Incline 0 A.D. The Open Source RTS

[MoLAoS]

0AD, the open source, cross platform, historical RTS is now running a crowdfunding campaign on IndieGoGo in order to pay a programmer to work on the game for 1-2 years, plus other stuff, full time. If the campaign succeeds this could mean that a beta is only a year or so out. And maybe the game will be finished in the next year, at least Part One, which is 500BC to 1BC. Part Two being 1AD to 500AD.

Before you get clever, they know 0AD is not a real year, and they explain the name.

The following is a link to their announcement post:
http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/i...pic=17557&st=0

Here is a direct link to the campaign:
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/su...strategy-game/

0 A.D. being open source and written in JS means that if you don't like certain parts of the gameplay you can change it to your liking while keeping the amazing graphical quality. Its probably the best looking open source RTS out there and looks better than many commercial titles.

 

[Johannes]

I doubt the game will ever be as good as AoE2, unfortunately.

 

[MoLAoS]

I doubt the game will ever be as good as AoE2, unfortunately.

I actually never played the AoE games beyond a demo disc that also had Blitzkrieg or something.

What do you think will prevent it from being as good as AoE 2? The new game mechanics, the engine? Certainly not the graphics.

 

[FeelTheRads]

You're talking too much about those graphics, really. Not that they're not good looking, but they're not what's supposed to make it a good game.

 

[Ivar the Boner]

I doubt the game will ever be as good as AoE2, unfortunately.

I actually never played the AoE games beyond a demo disc that also had Blitzkrieg or something.

What do you think will prevent it from being as good as AoE 2? The new game mechanics, the engine? Certainly not the graphics.

Yes, the graphics are certainly most important fucking thing in strategy games...

 

[MoLAoS]

You're talking too much about those graphics, really. Not that they're not good looking, but they're not what's supposed to make it a good game.

Its just that for open source projects, gameplay isn't as critical because you can just change it yourself. Well, I guess you need to be competent in at least JS first in the case of 0AD. Graphics programming is much harder, from a purely technical standpoint, than general gameplay is. I guess my mistake is thinking of it as a competent programmer rather than an end user.

 

[MoLAoS]

I doubt the game will ever be as good as AoE2, unfortunately.

I actually never played the AoE games beyond a demo disc that also had Blitzkrieg or something.

What do you think will prevent it from being as good as AoE 2? The new game mechanics, the engine? Certainly not the graphics.

Yes, the graphics are certainly most important fucking thing in strategy games...

Graphics are important to a lot of people, in general I personally don't care about them, but for a wide audience they mean a lot.

In any case I see you ironically picked the least important part of my post when complaining about what I appeared, but didn't intend, to be presenting as the most important part of strategy gamers.

The actual question being what's wrong with it compared to AoE?

Also graphical capability is relevant to open source games for a whole different reason. When 3D modellers/artists/animators consider what open source projects to contribute to graphics is the most important thing to them in general. So having the ability to generate high quality graphics is often the best option to avoid "programmer art". Modders also often consider graphics, both because they themselves may want a particular visual style for their mod but also because good graphics mean they have a better chance to recruit artists, it doesn't only benefit the programmers of the main project.

 

[felipepepe]

Any retard can change the gameplay, but how many people can make it as good as AoE 2? On that aspect, graphics are way easier to do, and they don't mean shit if the game is bad.

 

[MoLAoS]

Any retard can change the gameplay, but how many people can make it as good as AoE 2? On that aspect, graphics are way easier to do, and they don't mean shit if the game is bad.

The art assets are easy to make maybe, but programming a quality custom graphics engine is incredibly hard.

You still haven't explained what was so good about AoE. I know the developers of 0AD are big fans of it but I've never been into AoE myself.

 

[Ivar the Boner]

I doubt the game will ever be as good as AoE2, unfortunately.

I actually never played the AoE games beyond a demo disc that also had Blitzkrieg or something.

What do you think will prevent it from being as good as AoE 2? The new game mechanics, the engine? Certainly not the graphics.

Yes, the graphics are certainly most important fucking thing in strategy games...

Graphics are important to a lot of people, in general I personally don't care about them, but for a wide audience they mean a lot.

In any case I see you ironically picked the least important part of my post when complaining about what I appeared, but didn't intend, to be presenting as the most important part of strategy gamers.

The actual question being what's wrong with it compared to AoE?

Also graphical capability is relevant to open source games for a whole different reason. When 3D modellers/artists/animators consider what open source projects to contribute to graphics is the most important thing to them in general. So having the ability to generate high quality graphics is often the best option to avoid "programmer art". Modders also often consider graphics, both because they themselves may want a particular visual style for their mod but also because good graphics mean they have a better chance to recruit artists, it doesn't only benefit the programmers of the main project.

I picked it up because you stress this aspect a lot. I would rather hear what would make this game better than, let's say AoE 2. Because you know, graphics matter only at first glance, after a an hour graphics that makes you "know what you are looking at" are enough. So, what exacatly this game propse that other RTS'es don't have?

 

[MoLAoS]

Well, the main thing is that its an open source RTS, or at least that is my personal interest. Other people may not care about supporting high quality open source projects.

I like that it's totally free, works on all platforms, and I can change whatever I want, compile, and have gameplay tailored to my taste if I so choose.

The specific gameplay of the game that the main developers decide on is not as much of a concern to me as it is to others.

For people who don't or can't program, its as moddable as an RTS can possibly be. Part of getting to beta is adding a solid scripting system, although almost all the gameplay is itself done with Javascript embedded in a C++ engine that takes care of the performance intensive stuff, which means pretty much everything can be modified easily and without the pitfalls of writing C++.

The game is free, due to being open source, which means if you want to play a game with friends they don't have pay for a copy, they just download, play with you, decide if they like it and if they don't they don't blow 20-60$ like a commercial title.

Due to being open source there are multiple AIs, you can write your own as well, which means lots of different experiences. Modders can rewrite the gameplay easily as well which means its likely to have lots of potential gameplay styles if I don't like one I can play something else.

 

[Ivar the Boner]

Well, the main thing is that its an open source RTS, or at least that is my personal interest. Other people may not care about supporting high quality open source projects.

I like that it's totally free, works on all platforms, and I can change whatever I want, compile, and have gameplay tailored to my taste if I so choose.

The specific gameplay of the game that the main developers decide on is not as much of a concern to me as it is to others.

For people who don't or can't program, its as moddable as an RTS can possibly be. Part of getting to beta is adding a solid scripting system, although almost all the gameplay is itself done with Javascript embedded in a C++ engine that takes care of the performance intensive stuff, which means pretty much everything can be modified easily and without the pitfalls of writing C++.

The game is free, due to being open source, which means if you want to play a game with friends they don't have pay for a copy, they just download, play with you, decide if they like it and if they don't they don't blow 20-60$ like a commercial title.

Due to being open source there are multiple AIs, you can write your own as well, which means lots of different experiences. Modders can rewrite the gameplay easily as well which means its likely to have lots of potential gameplay styles if I don't like one I can play something else.

Will it run on windows 98? (I'm not fucking kidding).

 

[MoLAoS]

According to the developers, who took like 5 minutes to answer my quite complicated questions about Win98 support, 0AD was working at one point using Windows2000, but there are some API changes in .NET between 2.0 and 3.0 that mean any Windows version older than Windows2000 that mean you must be able to support VS8 compilation to target Win98. According to the 0AD devs, it would require custom ASM and some other stuff.

A programmer who wanted to spend a few weeks or more on changes could roll back stuff involving post .NET 2.0 features and allow 0AD to run on Win98 but microsoft does not officially support OS versions that old and it would be a huge hassle.

So barring some sort of dedicated Win98 C++ programmer making changes it probably can't run on anything older than Windows2000 and for the main development line the major developers themselves only plan to have guaranteed support for WindowsXP and later.

I don't imagine a computer still running 98 would even be fast enough to run the game.

Someone did manage to port it to Android, but it wasn't as high quality as the computer version. The guy who did it moved on before making the UI really usable. He wasn't a main developer, just some random guy. But it can definitely run on modern tablets if their display is large enough.

 

[FeelTheRads]

We understand what open source means and what free means. This is not IGN or Gamespot you're on.

Yeah, it's open source and with great graphics. Hurray?

You sound like a plant. Are you a plant?

 

[MoLAoS]

I'm not sure what that means specifically so I'll assume no unless you care to clarify.

If its relevant, I'm not a contributor to 0AD and I've posted and participated in several topics that have nothing to do with 0AD or even RTS games.

Back on topic, what's so great about AoE2? I know it was popular but I'm not really sure why. Except maybe some vague references to base building.

 

[mondblut]

RTS genre dying out was one of the few good things to come out of the general gaming decline of 2000s. Good riddance, and don't bring them back.

 

[MoLAoS]

RTS genre dying out was one of the few good things to come out of the general gaming decline of 2000s. Good riddance, and don't bring them back.

You prefer TBS? I assume you like at least some sort of strategy game since this is the strategy game section of the forum.

 

[bot]

RTS genre dying out was one of the few good things to come out of the general gaming decline of 2000s. Good riddance, and don't bring them back.

I wonder what the most popular PC game of the last few years has been. I also wonder: what is the most played game on Steam right now? Oh, that's right. Check yourself before you wreck yourself.

 

[mondblut]

RTS genre dying out was one of the few good things to come out of the general gaming decline of 2000s. Good riddance, and don't bring them back.

I wonder what the most popular PC game of the last few years has been. I also wonder: what is the most played game on Steam right now? Oh, that's right. Check yourself before you wreck yourself.

Wake me up when everybody and their granny starts spamming Starcraft clones on the market again, like it's 1997. As of now, Starcraft is not an RTS, it's a brand. Blizzard could put out a box of tissue labeled as "Starcraft IV", and it still would be the most played game on steam.

 

[mondblut]

RTS genre dying out was one of the few good things to come out of the general gaming decline of 2000s. Good riddance, and don't bring them back.

You prefer TBS? I assume you like at least some sort of strategy game since this is the strategy game section of the forum.

Obviously. Heck, I can even tolerate all kinds of realtime-enabled games, from Total War to Crusader Kings to Combat Mission.

But the "RTS" subgenre proper (aka Dune 2 clones) must die a violent and painful death. They are a fucking Hidden Object Game of strategy genre.

 

[oscar]

While the tech trees sound nice, what makes this different from Age of Empires, Empire Earth, Age of Mythology etc

 

[Karmapowered]

RTS genre dying out was one of the few good things to come out of the general gaming decline of 2000s. Good riddance, and don't bring them back.

You prefer TBS? I assume you like at least some sort of strategy game since this is the strategy game section of the forum.

Obviously. Heck, I can even tolerate all kinds of realtime-enabled games, from Total War to Crusader Kings to Combat Mission.

But the "RTS" subgenre proper (aka Dune 2 clones) must die a violent and painful death. They are a fucking Hidden Object Game of strategy genre.

Since you seem to set Star/Warcraft and the TW apart, I assume that Dark Omen and EU (or other equivalent Paradox games) aren't RTS games either for you.

What about Total Annihilation though, Battle Realms, Red Alert, Cossacks, Dungeon Keeper, Homeworld, etc. ? Heck, I even had fun with mostly unknown titles, like M.A.X., Ground Control, Knights & Merchants, Beasts & Bumpkins or Warrior Kings. These all have a common ancestor with Dune 2 in my mind.

That's a whole chapter of my blissful gamers' childhood, you can't just discard that. What's so bad about those games ? And what are "hidden object" strategy games ?

Genuine question here, before you wonder. You seem to have rather monocled tastes usually, so I am curious.

 

[Bulba]

what's with the obsession with aoe2? it's a terrible rts. Loved the first one through.

 

[mondblut]

What about Total Annihilation though, Battle Realms, Red Alert, Cossacks, Dungeon Keeper, Homeworld, etc. ? Heck, I even had fun with mostly unknown titles, like M.A.X., Ground Control, Knights & Merchants, Beasts & Bumpkins or Warrior Kings. These all have a common ancestor with Dune 2 in my mind.

Red Alert is very obviously an RTS, being a C&C spinoff. Dungeon Keeper has hardly anything in common with the Duneclone genre. The rest, I haven't played. Do they feature base-building, worker-herding, building-bashing crap? Homeworld, I think not. TA and Cossacks, moar liek yes, at least visually. K&M is a Settlers clone, which is a subgenre on its own.

That's a whole chapter of my blissful gamers' childhood, you can't just discard that. What's so bad about those games ? And what are "hidden object" strategy games ?

HOG is what the adventure games have degenerated into when housewives began playing them. I am subtly hinting that the duneclones are equally retard-friendly. Glorified Tower fucking Defense.

 

[Karmapowered]

(snip)

Got your point about HOG games. I am not going to argue about classifications/semantics either.

If you associate the latest facebook/social crapola to the RTS genre (as I think you do), I agree with your sentiment.

FWIW, even if it has been spades that I last played one of the games I mentioned above online, "oldskool" RTS games still have competitions (at international level) and passionate people going for them. By passionate, I mean skilled gamers, that do not shy away from conceiving original tactics, training themselves (to increase their dexterity at the game) and discussing advantages/drawbacks of units/buildings for hours for eternities on some forums. Some would also get paid in the past (not sure if this is still relevant nowadays) if they were good enough to entertain a crowd of equally passionate and demanding fans. These people don't look like a public of housewives fed on "plants vs zombies with SIMS features tower-defence" games to me.

Even if it wasn't the first RTS, Dune 2 deserves credits for being the game that drew a large(r) public to the genre, at least on PC. Dune 2 may very well suck by modern standards (you can play it online by the way), but other games that followed it still remain brillant and unchallenged gaming experiences to me.

Anyway, I don't want to come out as overly defensive, pretend that RTS is superior to TBS (which I largely prefer) or find justifications to the obvious decline of the genre like you've pointed out, just explaining why your post surprised me.