vault Dweller, i read somewhere they you took inspiration on many characters historical events.
What's the story behind the Boatmen of Styx background?
They're origins felt very organic, and i really liked how they clinged to it like it gave them some sort of legitimacy to act as they do.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I thought it would be a fairly realistic scenario under the circumstances. The Boatmen aren't based on any particular story but there are plenty of cases of ex-soldiers and ex-army units forming 'for cause' or 'for profit' groups. From discharged Roman soldiers forming legions to fight for Mithridates to Blackwater, the Iraqi army, etc.

 

[Aenra]

you are the second person i see here fully deserving their tag Sulaco.
edit: though i still think it's unfair (being a one way thing)

 

[Aenra]

your counter argument

should be plural. There's three of them, and you provided them all on your own. Read what you posted again.
regardless, i was being needlessly offensive. You have my apologies.

 

[tuluse]

I don't know if the appeal has lessened but there is more competition, and by people with better marketing and polished products. It's certainly possible that PoE, D:OS and friends grow the total market and make more room for AoD rather than less, but it's also possible they squeeze it more.

Markets are hard.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I don't know if the appeal has lessened but there is more competition, and by people with better marketing and polished products. It's certainly possible that PoE, D:OS and friends grow the total market and make more room for AoD rather than less, but it's also possible they squeeze it more.

Markets are hard.

Hard to say.

Take Prelude to Darkness, for example - a game that nobody played even though there was nothing to play. I don't see games like PoE (or anything done by a large studio) as a direct competition. Allegedly, PoE sold 300,000 copies in 3 days. That's an entirely different kind of ballpark. We won't sell 100,000 copies even in 10 years, but we don't have to.

We don't compete for the same market share, so I see more RPGs as a good thing because they do expand the market and generate more interest. If PoE sells 1 million copies and even 1% of people who didn't play such games before start looking for games that are less Skyrim or DA3 and try our demo, it's a Great Thing (TM).

AoD is not for the casual market. It's for people who love RPGs. I finished WL2 many months ago. The only game I tried since was Sunless Sea. I played it for 37 min and that's all I could handle. Now I'm playing PoE, enjoying it and looking forward to the expansion. Then what? Long wait for Torment 2? The market is so fucking far from being over-saturated with RPGs it's kinda sad.

 

[Johannes]

Then what?

18 Micro-issues remaining.

 

[tuluse]

Off topic Vault Dweller but you should try Neoscavenger. It's a p cool roguelike-rpg hybrid.

 

[Konjad]

Then what? Long wait for Torment 2? The market is so fucking far from being over-saturated with RPGs it's kinda sad.

AoD release date not before Torment 2 release date confirmed.

 

[Modron]

Torment 2 release date confirmed.

Is that before or after Avatar 2?

 

[Ezrite]

Oh, oh.

Its ok, we can't have it all. And by the way, is not as if AoD looked bad either.

I must say, AoD got a certain charm to it! It looks awesome. No need for flashy nonsense when you create a good, vibrant world that lives and got this unique look.

 

[Lurker King]

I must say, AoD got a certain charm to it! It looks awesome. No need for flashy nonsense when you create a good, vibrant world that lives and got this unique look.

Indeed, it looks good. It is just that a game with such a strong literary and CYOA vibe would benefit from much more art, especially on the text-adventure parts.

 

[Ezrite]

Indeed, it looks good. It is just that a game with such a strong literary and CYOA vibe would benefit from much more art, especially on the text-adventure parts.

Very true. It is a very nice game but with a even more graphical, esthetical things it could be even more immersive. I imagine a more modern engine that could render many more models and so on!