A conversation with a gaming journalist

[Vault Dweller]

I hate your style of ripping the authors post into single sentences and then replying with a one-liner to it.

I call it "cutting through bullshit" style. It's trademarked.

Geeze, what is it that causes you to use this style? I dont think its lacking intelligence, so what is it? Do you just like to take the easy way out? Lacking language skills? I dunnp. It just seems annoying...

I'd have to go with "lacking language skills". To be honest, writing paragraphs somehow scares me. It's something that only professional writers should deal with.

 

[Naked Ninja]

My job is to make sure that sales numbers are going up. Month after month after month. I can do whatever the fuck I want, but as long as them numbers are going up, I'm the the height or professionalism. Spiritual leader I'm not.

If my job was to make sure that private conversations remain private, then your position would be correct.

I didn't ask you what your job description was, I asked you about your behavior on the job. So you are saying you have done something similar to the example I gave? Professionalism is not what you do, its HOW you do it. Do you or do you not do this kind of thing in an environment where it could impact on how your co-workers see you professionally, unlike anonymous internet forums? Don't say "I can do what I want". Prove it. State, honestly that you HAVE done it. It's a neat sidestep otherwise. "Anything you want" says nothing about what you have actually done.

Yeah, Patrick was dying to work with me and other indie developers. A real journalist this boy was.

And you've proven him right. Well done on representing "Indie Developers" btw. You've done your part to ensure the continuation of the mainstreams stereotype that we're all unprofessional. Outstanding.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever seen from you. Profit and utter lack of anything resembling morals and ethics are "the oil which keeps the business world moving".

Nonsense. If the business world worked like the Codex no one would be able to function through the shouting and hurling of insults. When you come to work every day you expect your fellows to be vaguelly polite, to act with a bit of courtesy. Companies can't function if even simple things like communicating via email degenerates into an ego contest or a spite trip. It would be impossible for any company to make even the slightest progress otherwise, don't be silly.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I didn't ask you what your job description was...

professionalism

noun
the expertness characteristic of a professional person

Professionalism is not what you do, its HOW you do it.

True. It's not an ethical thing though, it's how good and knowledgeable you are at what you do.

Do you or do you not do this kind of thing in an environment where it could impact on how your co-workers see you professionally, unlike anonymous internet forums? Don't say "I can do what I want". Prove it. State, honestly that you HAVE done it.

Honestly? I have done very hard things serving the interests of the company. Things that I'm not proud of you. Things that had to be done. Things that were much worse than posting a rather harmless conversation on some forums. Things that made me regret being in this position. Satisfied?

And you've proven him right. Well done on representing "Indie Developers" btw. You've done your part to ensure the continuation of the mainstreams stereotype that we're all unprofessional. Outstanding.

Well, run after him and tell him that not everyone is like VD. That you are better and definitely professional. Maybe he'll put in a good word for you.

Nonsense. If the business world worked like the Codex no one would be able to function through the shouting and hurling of insults. When you come to work every day you expect your fellows to be vaguelly polite, to act with a bit of courtesy. Companies can't function if even simple things like communicating via email degenerates into an ego contest or a spite trip. It would be impossible for any company to make even the slightest progress otherwise, don't be silly.

Remember Compaq? Back when it was #1 manufacturer? Do you know why it fell and was bought out?

http://www.dwightsilverman.com/cpq-mgmt.htm

In April 1998, at a regular weekly senior staff meeting on the Compaq Computer Corp. campus, chief executive Eckhard Pfeiffer told his lieutenants that he had a problem. We're not working together as a team, Pfeiffer said.

That opened the door for Robert W. Stearns, then Compaq's senior vice president for business development, to say out loud what many had been thinking for some time.

"I don't see how we can work as a team when there are actually two teams," attendees say Stearns told Pfeiffer. "There is clearly an A team and a B team."

Stearns identified Pfeiffer, Chief Financial Officer Earl Mason, enterprise computing group Senior Vice President John T. Rose and Hans Gutsch, the senior vice president for human resources, as the members of the A team.

The B team was "everyone else," he said.

The A team got instant access to Pfeiffer, choice assignments and were the officers who were actually running the company. The B team's members, on the other hand, frequently found themselves waiting for long periods outside his office -- when they could get in to see him at all, Stearns said.

When Stearns finished, a few other executives spoke up in agreement.

Then Pfeiffer spoke.

"If there is a B team," the chief executive said icily, "it is because you have put yourselves on it."

More than a year later, many executives in that room would be gone -- including Pfeiffer himself, who was removed by Compaq's board of directors on April 18. Upset by declining profits and the company's seeming inability to react fast enough to market shifts, the board took action after studying the situation for more than a year.

Insiders say a divided management team -- split by petty infighting and outright grabs for power -- had become distant from Pfeiffer, the company's lower echelons and trends in the fast-moving PC industry.

How that split occurred is a matter of debate. Some current and former top managers say the so-called A-team formed a kind of Chinese wall around Pfeiffer. Others -- including Pfeiffer -- say jealousy over key executive assignments related to the acquisitions of Tandem Computer and Digital Equipment Corp. inspired the division.

Either way, the intrigue in the upper levels of Compaq's management is blamed for the company's current slump, its worst since the disastrous late 1991 period that cost co-founder Rod Canion his job as the company's original chief executive.

One of many stories. In the company where I work, the power-grabs, infighting, and corporate politics are overwhelming. When I was a manager, two other managers hired a girl, transfered her to my department and had her claim sexual harassment against me, promising her my job once I'm gone. Good times.

 

[MF]

Profit and utter lack of anything resembling morals and ethics are "the oil which keeps the business world moving".

Wrong. It's called coffee.

Profit is more like the thing the business world is moving towards. And a lack of morals is like shedding excess weight to gain a speed advantage.

I dug up my old creation to summarize this issue :

 

[Excrément]

Rex Exitium. TEH COME BACK (flip flopping apart)!
P.S : hope this internet drama is gonna save rpgcodex.com because for the moment rpgcodex didn't have any "fallout news" effect :
http://siteanalytics.compete.com/rpgcod ... ic=avgStay

 

[Gambler]

Why? I've heard enough empty statements for one day. Care to actually explain why?

Because people should not be treated like things. That is the basis for ethics. Conversation transcript is not just some server log, that you can dump on wherever you want. There are two individuals involved.

In this particular case, it is clear that one of the individuals did not want the conversation to be published. If you thought he didn't mind this, you should have asked his permission. Did you? Does not looks like it. Therefore, you knew the guy did not want for this thing to be published, but you did it anyway, simply because you wanted to.

It's not about how important the conversation was. If it wasn't important at all, you would not have published it here. Neither it is about how worthy your counterpart was. Actually, it's pretty easy to treat people you like with respect. It's when you're dealing with the other kinds your personal ethic standards really show.

And please don't ask me to prove that you _have to_ act ethically. You don't, you have to choose, that's exactly the point.

...

What is all this for, anyway? You're saying that this is about gaming journalism, but who in here really thinks that "professional" gaming journalism isn't screwed up? It's self-evident. Open IGN, GameSpy, GameSpot, etc., and it jumps at you.

 

[Naked Ninja]

Honestly? I have done very hard things serving the interests of the company. Things that I'm not proud of you. Things that had to be done. Things that were much worse than posting a rather harmless conversation on some forums. Things that made me regret being in this position. Satisfied?

No. Thats not the same at all, you're side stepping again. Forwarding a private email conversation around the office because you disagree with the other persons point of view is an entirely personal act, not one called for by your job. It is an act of spite. It isn't in any way "necessary".

Posting a private conversation on a public forum for hyenas to tear apart is not "necessary". The Codex certainly doesn't need another circle jerk. It was an act of ego stroking spite. Don't act like this is a comparable act. It did not need to be done for IronTower, for your company. You did it for yourself, for the emotional payoff. Please don't paint yourself the matyr, it's laughable.

Your point proves what? That Compaq execs acted unprofessionally (and just plain stupidly) and the company suffered for it? How does that prove your point? Like I said, that kind of behavior will over time eat a company from the inside. It isn't sustainable.

And what makes you think that anyone else acting unprofessionally justifies you doing it? You demand professional behavior from game journalists? Start with yourself.

Oh, and we're quoting dictionaries now are we? Well :

pro·fes·sion·al·ism (prə-fěsh'ə-nə-lĭz'əm) Pronunciation Key
n.
Professional status, methods, character, or standards.

So it includes the character and standards (ie way of behaving) of a professional? Glad we had to look in a dictionary to realise that one!

 

[Vault Dweller]

Why? I've heard enough empty statements for one day. Care to actually explain why?

Because people should not be treated like things.

Where is the proof that I treated Patrick "like things"?

Conversation transcript is not just some server log, that you can dump on wherever you want. There are two individuals involved.

And?

In this particular case, it is clear that one of the individuals did not want the conversation to be published.

And?

It's pretty clear, for example, what kinda game the Fallout fans want, yet it doesn't stop the gaming media from disregarding their wishes, and it doesn't stop Patrick from gloating about it.

Therefore, you knew the guy did not want for this thing to be published, but you did it anyway, simply because you wanted to.

And?

You are not providing any arguments, btw, you are simply stating what happened.

Actually, it's pretty easy to treat people you like with respect. It's when you're dealing with the other kinds your personal ethic standards really show.

So what are they? The personal ethic standards, I mean.

Who is all this for, anyway? You're saying that this is about gaming journalism, but who in here really thinks that "professional" gaming journalism isn't screwed up? It's self-evident. Open IGN, GameSpy, GameSpot, etc., and it jumps at you.

You'll be surprised. I've so many "Bethesda won't screw up FO3 because the media's backlash would be terrifying!" arguments, that it's not even funny. And yes, I saw them here, on NMA, on DAC, on RPG Watch...

 

[Naked Ninja]

You must be in sales, you sidestep like a pro. Stop trying to counter each line on its own and counter the point in its entirety.

 

[MF]

You must be in sales, you sidestep like a pro. Stop trying to counter each line on its own and counter the point in its entirety.

Now we're getting somewhere. Ad hominems are the only way to 'solve' this argument, because it was a personal attack to begin with. It's completely pointless. Some random internet moron -Gamespy or not, it's not like working for Gamespy gives you any kind of status when you're doing your groceries- got called on his bullshit and took things personal. VD is investing time in it. I can't say that it's not entertaining, but all the talk of morals, higher goals, professionalism and the 'state of the industry' is trite.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Forwarding a private email conversation around the office because you disagree with the other persons point of view...

Not because I disagreed with his point of view.

It was an act of ego stroking spite. Don't act like this is a comparable act. It did not need to be done for IronTower, for your company. You did it for yourself, for the emotional payoff.

What payoff?

Please don't paint yourself the matyr, it's laughable.

Please don't make shit up and pretend that I did it.

Your point proves what? That Compaq execs acted unprofessionally (and just plain stupidly) and the company suffered for it? How does that prove your point? Like I said, that kind of behavior will over time eat a company from the inside. It isn't sustainable.

My point proves that your naive picture of how the business world works doesn't match the reality.

And what makes you think that anyone else acting unprofessionally justifies you doing it? You demand professional behavior from game journalists? Start with yourself.

I will, once I figure out how posting a private conversation is somehow relevant to my duties as a gaming journalist.

pro·fes·sion·al·ism (prə-fěsh'ə-nə-lĭz'əm) Pronunciation Key
n.
Professional status, methods, character, or standards.

So it includes the character and standards (ie way of behaving) of a professional? Glad we had to look in a dictionary to realise that one!

Me too. Now all that's left to do is to agree on what these standards are. For example, if I won't say "hello" to my neighbor, am I acting unporfessional as a journalist? That is the real question!

 

[Vault Dweller]

A question!

Let's say that I'm having a conversation with a game developer and he tells me something mind blowing. Some info about the company's unofficial motto and design philosophy or some info about publishers fucking a game in development up.

As a gaming journalist, what is the right - professionally - course of action? To say nothing to my audience and thus fail to provide critical info that people should know or to make the info public, which would fulfill my duty as a journalist but would breach someone's trust.

I'm genuinely curious what everyone thinks.

 

[Naked Ninja]

Come now, enough dodging. Your verbal acrobatics impresses only the codex fanboys who already worship you.

Answer the question. Have you or have you not done something as I just described. Don't tell me what you did or did not do "for the company". I don't care, it's not the same at all.

I want to know if you have performed a personally motivated, completely unneccessary act in a similar vain which violates the common expectation of privacy and trust between two people, in your professional working environment.

Time to put those cards on the table mate. Prove you aren't just posing with all the "I can do whatever I want!!!" power trip rhetoric. Prove that this isn't just something you did because the anonymous internet shields you.

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

See you at page ten.

And just to put my opinion into the meatgrinder, isn't it possible for a "private conversation" (we're on the internet here folks....nothing is really private) to have varying degrees of confidentiality? I mean, if someone confides in you for help in a more "personal" matter...then yes...it should be given full privacy. But when someone does what our friend Patrick does....it's just asinine.

"Oh....hey....indie games have no profesionalism, hardly deliver, and pretty much suck. Also I'm much smarter and more knowledgeable about everything because I have credentials and I don't need explanations. And, oh yeah, don't tell anybody about all this stuff I said."

It's pretty much a dirty straw man, but it illustrates the point well enough. You can't talk trash, so to say, and then expect somebody not to mention it.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Yeah, VD, grow up, get a grip, get a life and act like a human being for once.

Look - the guy's married with kids

Well, I'm relieved. I thought VD was a dirty commie but it turns out he's just a creepy pedophile.

 

[Naked Ninja]

He violated a trust. Plain and simple. Its unethical. You can paint words around it all you like. Makes no difference, nor does all the codex rhetoric in the world.

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

You must be in sales, you sidestep like a pro. Stop trying to counter each line on its own and counter the point in its entirety.

You must be in management and a huge believer in synergies. Unfortunately, a bunch of worthless sentences a greater whole do not make.

But hey, I love your idea of professional journalism, I really do. More journalists should stick to it. Nixon would be a much happier man, for one.

Because people should not be treated like things. That is the basis for ethics.

That would be one of the tenets of Kantian ethics. There are plenty of other views. Plus, if VD believes that telling the truth (as a reporter or not) is a categorical imperative, he'd be utterly ethical in doing what he did.

Now for the bigger question -- what the fuck are you people smoking? Has anyone even read the (now 16-page long) thread? Have you read the actual PM? This fellow came in here not as a sign of rapprochement, but to excuse his moron of a friend 'cause -- hey, I'm sure you agree -- not all niggers are bad, just the ones who steal bikes, so it's clearly hyperbole. He got called on that bullshit (he got called on a lot of that), and quickly changed the subject, doing so every fucking time he lost an argument without admitting defeat. He clamped down on technicalities like a fucking young earth creationist, and assumed (rather triumphantly) that he was the victor of every single debate he lost. He continued to whine about being misquoted, even after VD apologised for it, and ignored the actual argument; apparently, the idea that something being "one of the best" puts it in the same fucking ballpark as "the best" is a really difficult idea to grasp. Likewise, he adopted the mantra of "unprofessionalism" when it came to VD's preview, repeating time after time that he let the developer write it for him, even though the idea that it's far more professional and honest than anything Gamespy ever churned out was widely agreed upon by everyone else partaking in the bloody thread. The mantra stayed, even after the argument was ripped to shreds; once again, he clamped down on the "placeholder text" bit, even after it was explained to him (and it shouldn't have to be explained to a "gaming journalist") that the question was more than justified given the current state of game dialogue.

Meanwhile, we get bombarded with muddled philosophies about how a critical preview can cost jobs and GameSpy readers are too fucking stupid to read a review after a negative preview (so that critical previews are right out), proving that he and his site are everything that's wrong with the fucking industry. The PM is just the icing on the cake, lifting any doubts any thinking individual may have had about him and his intentions. It'd be unforgivable not to post it. You keep going on about professionalism and corporations and working environments, and hey -- you know what? No one I know would consider working with such a weasel. It takes a special kind of corporate culture to foster stupidity and willful ignorance to such an extent, something Gamespy seems to provide in spades. If Rausch wasn't proof enough, our friend Patrick gives plenty.

But hey, I'm sure you're all sad about the fact that no one decided to cup his fucking balls in awe of meeting an actual gaming journalist, so that he'd throw you a bone and "advertise" your game. If he and his kind hadn't reduced the fucking industry to what it is right now, there would be no need for indie games in the first place. Sure, believe what you want. If it makes you feel better to think that you're the "voice of reason" here, so be it. It doesn't make you right, just like Patrick's unwavering belief in his infallibility didn't make him right, either. Want my advice though? Lay off the fucking doobie.

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

He violated a trust. Plain and simple. Its unethical. You can paint words around it all you like. Makes no difference, nor does all the codex rhetoric in the world.

He's not a bloody priest.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Answer the question. Have you or have you not done something as I just described. Don't tell me what you did or did not do "for the company". I don't care, it's not the same at all.

Time to put those cards on the table mate. Prove you aren't just posing with all the "I can do whatever I want!!!" power trip rhetoric. Prove that this isn't just something you did because the anonymous internet shields you.

It's like asking "do you or do you not write sarcastic reviews in your line of work when you are not shielded by the internet? Hmm?" I made the discussion public to show you what a real journalist looks like. I have no reason to do similar things at work and show someone what a real accountant, for example, looks like. However, I've done things that someone like you would consider unethical and unprofessional, and I've done them openly, without hiding behind anonymity. That's the best answer I can give you.

He violated a trust. Plain and simple. Its unethical.

What trust? If I PM you, telling you what a wonderful day it is today and that I had a donut for lunch, would posting it openly violate my trust?

Robur PM'ed me some stuff and asked to keep it confidential. I did. Several Fallout 3 developers told me plenty of stuff about the game. I kept it confidential. I was given Van Buren demo a long time ago and asked to keep it confidential. I did. I had quite a few conversation with many developers. I've never posted anything because the matters were truly confidential. This case is different. You can cry "u broked his trust!!! it was privaet!!!" all you want, but without facts explaining and proving the damage and harm, it's kinda pointless and silly.

 

[Kraszu]

I think that it would be unprofessional from VD to not "publish" that pm, as an journalist. It has important information to his readers (connected whit what he writes about).

I want to know if you have performed a personally motivated, completely unneccessary act in a similar vain which violates the common expectation of privacy and trust between two people, in your professional working environment.

What makes it personal? You don't see connection between what that site covers and gaming journalism? It was covered in many previous news, many of them criticise reviews of other people and gaming journalism in general.

I was surprise that he publish them becouse of AoD. Gamespy would not cover his game most likely anyway through, like it does not cover other indie games.

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

Gamespy would not cover his game most likely anyway through, like it does not cover other indie games.

Yeah, but only 'cause indie developers are unprofessional.

 

[Koby]

"that you've forgotten some of the basic principles of business" – that would be making money, in case you are wandering, not being. . . honest?!?

"Do I look like your mother? You have google, look up "ethics", "courtesy" " – ethics got nothing to do with courtesy, two completely different things. And on top of that, you seem to be merging it with professionalism as well, it like in your head all the three are joint at the hip.

If you had ANY idea of in just how many fields going straight to the throat is common practice – big cooperation, politics, academia, the media, fuck, you are just down right clueless.

"Companies can't function if even simple things like communicating via email degenerates into an ego contest or a spite trip. It would be impossible for any company to make even the slightest progress otherwise, don't be silly." I have met, personally, company owners that do exactly that, they even encourage that behavior to some extent, and I have news for you, it seems to be working, don’t get my wrong, that would be a bad place to work in, but these companions are doing quite well, I had the misfortune of working in a company like that, wake up fool.

" Your point proves what? That Compaq execs acted unprofessionally (and just plain stupidly) and the company suffered for it? How does that prove your point? Like I said, that kind of behavior will over time eat a company from the inside. It isn't sustainable" – sadly, my experience prove otherwise.

 

[serch]

Last time I checked, smart, frail boys tended to kick the groins of big, dumb ones.

 

[Koby]

Likewise, he adopted the mantra of "unprofessionalism" when it came to VD's preview, repeating time after time that he let the developer write it for him, even though the idea that it's far more professional and honest than anything Gamespy ever churned out was widely agreed upon by everyone else partaking in the bloody thread. The mantra stayed, even after the argument was ripped to shreds; once again, he clamped down on the "placeholder text" bit, even after it was explained to him (and it shouldn't have to be explained to a "gaming journalist") that the question was more than justified given the current state of game dialogue.

I have to admit that I have never seen such an attempts to mis-read a piece of writing, I mean he really went all the way out to mis-interpreted and mis-understand it, he tried SO hard, and failed so badly, that eventually HE looked stupid trying to come off as teh journalist. It was pathetic.

 

[AnalogKid]

Look - the guy's married with kids

Well, I'm relieved. I thought VD was a dirty commie but it turns out he's just a creepy pedophile.

Hmm, I don't want to mis-quote anybody (OH, NOES :shock, but I think it said "married with kids", not "married to kids". Sorry, but it seems like you've gotta stay with dirty (unprofessional, of course) commie.

Unless you have PM'd pictures you'd like to share?