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Completed Let's become daemon cops in Unavowed (Finished)

Jaedar

Arcane
Patron
Joined
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Messages
9,838
Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Let us force the dryad to be nice
 

MRY

Wormwood Studios
Developer
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
5,703
Location
California
lightbane I've never played Fallout 3. It certainly doesn't sound good. But if the purpose of a game is to engage and entertain players, then it's hard to say a game is poorly designed/poorly written when it does a better job of engaging and entertaining players than prior games. Obviously, it's a tragedy if someone wants to make games with complex, challenging gameplay and winds up making a walking simulator instead; it can also be annoying if someone exhumes the corpse of a franchise and uses its skin for something inauthentic. But Unavowed is the game Dave always wanted to make, he's not tarnishing someone else's franchise, and people love it. That doesn't mean the game is immune from criticism. It's just that the criticism is more in the vein of "WEG has lost me" than "WEG has lost the script."
 

lightbane

Arcane
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
10,158
ve never played Fallout 3. It certainly doesn't sound good. But if the purpose of a game is to engage and entertain players, then it's hard to say a game is poorly designed/poorly written when it does a better job of engaging and entertaining players than prior games

You better not then. If you loved the previous games, you'll abhor the newest ones for sure. It is a downgrade in every sense. It's practically an Oblivion with Guns mod. The fact that it got so much publicity despite having painful levels of bad writing, tons of bug and more demonstrated the corruption that the game industry's "journalism" has. Also, like every Bethesda game, it requires many mods in order to be played. Moreover, Fallout 4 is even worse.

. Obviously, it's a tragedy if someone wants to make games with complex, challenging gameplay and winds up making a walking simulator instead; it can also be annoying if someone exhumes the corpse of a franchise and uses its skin for something inauthentic.

It's not exactly a walking simulator thankfully, but it is the latter.

. But Unavowed is the game Dave always wanted to make, he's not tarnishing someone else's franchise, and people love it. That doesn't mean the game is immune from criticism. It's just that the criticism is more in the vein of "WEG has lost me" than "WEG has lost the script."

That's a shame, because while catering to the lowest denominator will give you money for sure, it also loses the original charm it had.
Let's see if Dave will also start churning out Unavowed sequels too.
 

MRY

Wormwood Studios
Developer
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
5,703
Location
California
But Dave isn't catering to the lowest denominator; Unavowed is a dialogue-heavy, lore-laden, action-free game with graphics that are neither hip nor cutting edge and a setting that isn't exactly popular (it's not WWII, post-apocalypse, zombie apocalypse, Tolkien fantasy, alien invasion, etc.). He may not be catering to your demographic (and I don't think he's catering to mine), but he's hardly pandering to the mass market. Moreover, I don't think he's pandering at all. I think this is the game he always wanted to make -- he's said so, why not just take him at his word? The more puzzle-oriented stuff he made before was, in anything, the one dictated by external forces (his initial base was the AGS community, AGS lends itself to puzzle-oriented adventures, an Unavowed-style game requires much higher production values, the market hadn't been "trained" sufficiently to accept this as an adventure game, etc.). He's talked about wanting to make a Dresden Files-style RPG-light forever. Just as it turns out that QFG was the result of Sierra suits and AGD technology imposing limits that prevented Hero-U from being made, what Dave has said for years makes me think that the Blackwell era games, not Unavowed, is the place where there was compromise and pandering.

Given vast money, heavy equipment, modern building materials, and a $190 million budget, this is the cathedral of Los Angeles:
cathedral-los-angeles.jpg
Meanwhile, this is the oldest continuously operating Catholic church in California, built in the late 1700s with basically no budget, no machines, etc., etc.:
1280px-Monterey%2C_California_-_Cathedral_of_San_Carlos_Borromeo_%28Royal_Presidio_Chapel%29_-_panoramio.jpg
Sometimes technical constraints are for the best.
 

baud

Arcane
Patron
Joined
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Messages
3,992
Location
Septentrion
RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
"Whoever deals the deathblow is the winner."

This is not the best way to exploit a loophole. Why can't you stab that dryad instead?

Because that's working so well for Kal with an axe, let's do it with a sword instead...

And more importantly, if Codexia can WISH FOR HER TO DIE...

Plothole detected.

Perhaps Kal's death can power a wish powerful enough to kill her, but without dying he can't kill her?
 

baud

Arcane
Patron
Joined
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Messages
3,992
Location
Septentrion
RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
the Blackwell era games, is the place where there was compromise and pandering.

You're saying that in the Blackwell era games, he compromised his vision to pander to the AGS crowd, who expect more puzzles in their games? And so now that he's got a wider audience, that goes beyond them, he can afford to do the game he wants, with less puzzles and more narrative?
 

MRY

Wormwood Studios
Developer
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
5,703
Location
California
Not sure. I do know that the things Dave seems most passionate about when he talks about adventure games are not puzzles, exploration, interesting item interactions, etc.; he's passionate about story, setting, and dialogue. I also know that if you were taking the path of least resistance into adventure game design, you'd use AGS, you'd do a two-button interaction model, you'd have lots of fairly straightforward use X on Y puzzles, etc. So if I had to guess, I'd say that Dave made those kind of adventure games because they were more feasible and allowed him to build up a brand, a staff, mastery of AGS, and a nest-egg. As soon as he had those things, he immediately made Unavowed.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
I don't disagree with the idea that if this is what Dave really wants to do, he's happy doing it, and there's an audience that loves it, then that's success for him. I'm just personally disappointed by - not even the lack of puzzle gameplay, but just how bad the writing and its 'late Bioware' moments are.

I haven't bothered with Bioware for a decade so maybe this is par for the course, but if a game's going to just give me a juvenile visual novel about ghostbusting punctuated by 'CHOICE!' moments, the least it can do is make those moments exciting and well-paced and melodramatic (even if campy). I at least expect to be thrilled by the conceit of a life-and-death struggle where you must kill your ally to outwit your enemy, but you just feel embarrassed at how contrived the writer had to be to get you there.
 

lightbane

Arcane
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
10,158
ust as it turns out that QFG was the result of Sierra suits and AGD technology imposing limits that prevented Hero-U from being made

What's wrong with Hero-U? The Codexian review seemed to imply it was okay? *Notices the Lovecraftian faces in the portraits* Okay, I think I got it now...

Sometimes technical constraints are for the best.

Yeah, limitations are not always bad. See the original Majora's Mask made under a year and the direct result of a bad acid trip.

Because that's working so well for Kal with an axe, let's do it with a sword instead...

Well duh, it was an example. Others provided way better ones, like stomping on a bug to perform a deathblow since the contract didn't specify much.

Perhaps Kal's death can power a wish powerful enough to kill her, but without dying he can't kill her?

That I would understand, but it would need a few lines to be added so that it doesn't seem as forced.

I don't disagree with the idea that if this is what Dave really wants to do, he's happy doing it, and there's an audience that loves it, then that's success for him. I'm just personally disappointed by - not even the lack of puzzle gameplay, but just how bad the writing and its 'late Bioware' moments are.

Agreed.

So now Kalash is dead. Who is the new captin? Please, not Mandana - she's retarded.

Obviously the Player Character, because they're the Chosen One! And the only one with half-a-brain.
 

Reinhardt

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
29,236
Looks like having brain is drawback.
Also PC was possessed only few days ago and total noob who knows nothing about sikrit world and its rules.
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
Staff Member
Joined
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Messages
1,878,405
Location
Djibouti
20180922094330_1.jpg


Kalash has been promptly disappeared from the main menu, Stalin-style.

20180922094542_1.jpg


It was actually a close call between piss and peace. Piss won by 1 vote.

:mlady: I wish for you to be turned to stone. Let the park dogs piss on you.

You better not piss on my plate, you son of a bitch!

20180922094552_1.jpg


20180922094553_1.jpg


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byeeee

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insta-cracking comes as a free bonus I suppose

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eli5.png
Mandy. Kalash wouldn't want...

mandy2.png
Don't you dare tell me what my father wouldn't want! Not even *I* know that. I am sorry, I... no. No, I am NOT sorry. My father is dead.

mandy4.png
I... want to go home now.

boohoo

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Fade to black.

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Another overview of the office.

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Not sure why, but so it goes.

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Here we go again for another round of data mining. Let's go down.

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Bandana storms out of Eli's basement and then into the conference room.

And Codexia can't even pick up any of the shit in the room now that Bandana is not watching :rpgcodex:

Going down.

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Sup.

Eli gazes down at the knife; his brow furrowed with concentration.

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eli1.png
I'm just... scanning the knife again.

Got a loicense fer 'em knoif scans?

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:codexisfor: Didn't you scan the knife already?

eli1.png
Sure. But the scan was incomplete. It takes time for the spell to work fully. But it's been a few days. It might have more data for us. Should only take a few minutes. I'll let you know what I find at the meeting.

:codexisfor: Are you all right?

eli2.png
Me? I'm fine. I'm working. So yeah. I'm all right.

20180922094827_1.jpg


:terminate: I've seen enough cops burn out to know that bottling up feelings is never a good idea.

eli4.png
Heh, burn out. Good one.

eli1.png
*Sigh* You really wanna know how I feel? I want to burn the North Woods to the ground. Then I want to melt that stone dryad into lava. I can do it too. It just takes time... and will. ... Did... I ever tell you about Aldin? My great-grandfather?

you know there could have just been a script check here to change this line into "You remember what I told you about Aldin?" :prosper:

20180922094858_1.jpg


great options, it's not like he talked Codexia's ear off about it :prosper:

:codexisfor: He was some kind of evil fire mage, right?

eli1.png
Evil is... one word for it. He was a terrible force of nature.

He starts pacing around the room.

eli1.png
I always wondered. What made him that way? What made him decide that turning villages of people into ash was a good idea? He lived a long, long time. Long even for a mage. But he was still human. Maybe he suffered one loss too many? Will that be me one day? I don't know.

Aldin finally snapped when he wanted to play The Bard's Tale 4 and it turned out to be bugged to hell and popamole.

20180922094915_1.jpg


:codexisfor: Plenty of people suffer. They don't turn evil because of it.

eli1.png
They don't because they CAN'T. They don't have a mage's power. I do. I've lost a lot of people in my life. I thought I'd come to terms with it, but it never gets easier. Jesus. I'm making this all about me, aren't I? Poor Mandana. Let's... talk about something else.

:codexisfor: I, um, just saw Mandana walk out of your room...

eli3.png
Oh, um, you saw that, huh? Well, no point in denying it.

... is visiting other people's rooms in this building haram? Is everyone gossiping about Codexia datamining everywhere?

:codexisfor: So. You and Mandana are...

eli3.png
What? Oh no, it's nothing like that. Er, well, maybe it IS kind of like that. It's complicated. Well, maybe not that complicated. Just... leave it, okay?

aaaaawkwaaaaaaaaaaaard

:codexisfor: Thanks, Eli. See you at the meeting?

eli1.png
Uh huh. Sure.

Going back up.

20180922094949_1.jpg


I detect conspiracy!

logan1.png
She just needs time. Seems easy enough to give it to her.

vicky1.png
Yeah, well, I feel for her, I really do. But the whole operation was dumb from the start.

Vicki might be the most normie here, but she also happens to be the smartest :negative:

logan1.png
That's hardly fair. I mean, I didn't know Kalash well, but he seemed to know what was what.

vicky1.png
He was cocky. He should have brought us along. We could have helped.

She first wisely observes that it was an obvious trap, now wisely observes that Kalash was dumb. I vote Vicki as new kaptin.

logan1.png
How? She couldn't be killed. Not in the normal way.

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:whiteknight: What is done is done. We still have a job to do.

vicky1.png
Learning from failed ops IS part of the job. I'm just saying. Numbers. We could have made a difference.

logan1.png
Maybe. But wondering "what if" is like growing an orchard in the desert.

Israelis disagree.

vicky1.png
... you mean fruitless?

logan1.png
Uh, yeah. My old sponsor used to say that.

vicky1.png
Jesus. Remind me never to quit drinking.

cheers.png


vicky1.png
Anyway, what now? We having a briefing or what?

20180922095038_1.jpg


:codexisfor: There's still a demon to find.

vicky2.png
Damn right there is.

logan1.png
We'll be here. Just call us when it's time.

Only Mandana left to check up on.

20180922095101_1.jpg


Sup.

Hey, now that Kalash is gone maybe we can finally escape this madhouse.

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:negative:

Mandana stares into the fire. Her expression unreadable.

20180922095146_1.jpg


mandy1.png
Father did not speak much. And yet this room feels so silent without him.

20180922095155_1.jpg


:codexisfor: Do you want to be left alone?

mandy1.png
No, I shed enough tears last night. I will not indulge in more self-pity, not yet. We have a demon to find. Doing otherwise would... dishonor father's sacrifice.

:codexisfor: I wish I got to know Kalash better.

mandy1.png
Getting to know my father would not have been easy, even if he lived. A jinn's mind is... a maze. Twisted and complex. Father was no different. Even I had... difficulty understanding his thoughts. I suppose I am too human.

:codexisfor: I, um, saw you come out of Eli's room.

mandy1.png
Ah. I... cannot deny it. What you saw is true.

:codexisfor: So you and Eli are...

mandy1.png
Yes, although not in the way you imagine. Eli and I are... Oh, it is so DIFFICULT to describe feelings when one is forced to speak the truth.

:hmmm:

mandy1.png
Feelings are so... messy. And complicated. Once in a while, we crave simplicity. Eli and I give that to each other. Once in a while. And last night, I... needed simplicity. Please, let us speak no more of this.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawkwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard

:codexisfor: So what now?

mandy1.png
The oncoming darkness still approaches, regardless of my personal tragedy. If the Unavowed has need of me, I will be here. It is literally the least I can do.

Inb4 it was all a plot by Mandana to seize control.

:codexisfor: Should we start a meeting?

mandy1.png
Yes. It is... time.

20180922095245_1.jpg


logan1.png
You doing all right?

mandy1.png
As... well as can be expected. Thank you. I have not lost sight of our goal. The demon still eludes us.

vicky1.png
But we got a name now, right? What'd you say it was? Mel something?

mel-brooks-dead.jpg


logan1.png
Melkhiresa.

vicky1.png
Great. That's something. So what's our play?

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:codexisfor: So... who's in charge now?

mandy4.png
I do not know. Father never did write any rules of succession. There was... never a need.

Seriously? :lol:

:codexisfor: So nobody is in charge?

logan1.png
Does it matter? I mean... I know I haven't been here long, but we're a team, right? We each bring something different to the group. None of us are better than the rest. It's worked fine so far. Why change that?

It's worked fine indeed :lol:

mandy1.png
Truly spoken. And I agree. A leader will surface if and when we need one. Until then we have work to do.

Power to the people
commie.gif


:codexisfor: The name Melkhiresa. Has anyone heard of it?

mandy1.png
It is not a name I have heard of before.

eli1.png
I did some scrying last night. From the bits I've been able to pick up, the name "Melkhiresa" is associated with... knowledge.

vicky1.png
Knowledge? What does that mean?

eli1.png
I'm as lost as you are. The scry is still ongoing. Hopefully it can tell us more.

:codexisfor: Did you finish your scan on that knife, Eli?

eli1.png
I was hoping you'd ask that. We got lucky last time. The demon's energy signature had degraded so badly it was hard to pinpoint where it had been. But this time? I had its name. That made the scan ten times more precise.

mandy1.png
So you found more locations?

eli4.png
Better. I pinpointed the point of most activity. The demon went all over the city, but there's one place it kept returning to again and again. I was even able to get an exact address.

vicky1.png
And that place is?

eli1.png
300 Henderson Ave. On Staten Island.

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Vicki and Codexia reel back in terror!

vicky4.png
You've gotta be fucking kidding me.

mandy1.png
Does... that address mean something to you?

20180922095423_1.jpg


:baka: That's the Eternox Nightclub!



eli3.png
Really? The place where you got possessed?

vicky4.png
And where I got frigging shot.

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:codexisfor: Why would Melkhiresa go back THERE?

mandy1.png
Indeed. It does seem... remarkably risky.

vicky1.png
Look, I might not know a lot about demons, but the whole "returning to the scene of the crime" thing? It's bullshit. It never actually happens. So what the hell is going on?

20180922095452_1.jpg


:codexisfor: We should get over to the Eternox club and find out what's going on.

vicky1.png
Sure. Ready when you are. But if you get possessed again, this time I'm shooting you first.

mandy3.png
Indeed. It is time we take the fight to the enemy.

That worked great just last night too :lol:

mandy1.png
We are ready to depart when you are.

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:codexisfor: Let's not waste any more time.

eli4.png
Lead the way.

Indeed.

Autobots, roll out!

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Taking the high road.

eli1.png
So Logan. Is KayKay standing still? Or is she moving with the subway?

logan1.png
What do you mean?

eli1.png
She's not actually STANDING on the floor, right? So what's keeping her here? I mean, magic or not, that's just basic physics.

logan1.png
I... don't know. I guess physics don't really apply to dead people? What do you think KayKay?

logan5.png
Heh.

eli1.png
What? What did she say?

logan1.png
Oh, she burped. Loudly.

eli1.png
Huh.

:neveraskedforthis:

Next time we'll be heading back to where it all started. But whom shall we take there? Options are obviously Mandana, Eli, Vicki and Logan, but keep in mind we can't go full normie: we always have to go with at least one oldfag, i.e. Mandana or Eli. So while we can for example take both oldfags, we can't take both Logan and Vicki.
 

Jaedar

Arcane
Patron
Joined
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Messages
9,838
Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Bandana seems to speak some lies this episode. Didn't know she did that.

Anyway, take eli and vicki.
 

cainus-lupus

Novice
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
12
I'm glad I didn't bought this one, thanks to some GoG reviews. Now I know they were true.
You can really see nuBioware influences. I'm having flashbacks from Mass Effect dialogs.

Also prove me wrong, but if you want to go Telltale route you need story to be good. This one is kind of mediocre. Not bad, but not really exceptional.

I vote for Eli and Vicki.
 

lightbane

Arcane
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
10,158
Don't you dare tell me what my father wouldn't want! Not even *I* know that. I am sorry, I... no. No, I am NOT sorry. My father is dead.

It would help if her portrait was more expressive than the usually stoic one Womyndana has.
And Codexia can't even pick up any of the shit in the room now that Bandana is not watchinng

What do you think this is? A classic adventure game? :troll:

Aldin finally snapped when he wanted to play The Bard's Tale 4 and it turned out to be bugged to hell and popamole.

Haven't read a lot about it, but that seems to be the unfortunate case.

h, um, you saw that, huh? Well, no point in denying it.

... is visiting other people's rooms in this building haram? Is everyone gossiping about Codexia datamining everywhere?

I'm actually wondering about why they stutter as if they were teenagers, instead of semi-immortal beings. Besides, Mandana should have some feelings for Eli, otherwise her previous reaction would be pointless. Even then, is it to bad too admit they need some sexy comfort from time to time?

Vicki might be the most normie here, but she also happens to be the smartest

That's why of course she's not in charge.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawkwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard

Makes you wonder if the writer ever dated any girl.

do not know. Father never did write any rules of succession. There was... never a need.

Seriously?

Good to see Kal remained incompetent until death. He was consistent with that.


Power to the people

Because communism works so well, right? You'll see the bloodbath that will start the moment someone has to do the paperwork.

Next time we'll be heading back to where it all started. But whom shall we take there? Options are obviously Mandana, Eli, Vicki and Logan, but keep in mind we can't go full normie: we always have to go with at least one oldfag, i.e. Mandana or Eli. So while we can for example take both oldfags, we can't take both Logan and Vicki.

So your real choice is only one party member after all. Lame. Anyways, we had an all-gril team before, so let's try it with an all-boys party and see if things improve. Therefore, I vote for Eli and Logan.
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
Staff Member
Joined
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Messages
1,878,405
Location
Djibouti
You'll see the bloodbath that will start the moment someone has to do the paperwork.

Yeah, the most important question hasn't been brought up.

Who's gonna read the mission reports?! :argh:
 

Erebus

Arcane
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
4,763
I can understand the desire to make games with more developed characters and stories, but there nevertheless has to be actual challenge or it's no longer a game. The Bioware "CRPGs" have evolved a lot toward interactive movies, but they still have combat, and combat can be a challenge. But what challenge can there be in an adventure game with but a handful of very basic puzzles ? Even those fucking Telltale games I've seen on Youtube seem to be harder.

In some cases, the story, the atmosphere or the setting of a game is so good that it can make you somewhat forget that the whole thing is too easy. But I think we can safely say that the story, the atmosphere and the setting of Unavowed aren't that memorable. The characters aren't awful (especially now that we're rid of the useless old fuck), but certainly not so good as to compensate for the game's lacking elements.


Anyway, I vote for Eli and Logan.


What about using the jig to talk to that other ghost near vicki's basement apartment?

I was wondering the same thing. But we've no reason to suspect that the ghost knows anything that could be of use to us.
 

Sizzle

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
2,471
Even those fucking Telltale games I've seen on Youtube seem to be harder.

They're not.

While it's very, very hard to do, you can get stuck in this game. The same can't be said for a Telltale game, there isn't enough gameplay for that - you always move forward when you exhaust every (extremely limited) hot-spot interaction.
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
Staff Member
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Messages
1,878,405
Location
Djibouti
What about using the jig to talk to that other ghost near vicki's basement apartment?

Can't return there anymore. I assume that ghost is there for if you do Bronx first and grab Logan instead of Eli, so it tells you the passcode to the basement or sth.
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
Patron
Joined
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Messages
18,300
Location
Jersey for now
The thing I am not entirely a fan of in this is how railroaded it is and really it looks very easy. Puzzles that are there seem quite simple.
 

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