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Europa Universalis IV

Joined
May 8, 2018
Messages
3,535
Hello! We have a lot to get through today as I’ll be unveiling the majority of the new content coming in the free 1.27 ‘Poland’ update. Let’s get to it:

As the name implies, much of the new content in the Poland update is focused on Poland itself.

index.php


We’ve given the map a facelift to reflect not only the 1444 Polish-Lithuanian-Mazovian borders but also the later partitions. Here we can see several additional provinces including Chelm rudely protruding into Lithuania.

The Polish mission tree has also been expanded. This tree will help you on your way to restoring the Jagiellonian empire through personal unions, as well as avenging the defeat at Varna and of course investing in Eastern Poland. The mission tree expands when you form the Commonwealth.

A new event chain - The Prussian Confederation - puts the Teutonic Order in a precarious position in 1444. If the Teutons are unable to deal with its unruly citizens quickly, Poland may take the opportunity to march in to restore order.

index.php


Here we see the new province layout for Lithuania. Its previously oversized provinces have been split up into smaller chunks, and a fort in Lubnie makes Ruthenia more defensible against Russian aggression.

Lithuania's newly expanded mission tree focuses on the development of Ruthenia, and can also lead to a union over Poland and Muscovy.

We’ve added some new national ideas to minor nations in this region, displayed below:

Rigan Ideas


Code:
RIG_ideas = {
start = {
garrison_growth = 0.25
development_cost = -0.1
}
bonus = {
manpower_recovery_speed = 0.2
}
trigger = {
tag = RIG
}
free = yes
rig_legacy_of_bishop_albert = {
papal_influence = 2
monthly_fervor_increase = 0.25
church_power_modifier = 0.1
}
rig_hanseatic_port = {
trade_efficiency = 0.1
}
rig_monopoly_rights = {
global_own_trade_power = 0.25
}
rig_denounce_witchcraft = {
global_missionary_strength = 0.02
}
rig_free_city = {
diplomatic_reputation = 1
}
rig_fortify_riga = {
defensiveness = 0.2
}
rig_restore_brothers_of_the_sword = {
discipline = 0.05
}

rig_legacy_of_bishop_albert:0 "Legacy of Bishop Albert"
rig_legacy_of_bishop_albert_desc:0 "Bishop Albert founded Riga in 1201, establishing many of its institutions. Establishing the city not only as a center of commerce and trade, Bishop Albert also ensured that Riga would be a city of faith. "
rig_monopoly_rights:0 "Monopoly Rights"
rig_monopoly_rights_desc:0 "Treaties have long held that all trade in Livonia must pass through Riga. As borders change and old agreements are forgotten, we must ensure that our trade monopolies are protected."
rig_hanseatic_port:0 "Hanseatic Port of Riga"
rig_hanseatic_port_desc:0 "Riga is recognized as a Hanseatic port, and many wealthy and influential merchants call it home. We should take advantage of the League's mercantile expertise as we craft our economic policies."
rig_denounce_witchcraft:0 "Denounce Witchcraft"
rig_denounce_witchcraft_desc:0 "We must always be on the watch for witches that hide among us. Their malicious influence can be found almost everywhere in these troubled times; that seemingly-frail old woman, this sinister black cat, even the statue of the Virgin must not elude our watchful eyes. But wait, did that statue just look at me? Let's see if it floats!"
rig_free_city:0 "Free City of Riga"
rig_free_city_desc:0 "We cannot look only to the Hansa and the knightly orders to protect us. Emissaries should be sent to the German princes and even to the Emperor himself to guarantee Riga's freedoms."
rig_fortify_riga:0 "Fortify Riga"
rig_fortify_riga_desc:0 "Riga is no stranger to having to endure a siege. But with the likelihood of more conflict to come, we should take measures to fortify the city against whatever enemies may be marching toward us."
rig_restore_brothers_of_the_sword:0 "Restore the Brothers of the Sword"
rig_restore_brothers_of_the_sword_desc:0 "The Livonian Brothers of the Sword have fallen far since their inception. It is our duty to revive this Knightly Order and reform it into an army worthy of God's favor."
}


Chernigov Ideas


Code:
CHR_ideas = {
start = {
land_morale = 0.1
global_regiment_cost = -0.1
}
bonus = {
state_maintenance_modifier = -0.15
}
trigger = {
tag = CHR
}
free = yes
chr_legacy_of_the_old_principality = {
max_states = 3
}
chr_cossack_regiments = {
cavalry_power = 0.15
}
chr_regimental_barracks = {
global_manpower_modifier = 0.2
}
chr_konotop_fortress = {
defensiveness = 0.15
}
chr_local_councils = {
global_unrest = -2
}
chr_renovate_transfiguration_cathedral = {
tolerance_own = 2
}
chr_cultivate_the_east_dniepr = {
trade_goods_size_modifier = 0.1
}
}
chr_legacy_of_the_old_principality:0 "Legacy of the Old Principality"
chr_legacy_of_the_old_principality_desc:0 "Chernigov was once the largest principality in Kievan Rus, and second in political importance only to Kiev itself. We are no strangers to the administration of lands that stretch far beyond our capital."
chr_cossack_regiments:0 "Field Cossack Regiments"
chr_cossack_regiments_desc:0 "We must adapt to the new reality of the steppes; the growing influence of the Cossacks. We must make agreements with them that guarantee their autonomy while ensuring their military service to the state."
chr_regimental_barracks:0 "Expand Regimental Barracks"
chr_regimental_barracks_desc:0 "To house both our native soldiers and the Cossack regiments we employ, we must expand our regimental barracks and implement a formal system of recruitment."
chr_konotop_fortress:0 "Konotop Fortress"
chr_konotop_fortress_desc:0 "We must construct a new fortress along the banks of the Konotopka river. It shall be a modern bastion, utilizing the latest engineering techniques and a model for our future fortification efforts."
chr_local_councils:0 "Local Governance Councils"
chr_local_councils_desc:0 "The needs of each locality in our realm can differ wildly, and it can be difficult to administer them with a common policy. We should encourage local councils to govern themselves to an extent so that they can attend to their own needs."
chr_renovate_transfiguration_cathedral:0 "Renovate the Transfiguration Cathedral"
chr_renovate_transfiguration_cathedral_desc:0 "As the oldest remaining structure in the city, the Transfiguration Cathedral is a reminder of past glories as well as a symbol of our enduring faith. The Cathedreal should be renovated, symbolizing a renewal of our ambitions and spiritual dedication."
chr_cultivate_the_east_dniepr:0 "Tame the Grasslands"
chr_cultivate_the_east_dniepr_desc:0 "The left bank of the Dnieper could be the breadbasket of Europe, if only the wild grasslands could be tamed. We must invest in the region's cultivation so that its full potential can be realized."



Cossack Ideas


Code:
cossack_ideas = {
start = {
global_unrest = -2
loot_amount = 0.25
}
bonus = {
shock_damage = 0.1
}
trigger = {
has_reform = cossacks_reform
}
free = yes
cossacks_escaped_serfs = {
manpower_recovery_speed = 0.2
}
cossacks_hetmanate = {
republican_tradition = 0.5
}
zaz_steppe_riders = {
# as the ZAZ idea, land attrition
}
cossacks_insults = {
power_projection_from_insults = 1
}
cossacks_military_society = {
army_tradition = 0.5
}
cossacks_free_the_serfs = {
years_of_nationalism = -5
}
cossacks_registered = {
possible_mil_policy = 1
}
}
cossacks_escaped_serfs:0 "Escaped Serfs"
cossacks_escaped_serfs_desc:0 "Many among the Cossacks were born into serfdom. Tired of feudal oppression, they fled their masters and sought lives of freedom on the steppes. We must continue to welcome escaped serfs into our society."
cossacks_hetmanate:0 "Cossack Hetmanate"
cossacks_hetmanate_desc:0 "There are no kings or khans among the Cossacks. Our Hetman may be our highest military commander, but in matters of state and society he is simply the first among equals. Political power lies in the Rada, our legislative and military assembly, in which all Cossacks can have their say."
cossacks_insults:0 "Scornful Insults"
cossacks_insults_desc:0 "A biting insult is often more effective than a carefully-worded missive. We know who our enemies are, and we have no fear of their armies. Thus we should not hesitate to tell them to kiss our arse!"
cossacks_military_society:0 "Military Society"
cossacks_military_society_desc:0 "There is almost no division between civil and military society among the Cossacks. Our nation is a Host, defined by its people rather than by the land we control, and its people are warriors. We must ensure that military divisions properly meet our administrative needs as the Host expands."
cossacks_free_the_serfs:0 "Free the Serfs"
cossacks_free_the_serfs_desc:0 "No man should suffer tyranny in a Cossack realm. When we conquer new territories, the serfs, peasants, and slaves there must be liberated immediately and integrated into our great Host."
cossacks_registered:0 "Cossack Registers"
cossacks_registered_desc:0 "As the ranks of our Host swell, we must keep account of the strength of each regiment, their numbers and how well they are supplied. A centralized registry will allow us to support the needs of all Cossacks."


index.php


The Romanian nations, Wallachia and Moldavia, have each seen their starting province count increase from 3 to 5.

The new Romanian mission tree guides the player toward building a coalition against the Ottomans and driving them from the Balkans; they can even impale the Sultan himself.

Speaking of impalement, Vlad the Impaler is very likely to show up after his father’s death to sow violence and mayhem against any who dare oppose him.

We haven’t forgotten to add some flavour to Moldavia either; Moldavia is now an independent nation guaranteed by Poland. Early in the game an event chain will have Prince Roman, exiled in Poland, attempting to seize the throne. This will decide Moldavia’s fate as a march under Poland or Hungary or as an independent nation.

index.php


The Tatar hordes have had their mission tree greatly expanded. No longer limited to the conquests of Russia and Ruthenia, the Tatar missions will lead the player through the bloody conquest of the former Mongol Empire.

Speaking of which...

index.php


The Mongol Empire is a new formable tag with some very steep requirements. You’ll have to conquer the majority of Genghis Khan’s empire, having first formed Yuan, the Golden Horde, or the Ilkhanate. Should you succeed in this herculean task, you’ll be rewarded with the new Great Mongol State government reform (or government type for non-Dharma owners). The Great Mongol State functions very much like a steppe horde without many of the drawbacks, but its greatest advantage is the ability to recruit Banner units from primary culture provinces in the style of the Manchus.*

* Availability of Banner units is dependent on owning Mandate of Heaven; this feature will otherwise be replaced with a discipline bonus.

Here's some more national ideas:

Crimean Ideas


Code:
CRI_ideas = {
start = {
ae_impact = -0.1
leader_land_manuever = 1
}
bonus = {
core_creation = -0.25
}
trigger = {
tag = CRI
}
free = yes
cri_genghisid_legacy = {
cavalry_power = 0.2
}
cri_slavers = {
global_own_trade_power = 0.15
}
cri_ruthenian_raids = {
loot_amount = 0.25
}
cri_despoilers = {
leader_land_shock = 1
}
cri_free_cattle_grazing = {
production_efficiency = 0.1
}
cri_settle_the_steppes = {
build_cost = -0.1
manpower_recovery_speed = 0.1
}
cri_allow_nogai_protectorates = {
global_manpower_modifier = 0.25
}
}

cri_genghisid_legacy:0 "Genghisid Legacy"
cri_genghisid_legacy_desc:0 "Our forefathers rode with Genghis Khan as he ravaged the known world. We have kept our military traditions alive and continued to be ruled by Khans who claim descent from the Genghisid line."
cri_slavers:0 "Slavers of the Steppe"
cri_slavers_desc:0 "There is a fortune to be made from the slave trade; unwitting Christians who fall into our grasp fetch a high price in Turkish, Arabian, and Persian markets."
cri_ruthenian_raids:0 "Lead Raids into Ruthenia"
cri_ruthenian_raids_desc:0 "We must continue to lead raids into the heart of Ruthenia. Though the region is more destitute than it was in the time of Genghis Khan, we are skilled at extracting plunder and tribute from the terrified villagers."
cri_despoilers:0 "Despoilers"
cri_despoilers_desc:0 "Our raiders strike rapidly and without warning. Utterly unable to anticipate our attacks, our enemies will surely cower before us."
cri_free_cattle_grazing:0 "Free Cattle Grazing"
cri_free_cattle_grazing_desc:0 "We place no restrictions on pastoral farmers for the grazing of their great herds of horses and cattle. Herders are free to go about their business as they wish, able to traverse the steppe safely and trade freely."
cri_settle_the_steppes:0 "Settle the Crimean Steppe"
cri_settle_the_steppes_desc:0 "It is time that we established more permanent settlements. We should identify suitable locations to establish these settlements, making sure to take into account the flow of trade and the most defensible terrain."
cri_allow_nogai_protectorates:0 "Accept Nogai Protectorates"
cri_allow_nogai_protectorates_desc:0 "Several of the Nogai tribes to the west seek our protection. We should take them under our wing, guaranteeing the safety of their people in exchange for their military service."


Ilkhanate Ideas


Code:
ILK_ideas = {
start = {
cavalry_power = 0.2
cavalry_cost = -0.15
}
bonus = {
cavalry_flanking = 0.5
}
trigger = {
tag = ILK
}
free = yes
ilk_restored_ilkhanate = {
legitimacy = 1
horde_unity = 1
}
ilk_favor_sufism = {
tolerance_heretic = 2
}
ilk_persian_language_at_court = {
num_accepted_cultures = 1
}
ilk_yam_networks = {
movement_speed = 0.15
envoy_travel_time = -0.25
}
ilk_mongol_peace = {
years_of_nationalism = -5
}
ilk_patronize_observatories = {
technology_cost = -0.05
}
ilk_recruit_turkoman_gunners = {
fire_damage = 0.1
}
}
ilk_restored_ilkhanate_desc:0 "The Ilkhanate was originally established to secure Mongol rule over Persia in 1256. Many who have sought to rule Persia since have sought legitimacy by claiming descent from Genghis Khan, but our nation is a true revival of the first Ilkhanate. None can question our right to rule."
ilk_persian_language_at_court:0 "Persian Language at Court"
ilk_persian_language_at_court_desc:0 "Promoting a single language for use at court and within the state bureaucracy has clear advantages. Many of our elites have already adopted Persian as a second language, recognizing it as a prestigious and generally understood tongue throughout the Muslim world."
ilk_yam_networks:0 "The Yam"
ilk_yam_networks_desc:0 "Genghis Khan established a system of relay stations, supply networks, and intelligence gathering to be employed across the Mongol Empire to ease the burdens of governing an empire spanning thousands of miles across. We should restore the Yam so that our armies and envoys can travel efficiently through the realm."
ilk_mongol_peace:0 "Mongol Peace"
ilk_mongol_peace_desc:0 "Those who submit willingly to the Ilkhan can be sure that they will enjoy his protection. As word spreads of our benevolent and tolerant rule, resistance to our conquests will surely subside."
ilk_patronize_observatories:0 "Patronize Observatories"
ilk_patronize_observatories_desc:0 "The first incarnation of the Ilkhanate heavily patronized the study of the heavens, funding observatories and inviting renowned astronomers to court. We should emulate our forebears' love of the sciences by restoring the old observatories."
ilk_favor_sufism:0 "Favor Sufism"
ilk_favor_sufism_desc:0 "When our ancestors converted to Islam, they preferred the mystical teachings of Sufi scholars to the sectarian politics of the conventional Ulema. We should invite such scholars to court and promote a tolerant policy towards all Muslims in our realm."
ilk_recruit_turkoman_gunners:0 "Recruit Turkoman Gunners"
ilk_recruit_turkoman_gunners_desc:0 "It would be foolish to ignore the services offered by the Turkoman soldiers who have begun to settle in our realm. Handheld firearms are the future of warfare, and these Turkomans have mastered that art."


index.php


Finally, a new batch of government reforms will shortly be available to Dharma owners.

Venetian Government (also available as a government type to non-Dharma owners) is a special variety of Merchant Republic with a new kind of election: Lottery. In governments with Lottery election, corruption is reduced, rulers rule for life, are generated to be much older, and have weighted random stats. Elections occur only when the ruler dies. In an election, you are presented with 3 candidates each of which would cost Republican Tradition to elect directly. Alternatively, you can let the Lottery decide and one of the three candidates will be chosen at random for no republican Tradition cost.

For those of you not playing as Venice, the new Sortition government reform will enable Lottery elections for any Republican nation.

At a disturbingly late point during development, we realized that we already had a government reform named Sortition and realized we needed to replace it. We came up with 2 new reforms in the 9th tier for Republican governments:

Appointment by Committee reduces advisor costs and allows an extra possible advisor.

Bureaucratic Apparatus reduces minimum autonomy in Territories.

Last but not least, we’ve added 2 new government reforms for Indian nations, available for all nations with the Marathas and Rajputs estates respectively:

Permanent Marathas Council gives +5% discipline, and changes the Recruit Advisor interaction to instead spawn a general with +1 shock. Enacting this reforms will make the Marathas more loyal and influential, while having the opposite effect on the Nobles.

Governmental Purbias Register gives +5% morale recovery speed, and changes the Enlist Purbias interaction to give both fire damage and extra discipline to your Rajput regiments. Enacting this reforms will make the Rajputs more loyal and influential, while having the opposite effect on the Nobles. Rajput regiments themselves have been rebalanced to now have -25% Army Drill Decay, -50% Reinforce Cost, and 5% Morale as a base.

That’s all for today! Next week @DDRJake will be revealing the full 1.27 changelog. In the meantime, I’ll be available in this thread to answer questions on the upcoming content.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,149
Step 1: Introduce patch with the intent of neutering blobbing past state limit.
Step 2: Introduce new patch with the fucking Mongol Empire as a formable nation with no bonuses to state limit.
Step 3: ???
 

Preben

Arcane
Patron
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Jan 18, 2017
Messages
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Location
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Hello! We have a lot to get through today as I’ll be unveiling the majority of the new content coming in the free 1.27 ‘Poland’ update. Let’s get to it:

As the name implies, much of the new content in the Poland update is focused on Poland itself.

So, they add a handful of provinces and missions and call it "Poland" update. How about fixing the Elective Monarchy and introducing some Sejm mechanics?
 

thesheeep

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The EU series has the issue that it's too generalized compared to the other Paradox games. It tries to do all the things at once but doesn't do any of them as in-depth as the other games do.

Pretty much what I was trying to say. They need to find a core gameplay and focus on it, as HOI and CK have. It could be something like the estates, I have read some good discussion on this on the Paradox forum, to make estates work they need to be tied in to the base game, so be part of diplomatic system, war system etc. But this requires EU5, god knows when they will ever make that...
The thing is that EU isn't meant to have super complex systems in every detail. It is not "Everything: The Game".
If you really wanted the economic system of Vic, the combat of HoI, the Sims Medieval dynasty management of CK2, the faction interaction of Diplomacy, etc. you would end up with a game that a) couldn't be handled by most computers and b) would just be too cumbersome and complicated to play for almost anyone. How would you even pull off a decent UI? Sounds almost impossible to me.
EUIV, at least with mods that crank up all the details a little and difficulty a lot, has just the right balance of gameplay elements & their depth without any of them annoying the shit out of you.

Failing that if they really just want EU to be map painting conquer game then combat system needs to be utterly revamped.
Agreed, once you get it, it becomes pretty much a no-brainer. Get enough infantry to fill the width, maybe a few more to replace fallen ones, mass artillery behind, have two cavalry to pretend it doesn't suck, don't fall behind in tech. Done.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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The problem is rather similar in Victoria too, and the same problems remain: Technology and not using a HoI style attacking to bordering provinces instead of walking all the way to the same province for everyone to get in the pile. The second problem is easy, just stop using the shittier system and make every Pdox game use the HoI engagement mechanics. The first problem requires a bit more work:

Best solution would be to remove all direct technology bonuses (the technology system is stupid anyway and should be reworked into something that focuses more on gradual economic and infrastructure development) to combat and instead reform into a system based on the production and stockpiling of weapons for use. Rather than having different kinds of units, you instead assign armies matchlocks, horses, artillery, and so on. While at it, removal of standing armies in favour of a system based on mobilization of a % of the population in wartime would be ideal as well (and in a smarter manner than the dumbass levy system from CK2 have you instead in peacetime assign your manpower reserves by percentage or whatever to different fronts where they are then raised when war starts). A simple system food production would also be important.
 
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The problem is rather similar in Victoria too, and the same problems remain: Technology and not using a HoI style attacking to bordering provinces instead of walking all the way to the same province for everyone to get in the pile. The second problem is easy, just stop using the shittier system and make every Pdox game use the HoI engagement mechanics. The first problem requires a bit more work:

Best solution would be to remove all direct technology bonuses (the technology system is stupid anyway and should be reworked into something that focuses more on gradual economic and infrastructure development) to combat and instead reform into a system based on the production and stockpiling of weapons for use. Rather than having different kinds of units, you instead assign armies matchlocks, horses, artillery, and so on. While at it, removal of standing armies in favour of a system based on mobilization of a % of the population in wartime would be ideal as well (and in a smarter manner than the dumbass levy system from CK2 have you instead in peacetime assign your manpower reserves by percentage or whatever to different fronts where they are then raised when war starts). A simple system food production would also be important.

Good thinking, Vaarna.
That could be pretty much half-way into a Vicky-like economic system, tho. Not that it would't be incline, mind you.
That could lead to cool gameplay, like sending your old-ass guns to the colonial armies, while putting your top of the line guns to fight in Europe.

One problem that EU has is how simple and easy it is to mobilize a proper army, especially in Europe. Biggest pre-revolution army raised in Europe was 170k soldiers by France in the 1700s something, and the King then had to pretty much go around the entire country asking for help. Properly unified France or Italy can easily build, man and pay for an army of that size... in 1400 or 1500, no need to blob. Let's not even mention the Otto-blob of Doom.

Armies were small then, and there was a lot of reliance on mercs.

Food system would also bring attrition back as a real concern. I recently rage-quit a game because over a doomstack of over 100k Ottomans marched against my Moroccan dominions through miles and miles of deep scorched Maghrebian desert, and didn't suffer a scratch. Which was massive bullshit, 80% of that army should have died on the way.

Also, feels like that system + the end of a single unit being based on 1k soldiers, would allow for actual colonial wars in the Americas. "Colonization is boring!" Of COURSE it is, there is no real fighting to be had. Feels like the American Continent was almost empty of people.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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Well, the main thing is really just that you wouldn't have refining of trade goods beyond iron and copper into artillery and firearms. Other goods can still largely be about cash, while food production would be best served by being something every province does but to varying degrees of effectiveness (after all, one rather important thing was that Western Europe was overall a net importer of grain from Poland-Lithuania).

And the bigger problem than the army sizes is really just how easy it is to take them far away. A huge body of water is kind of an impenetrable defense at that time, one reason why American War of Independence was an all-around success and why the Spanish Empire came crashing down.


Another important thing about possibility of decoupling military potential from technology and economic base would be in regards to colonization, since the Sioux for example did put up a stiff fight until it became evident they simply lacked the population base to truly repel settler encroachment.


(Incidentally I for one think the current restrictions to territories and conversion is a good thing, it adds an element of clay feet to vast empires even if not all that much in the end)

Naval warfare is its own entire bugbear that doesn't work at all right now, so in a way that's one thing where CK2 is an improvement since it's better to have no naval warfare than to have one that mostly serves to piss you off.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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Even just an easter egg of actually being able to form the Mongol Empire with Finnish main culture would be funny enough.
 

Serus

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The problem is rather similar in Victoria too, and the same problems remain: Technology and not using a HoI style attacking to bordering provinces instead of walking all the way to the same province for everyone to get in the pile. The second problem is easy, just stop using the shittier system and make every Pdox game use the HoI engagement mechanics. The first problem requires a bit more work:

Best solution would be to remove all direct technology bonuses (the technology system is stupid anyway and should be reworked into something that focuses more on gradual economic and infrastructure development) to combat and instead reform into a system based on the production and stockpiling of weapons for use. Rather than having different kinds of units, you instead assign armies matchlocks, horses, artillery, and so on. While at it, removal of standing armies in favour of a system based on mobilization of a % of the population in wartime would be ideal as well (and in a smarter manner than the dumbass levy system from CK2 have you instead in peacetime assign your manpower reserves by percentage or whatever to different fronts where they are then raised when war starts). A simple system food production would also be important.

Good thinking, Vaarna.
That could be pretty much half-way into a Vicky-like economic system, tho. Not that it would't be incline, mind you.
That could lead to cool gameplay, like sending your old-ass guns to the colonial armies, while putting your top of the line guns to fight in Europe.

One problem that EU has is how simple and easy it is to mobilize a proper army, especially in Europe. Biggest pre-revolution army raised in Europe was 170k soldiers by France in the 1700s something, and the King then had to pretty much go around the entire country asking for help. Properly unified France or Italy can easily build, man and pay for an army of that size... in 1400 or 1500, no need to blob. Let's not even mention the Otto-blob of Doom.

Armies were small then, and there was a lot of reliance on mercs.

Food system would also bring attrition back as a real concern. I recently rage-quit a game because over a doomstack of over 100k Ottomans marched against my Moroccan dominions through miles and miles of deep scorched Maghrebian desert, and didn't suffer a scratch. Which was massive bullshit, 80% of that army should have died on the way.

Also, feels like that system + the end of a single unit being based on 1k soldiers, would allow for actual colonial wars in the Americas. "Colonization is boring!" Of COURSE it is, there is no real fighting to be had. Feels like the American Continent was almost empty of people.
Slightly incorrect about the sizes of armies in 18th century. Russia and Austrian Habsburgs fielded ~300k strong standing armies already in second half of 18th century pre-revolution. French army was relatively smaller in the decades directly before French Revolution (~180k) because French finances were crushed by massive debts so French army wasn't the biggest one on the continent in that period. However France at some point during Louis XIV rule was able to raise as much as ~400k at a time, though standing army in peacetime was smaller.
Having said that - your general point about size of the armies stands. Before early/mid ~17th century/30YW war most European countries only had very small standing armies if at all and you're right the the ability to raise such large armies early in the game is ahistorical.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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It also gets extremely annoying later in the game too. EU4's war model depends on armies having lots of room to maneuver because there's way more provinces than armies going about. By then when you have ~ten+ stacks on every combatant it just turns in a mess where the key point of contest is who has the bonuses when the dogpile happens.

This is generally why I feel there's a problem with a province value based system of attrition, since all it is really for is skirting before the deadly man-orgy dogpile. IF attrition also applied in combat separately for each side, that'd be alright since it'd essentially prevent the dogpile, but the way it currently is all it measures is the optimal stack size for maneuvering. As the latest Nobunaga's Ambition handily proves, the best model of attrition is one based around a supply reserve the army carries with it.
 
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abstraction motherfuckers, do you know it? i'm not saying eu4 is perfect as it is, far from it, but damn, you complain about and demand things out of this world.
 

Mark.L.Joy

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Played for a few h, game is over by the time of the religious wars which exactly when you start getting more options to acquire provinces and power, next time I'll start at a later date.
 

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Welp, with the new patch full Religious ideas allows for conversion of territories. Personally I rather liked the way it was, it worked as yet another reason to decentralize and have your vassals take care of the conversions.

abstraction motherfuckers, do you know it? i'm not saying eu4 is perfect as it is, far from it, but damn, you complain about and demand things out of this world.
I would disagree on that. If anything, I would say I'm asking for less in some places, ie removal of multiple types of regiment in favour of building guns and artillery (and horses, presumably out of glue and meetwurst) for your army, which rather than being stacks is instead mobilized as a % of your population (or at the very least, severe hardcapping of regiments and manpower, non-HoI Pdox war model suffers immensily after X number of stacks are moving about). Nobunaga's Ambition is what I brought up on purpose because it's a case example of how simple and elegant design can lead to superior strategy.
 

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abstraction motherfuckers, do you know it? i'm not saying eu4 is perfect as it is, far from it, but damn, you complain about and demand things out of this world.
There is good abstraction and bad abstraction, motherfucker, do you know it?
In case of EU4 warfare is both not very interesting nor engaging AND ahistorical at the same time. The best thing that can be said about it is that it works. There is really not much to lose by changing current system as long as you replace it with another system that "works".
Of curse the proposed changes by Vaarna is something for EU5 not EU4 and since that game is not yet made the proposal certainly isn't "out of this world".
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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I would say ditto on CK3, since I'd say CK model of warfare is EVEN WORSE than the EU and Victoria one, in large part because of how tremendously asinine the levy system in them is.
 
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I would say ditto on CK3, since I'd say CK model of warfare is EVEN WORSE than the EU and Victoria one, in large part because of how tremendously asinine the levy system in them is.

What?

EU4 has retarded squares system, 1k artillery, plenty of other dumb shit.

CK2 even has a better merc and manpower model than EU4.

CK2's problem is the awful tactic system. Armies unit types randomly flip between -200% damage (what the fuck this even means I don't know) to +200% damage based on arcane bullshit. If you deleted CK2's tactics and inserted HoI's you'd have an excellent system.
 
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Well, medieval battles were full of HOW THE FUCK MY VASTLY SUPERIOR FORCE WAS CRUSHED BY THIS RABBLE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Meanwhile France existed in WW2 and Austria/Ottomans existed in WW1. Well, on paper at least.

I still can't figure out what -200% damage means though. Does that mean shooting arrows at the enemy heals them?
 

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