A conversation with a gaming journalist

[kris]

I don't know about "professionalism," but publishing private conversation is just a shitty thing to do. It's a matter of ethics. Not game developer or journalist ethics, but human ethics.

Entirerly depends on the content IMO.

This Patrick gives the impression of having some issues as in feeling obliged to prove he is right even thoguh he doesn't have the ability too. Its all a little sad and I feel he have been given maybe a bit to much bad feelings, no matter how selfinflicted they where.

 

[Hazelnut]

I bet Chris will be devastated when he learns that I made this email private. He should have never trusted me like that..

Even if its innocuous you really should ask the other party first. Its a courtesy at the very least.

It is courteous, and I think that I would always ask, or at the very least say that they're being posted publicly unless the guy could give a really good reason why he doesn't want it posted. (other than ego etc) I guess VD felt that deadaris didn't merit that courtesy.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

Pure gold, Patrick. Thanks.

Pure gold indeed.

 

[Naked Ninja]

Wow, that was pretty fucking childish VD, whether you're a journalist or not, just as an adult human being. So he dismissed your arguments and left and to feel better you posted it on the codex, where you can have a hearty round of backslapping and fapping by your pals?

Posting private conversations online in an attempt to validate your ego is pretty weak dude. His points were all correct. Grow the hell up. Maybe you've grown so used to the "pack of howler monkeys" mentality of the Codex that you've forgotten some of the basic principles of business (or generally interacting in a respectful manner with normal human beings). That kind of thing is just low by any standards.

 

[Micmu]

Yeah, VD, grow up, get a grip, get a life and act like a human being for once.

P.S.: You LIED about being a developer. You're just a marketing & sales vice president. So who's really making the AoD?

 

[Shagnak]

Yeah, VD, grow up, get a grip, get a life and act like a human being for once.

Look - the guy's married with kids, has an important job, always seems to be doing 'Codex things, and somehow still has time to be making a pretty darn complicated computer game.

I don't know where he gets the time. He's not a human being. He's an alien! :shock:

 

[Micmu]

He's French, actually.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Wow, that was pretty fucking childish VD, whether you're a journalist or not, just as an adult human being. So he dismissed your arguments and left and to feel better you posted it on the codex, where you can have a hearty round of backslapping and fapping by your pals?

Actually, he didn't leave yet. He sent me yet another PM trying to convince me that I lied and that job is something that you are being paid for. He uses dictionary links to prove his points, but he takes the first meaning, disregarding lines like:

"anything a person is expected or obliged to do; duty; responsibility: It is your job to be on time."

...you've forgotten some of the basic principles of business...

Please teach me about the principles of business, o wise one.

 

[Naked Ninja]

Still trying to beat that horse hey?

Do I look like your mother? You have google, look up "ethics", "courtesy", "treating others with respect". Which includes not sharing private conversations with a group of people just so you can have a good laugh over it.

It doesn't matter how many Codexers fap over your "clever wit" VD, you acted in an unprofessional, immature way. And I'm willing to bet this isn't the kind of thing you do in your professional life either.

But then again power does turn some people into spiteful, petulant children, so maybe I'm wrong there.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Do I look like your mother?

How the fuck should I know? Post your picture and I'll tell you. You certainly sound like her.

You have google, look up "ethics", "courtesy", "treating others with respect". Which includes not sharing private conversations with a group of people just so you can have a good laugh over it.

It's not about having a good laugh, but I didn't expect *you* to understand. As for concepts like courtesy and respect, they went out of the proverbial window when Patrick started typing his bitter rants. Respect should be earned, not freely given.

And I'm willing to bet this isn't the kind of thing you do in your professional life either.

Why are you willing to bet on it? Just curious what your reasons are (i.e. what your fantasies about the business world are)?

 

[sah]

I've looked at these PMs that were "leaked". Quite interesting and I see why they were posted in the first place, but I will have to agree with Naked Ninja here as far as courtesy is concerned.

As for concepts like courtesy and respect, they went out of the proverbial window when Patrick started typing his bitter rants. Respect should be earned, not freely given.

Do people have to earn not having their private conversations published?

 

[Joe Krow]

If he wanted to have a public debate with you he could have posted it as a thread. He chose to send a private message directly to you with the expectation that you would, at the very least, ask before sharing it. Common coutesy. In that respect you are wrong.

I also would not say you have a job as a journalist. This is your hobby and you have taken it quite far but you should not claim to work in the industry. Your job (at least on this site) is not at all simular to his. He writes to sell advertising. You write what amounts to a blog.

 

[sheek]

You know you guys are starting sound like Wikipedians. Who gives a fuck? Patrick didn't have anything to say, Patrick was annoying, now Patrick is gone. Good riddance.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Do people have to earn not having their private conversations published?

Everything should be earned.

Since this issue keeps coming up, here are some simple rules that I follow:

1. Don't tell / write / send something you are not prepared to see surfaced later on.
2. If you absolutely must share something confidential with someone, clearly state that this conversation is private & confidential and not to be shared. The rule #1 can still kick in, but at least then you'd have a real reason to be pissed off at someone, instead of mumbling something about ethics and lack of professionalism.
3. Don't expect to be threated with respect, when you gave none.

If he wanted to have a public debate with you he could have posted it as a thread. He chose to send a private message directly to you with the expectation...

You are quite a mind reader, Joe.

I also would not say you have a job as a journalist. This is your hobby and you have taken it quite far but you should not claim to work in the industry. Your job (at least on this site) is not at all simular to his. He writes to sell advertising. You write what amounts to a blog.

But it's not a blog, Joe. It's a well developed and well known website. A lot of work has been put into it by those who founded it. I can't just leave one day, even though it's tempting at times. I have a duty, I have responsibilities. In other words, it's a job, whether you and Patrick like it or not.

I do agree that he writes to sell advertisement, in which case he's the one who shouldn't be claiming to be a journalist.

 

[Joe Krow]

You know you guys are starting sound like Wikipedians. Who gives a fuck? Patrick didn't have anything to say, Patrick was annoying, now Patrick is gone. Good riddance.

That would have been fine to say in the original thread. This one is all about stroking VDs ego.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Still trying to beat that horse hey?

Do I look like your mother? You have google, look up "ethics", "courtesy", "treating others with respect".

I'm pretty sure you're not VD's mum but are you sure you're not Patrick? I mean, you've made a statement that would appear to make you "all knowing" about the field of business and when asked to prove it, you ask him to Google it? Was that what they taught you in the Patrick school of business? "Man, I don't have to prove this to you."

Why can't I use a line like that? Sorry, we're right. We don't have to prove anything. We're in the know and you're not. Conversation over. Oh wait, that tactic doesn't actually work. Oh well. It was worth a shot.

But then again power does turn some people into spiteful, petulant children, so maybe I'm wrong there.

Hrmm... Maybe he is your mum VD?

Do people have to earn not having their private conversations published?

If they want to continue the argument in private because they're too ashamed to show their face in public? I think so. Sure, Private Messages are supposed to be private but do I give a shit? Nope. Not when it's Patrick and he's continuing the same inane argument.

 

[Vault Dweller]

You know you guys are starting sound like Wikipedians. Who gives a fuck? Patrick didn't have anything to say, Patrick was annoying, now Patrick is gone. Good riddance.

That would have been fine to say in the original thread. This one is all about stroking VDs ego.

No, this one is about showing you how a gaming journalist thinks, behaves, and operates. In other words, it's an indepth explanation of why you can't trust mainstream previews and reviews and why you can't expect anything from professional journalists.

 

[Kraszu]

That pm was about haw game journalism works, not about his private life. If somebody see "cut your nose to split" good analogy to "not selling out" then well it tells allot about him and reality of his work.

I also would not say you have a job as a journalist. This is your hobby and you have taken it quite far but you should not claim to work in the industry. Your job (at least on this site) is not at all simular to his. He writes to sell advertising. You write what amounts to a blog.

1. A regular activity performed in exchange for payment, especially as one's trade, occupation, or profession.
2. A position in which one is employed.
3.
a. A task that must be done: Washing the windows is not my job.
b. A specified duty or responsibility. See Synonyms at task.
4.
a. A specific piece of work to be done for a set fee: an expensive repair job.
b. The object to be worked on.
c. Something resulting from or produced by work.

We could say that he (deadairis) meant something else he meant professional journalism where we need ads from publishers, . In that sense yes VD is not professional journalist, and he said that before in the same threat, but he didn't lie that it is his job. So it was misunderstand. What deadairis made from it was just pathetic through.

 

[Amasius]

No, this one is about showing you how a gaming journalist thinks, behaves, and operates. In other words, it's an indepth explanation of why you can't trust mainstream previews and reviews and why you can't expect anything from professional journalists.

As if we needed further evidence. :wink:

Its telling that not even some of our resident dumbfucks jumped in to defend the weasel just to stir some trouble up.

Better late than never, eh?

 

[Naked Ninja]

So, VP of Marketing guy, in your business day you engage in a private conversation, via email, with a co-worker. They say something you disagree with, blah blah whatever.

So you copy the whole thing into a big email and send it to the entire company, every department, clerks, secretaries, whatever. Does this make you :

A) Unprofessional and just plain childish.
B) The height of professionalism.

Now, this might be what you are like IRL. Some businessmen are powerful enough to act like toddlers in cribs and get away with it. But for most people thats the kind of bridge burning which screws over your chances of people wanting to work with you. A concept you perfectly demonstrated in your converstion with Patrick! :D Its highly amusing the way you kept claiming to be a professional while in the exact same sentence proving the opposite. Irony ftw.

Since this issue keeps coming up, here are some simple rules that I follow:

Thats nice. But the world doesn't operate according to VDs Rules To Live By. Basic courtesy and manners are the oil which keeps the business world moving.

Sure, Private Messages are supposed to be private but do I give a shit? Nope. Not when it's Patrick and he's continuing the same inane argument.

Thats what being unprofessional IS. Throwing out the rules of common courtesy because you don't feel like abiding by them. You sir are not a professional. And neither is VD. His preaching about how game journalists behave is ironic in the extreme. Glass houses and all lads.

 

[galsiah]

Dear lord.
Just to remind people, this was the content of the first PMs:

Patrick: [polite comment]
...
Patrick: And as for double standards, you're right: Established companies do get coverage based on screens. We know those games will ever see the light of day, mostly.
Indie games, we know those games never will, mostly.
...
Patrick: [argument he'd made about 10 times publicly]

That hardly shows him in a bad light (next to the original thread).

Then he starts this chain with:

You know, I wrote everything I wrote to you under the assumption that you wouldn't be trustworthy enough to keep it private, but hoping that I would be wrong.

A statement that he hoped for the previous PMs to be posted (even though they contained nothing particularly new). Since he hoped for those to be made public, isn't it reasonable that he hoped/expected these to be too? VD simply complied with those hopes.

I probably wouldn't publish PMs without permission, but this is hardly an important instance of that. The originals contained nothing new/controversial/surprising. I also probably wouldn't be quite so face-spiting if I had a game to publicise - but it's nonetheless something of a comfort to see that VD isn't going anywhere near that slippery slope (whatever the questionable wisdom of such a stance).

 

[Vault Dweller]

So, VP of Marketing guy, in your business day you engage in a private conversation, via email, with a co-worker. They say something you disagree with, blah blah whatever.

So you copy the whole thing into a big email and send it to the entire company, every department, clerks, secretaries, whatever. Does this make you :

A) Unprofessional and just plain childish.
B) The height of professionalism.

My job is to make sure that sales numbers are going up. Month after month after month. I can do whatever the fuck I want, but as long as them numbers are going up, I'm the the height or professionalism. Spiritual leader I'm not.

If my job was to make sure that private conversations remain private, then your position would be correct.

...screws over your chances of people wanting to work with you. A concept you perfectly demonstrated in your converstion with Patrick! :D

Yeah, Patrick was dying to work with me and other indie developers. A real journalist this boy was.

Thats nice. But the world doesn't operate according to VDs Rules To Live By. Basic courtesy and manners are the oil which keeps the business world moving.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever seen from you. Profit and utter lack of anything resembling morals and ethics are "the oil which keeps the business world moving".

 

[Joe Krow]

You know, I wrote everything I wrote to you under the assumption that you wouldn't be trustworthy enough to keep it private, but hoping that I would be wrong.

A statement that he hoped for the previous PMs to be posted (even though they contained nothing particularly new). Since he hoped for those to be made public, isn't it reasonable that he hoped/expected these to be too? VD simply complied with those hopes.

Mind Reader: Actually, he was hoping they would not be made public.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

Unrelated to the question whether you are right or not:

I hate your style of ripping the authors post into single sentences and then replying with a one-liner to it.
Ever thought about writing a complete paragraph to answer peoples post? Geeze, what is it that causes you to use this style? I dont think its lacking intelligence, so what is it? Do you just like to take the easy way out? Lacking language skills? I dunnp. It just seems annoying...

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

I hate your style of ripping the authors post into single sentences and then replying with a one-liner to it.

Like this?

Ever thought about writing a complete paragraph to answer peoples post?

Sure I have.

Geeze, what is it that causes you to use this style? I dont think its lacking intelligence, so what is it? Do you just like to take the easy way out? Lacking language skills? I dunnp. It just seems annoying...

To be honest, I do stuff like that a lot because it's effective. It allows you to easily convey what part of the person's argument you are responding to and when. It also just seems to seperate the argument more and make it a little more pointed. And a lot of times the paragraph method is less clear and there might be redundancies in the argument.

Just saying.