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Why do people hate Oblivion so much?

mfkndggrfll

Learned
Shitposter Bethestard
Joined
Mar 21, 2018
Messages
546
Sure thats why it got so much praise.... Oblivion was incredibly good and well designed for 2006 standards, it introduced a ton of features that other games didnt.
Name one.
Oblivion has redeeming qualities all over the place.
I wouldn't say that I agree with either of you. Oblivion has a couple redeeming qualities but not all over the place. The major one is that it requires no thought. Which makes it a great game for shutting off your mind for a few hours. And I can appreciate the need and demand for games like these as I am guilty of playing a few myself. Civilization V being major among them.
You obviously dont have a fucking clue about RPGs in general.
Right after saying that bashing gameplay is a bad thing...

Late reply but for one it had some very good ragdoll mechanics, it offered the ability to start quests by overhearing conversations in an open world, it offered a pretty good sneak system, it offered a unique and challenging lockpicking minigame, it offered a large open world that is still unmatched today scale-wise for games with handcrafted content.

As for the redeeming qualities all over the place, well they are literally scattered all over the map. The side quests are the redeeming qualities to me.

''Right after saying that bashing gameplay is a bad thing...''

I replied to the guy who bashed Oblivion's gameplay but praised Morrowind's which is mostly the same. Way to take a comment out of context...
 

Inehresa

Educated
Patron
Joined
Sep 16, 2018
Messages
38
Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
You know the biggest issue with TESIV, TESIII or TESV is this completely retarded strive to make the biggest, coolest sandbox ever each time. I mean structure of their games (aside from lack of any creativity or intelligence or both on part of their devteam) makes it really hard to pull off immersive, real and plausibile world. I don't get it why they seem to be so focused on making the player feel special about himself in terms of static interaction with gameworld (like allowing you to become boss of any faction within days since enrolling) and yet create a world that is so unresponsive and/or indiferrent to your actions (earlier mentioned rapid career advancements come with no duties, bonus (except for some fancy items), respect, power, anything that we've learnt to associate with high ranking positions - even earlier in the game PC can hear that Mages Guild archmagister banned necromancy because he's a total faggot who goes to work in white lingerie, but suddenly when we take his seat there's nothing of matter we can do - no unbanning of forementioned school of magic, no banning some stuff because you can. It's like PC was some kind of metaphysical force that puts an end to a history in game's world and this shit, more specifically this type of thinking about fictional world and your role in it and constructing whole gameplay around it is the simple, main and abstract reason why people hate TES games so much and why whenever they talk about TES shortcomings it's graphics or writing style or any other "general" bucket term that will be brought up - there is nothing else to criticise in this games, they are devoid of quality or meaning.

Hope I helped.
 

Miner Arobar

Educated
Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
64
Thing is, Oblivion is not a bad _game_. You can have a lot of somewhat mindless fun sniping with your bow at bandits or undead in a not very inspired fantasy landscape (and just occasionally, while prowling some overgrown ruins, I almost get the atmosphere that I think developers were heading at. Of course, then you see an NPCs face, and well...). I think a lot of Codex hatred directed at Oblivion is due to the game being enormously overhyped (particularly the "radiant AI" part) and (for people who liked Morrowind) that it wrecks the interesting lore and worldbuilding established in Redguard and Morrowind.

What's wrong with Oblivion is this:
- Hideously implemented level scaling. Nothing wrong with level scaling as such - Skyrim and Morrowind did it much more subtly - but when you're confronted by bandits wearing Daedric armour or saving the city of Kvatch from an invasion of stunted scamps, something's gone terribly wrong. This has been modded out in a dozen different ways, but all do instead violence to the main quest progress as intended: you'll have to somehow avoid Kvatch for the first fifteen levels or so even though everyone's telling you to go there and save the world immediately.
- Turning TES lore into something mildly retarded. Just reading the in-game books give you the impression that all were extensively edited and rewritten in order to be comprehensible for a not very bright eight-year old. And what's with all these neo-gothic churches in Tamriel?
- Worldbuilding that just does not work: having eight or so tiny cities in a large bowl so they're visible from each other with no outback, no small villages or swamps, no functioning mining camps, very few actual roads or paths outside of the main ones. The one village that actually looked like a decent village was only there for the purpose of you killing half the population in a Daedric quest and it actually had no roads or anything leading to it.

All of these issues have been taken care of to some extent at least in Skyrim. The only downside of Skyrim as compared to Oblivion is that faction questlines seem sort of half-finished. I can accept ditching the stats in favour of a perk-based system, particularly as it can and has been modded into something really interesting (Requiem). People claiming Skyrim is somehow a further decline from Oblivion either have a general hatred for TES games, which is fine, or haven't really played either and are just trying to be edgy.
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,295
People claiming Skyrim is somehow a further decline from Oblivion either have a general hatred for TES games, which is fine, or haven't really played either and are just trying to be edgy.
Or they are so badly burnt by Oblivion that they cannot believe that the decline could be arrested. Sort of like Dragon Age 2.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
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Location
Nottingham
As much as Skyrim did loads better, I actually finished more questlines in Oblivion for some reason. I definitely found the expansion packs & Dark Brotherhood quests worth a blast.

Both are so wank though compred to Morrowind.
 

Commissar Draco

Codexia Comrade Colonel Commissar
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Привислинский край
Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
The chroniclers who had heretofore ignored the life of Rislav now devote verse after verse describing the king's aspect with fetishistic delight. While it may lack literary merit and taste, we are at least given some details at last. Not surprisingly, the king wore the finest armor of his era, as the Colovian Estates then had the finest leathersmiths - the only type of armor available - in all of Tamriel. The king's klibanion mail, boiled and waxed for hardness, and studded with inch-long spikes, was a rich chestnut red, and he wore it over his black tunic but under his black cloak. The statue of Rislav the Righteous which now stands in Skingrad is a romanticized version of king, but not inaccurate except in the armor represented. No bard of the Colovian West would have gone to the market so lightly protected. But it does, as we will see, include the most important accouterments of Rislav: his trained hawk and his fast horse.

The winter rains had washed through the roads to the south, sending much of the West Weald spilling into Valenwood. The Emperor took the northern route, and King Rislav with a small patrol of guards met him at a low pass on what is now the Gold Road. The Emperor's army, it is said, was so large that the Beast of Anequina could hear its march from hundreds of miles away, and despite himself, the chroniclers say, he quaked in fear.

Rislav, it was said, did not quake. With perfect politeness, he told the Emperor that his party was too large to be accommodated in the tiny kingdom of Skingrad.

"Next time," Rislav said. "Write before you come."

The Emperor was, like most Alessian Emperors, not a man of great humor, and he thought Rislav touched by Sheogorath. He ordered his personal guards to arrest the poor madman, but at that moment, the King of Skingrad raised his arm and sent his hawk flying into the sky. It was a signal his army had been waiting for. The Alessian were all within the pass and the range of their arrows.

King Rislav and his guard began riding westward as fast as if they had been "kissed by wild Kynareth," as the chroniclers said. He did not dare to look behind him, but his plan went faultlessly. The far eastern end of the pass was sealed by rolling boulders, giving the Alessian no direction to go but westward. The Skingrad archers rained arrows down upon the Imperial army from far above on the plateaus, remaining safe from reprisal. The furious Emperor Gorieus chased Rislav from the Weald to the Highlands, leaving Skingrad far behind, all the while his army growing steadily smaller and smaller.

In the ancient Highland forest, the Imperial army met the army of Rislav's father-in-law, the King of Kvatch. The Alessian army likely still outnumbered their opponents, but they were exhausted and their morale had been obliterated by the chase amid a sea of arrows. After an hour's battle, they retreated north into what is now the Imperial Reserve, and from there, further north and east, to slip back to nurse their wounds and pride in Nibenay.

It was the beginning of the end of the Alessian hegemony. The Kings of the Colovian West joined with Kvatch and Skingrad to resist Imperial incursions. The Clan Direnni under Ryain was inspired to outlaw the religion of the Alessian Reform throughout his lands in High Rock, and began pushing into Imperial territories. The new High Chief of Skyrim, Hoag, now called Hoag Merkiller, though sharing the Emperor's official xenophobia, also joined the resistance. His heir, King Ysmir Wulfharth of Atmora, helped continue the struggle upon Hoag's death in battle, and also insured his place in history.

The heroic King of Skingrad, who faced the Emperor's army virtually alone, and triggered its end, justly deserves his sobriquet of Rislav the Righteous.

You read such book like Rislav the Righteous expect Colovia to be like X/XI Century Kievan Rus' and instead find the boring forest with two or three western medieval towns.

:negative:

At least Skyrim does looks and feels vaguely Norse/medieval Scandinavian.
 

U-8D8

Savant
Joined
May 2, 2018
Messages
168
People claiming Skyrim is somehow a further decline from Oblivion either have a general hatred for TES games, which is fine, or haven't really played either and are just trying to be edgy.
I disagree. I don't want to defend Oblivion, but I think Bethesda made enough bad design choices in Skyrim that someone could call either game worse than the other and still have a case. For instance, Skyrim removed the spellmaking system, one of the funnest parts of previous TES games. An entire type of destruction spells becomes useless due to HP bloat, when if you had spellmaking you could simply up the damage at the expense of costing more magicka. Movement skills and mechanics are the same deal. Without acrobatics or athletics, every fight degrades into you and the enemy getting as close as possible and then slapping each other with your weapons until one of you is dead. You can't even kite around the enemy or dodge because Bethesda made backward movement slower than forward movement. Not only does it make fighting boring, it also renders weapon length useless as the gap between a backpedaling player and their enemy can be closed in about a second.

I'm gonna leave it at that, but the fact I can mention even more downgrades from Oblivion, Oblivion of all things, is frightening. For every improvement Bethesda made from Oblivion they either made some new mistake or removed one of only bright spots from Oblivion's gameplay. For me, at the end of the day Skyrim just ends up on the same level as Oblivion; a piece of crap, perhaps a more digestible piece but crap all the same.
 

Incendax

Augur
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
892
Potatoes Faces kill it for me. I had to use Rhedd’s Heads to even tolerate the game. But to be fair, I have that problem with all the old 3D graphic games. For example, I love World of Xeen but cannot stand Wizardry 8.
 

Santander02

Arcane
Joined
Sep 29, 2009
Messages
3,363
People claiming Skyrim is somehow a further decline from Oblivion either have a general hatred for TES games, which is fine, or haven't really played either and are just trying to be edgy.
Or they are so badly burnt by Oblivion that they cannot believe that the decline could be arrested. Sort of like Dragon Age 2.

I can see why people say this: Removal of attributes and gamefying of birthsigns, CoD esque regenerating health, no mysticism, spell maker and less spells in general, awful, awful interface...it's almost like for everything rymjob actually improved they just had dumb down something else to maintain the balance of decline.
 
Self-Ejected

theSavant

Self-Ejected
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
2,009
Stat based combat and FPP do not mix together very well in my opinion. Unless you take your god damn time and resources and make it obvious that you swing slower than needed or pull string of your bow for a shot that's too weak to penetrate armor, or have some sort of feedback of any kind on what just happened than seeing enigmatic "missed". Watching your character stab your enemy and do plain nothing is as bizzare as punching walls to increase your swordsmanship skill. The only stats that can sneak through is damage or damage resistance because that's when you actually hit something - but it's boring and almost every game with RPG label falls into that trap.

I agree with that. And because of that I also re-inspected the combat of Oblivion, Skyrim and Dark Messiah of Might & Magic. After the investigation I must say the combat of Dark Messiah doesn‘t seem that great anymore. I'm a bit surprised myself, but it helped me to understand the seemingly "retarded combat of Oblivion and Skyrim" better.

A) Combat in Dark Messiah allows you to push a sword or spear through an enemy. This was really impressing at first, but when I tried to replicate it, I eventually found out this is nothing else than a „finishing move“. Nothing else than the infamous „Kill Cam“ in Skyrim when you make a finishing move. And it only happens on enemies who would most likely be dead anyways on the next hit. Try it on a completely healthy character and it just won‘t work. You are just piercing into "air" although you should pierce the enemy. Disappointing. Until this „finishing point“ arrives, the combat is nothing more than retarded bashing „clang clang clang“. The same retarded bashing like in Skyrim or Oblivion. You hit the enemy multiple times and slowly drain his health. Nothing enthralling about it.
While Dark Messiah has some features which make the combat a bit more varied, eventually they are not that great either: there is the "kicking", throwing barrels at the enemy, or entangle your sword with the sword of an opponent (only to be disentangled by a „kick“). These things are always the same though and they get repetitive very soon. Aside from that combat is not much different than in Oblivion or Skyrim.

B) I found the combat interaction in Dark Messiah very stressfull. You must click on different movement keys to swing the sword in different directions, at the same time target a certain enemy spot with the mouse, at the same time move (walking) somehow, even crouch occasionally to avoid a hit, and at the same time using abilities like a Powerstrike by holding and clicking in various ways. Half a dozen type of interactions at the same time and often getting in the way of each other. It was annoying and eventually became a very stressful, frustrating type of interaction. Also it was not some click-moving in a relaxed way (like clicking in Diablo), but something which gives you cramps by spasmodically clicking and moving. As much as I was impressed by the combat system (the very first time I played the game), I can't bring myself to play the game anymore because of that.
This reminds me of a discussion in Bethesda's forums: People were comparing Dark Messiah with Oblivion, and Bethesda told them their focus was the overall game package and not a specific combat simulator. And it makes sense. They probably thought that on the long run complicated combat controls (like above) will not enhance the enjoyment of the game (and they really don't). So they stuck with a simple type of combat, which still fulfilled its purpose. Well-considered. Which goes hand-in-hand with the next point...

C) How much sense does it make to have sophisticated real-life-imitating combat, when it's a stat-based RPG (which the Elder Scrolls are)? None. When your Level-Ups raises Strength & Stats anyway, then there is no point to make more sophisticated combat interactions. The enemies will die earlier anyways because of your enhanced Stats. No point for specific hit-areas, sword moves etc. It however makes sense to have at least some interaction, but only so much it doesn't get too complicated. An abstract "Block" and "Attack" delivers these actions. And Oblivion had these. So again it makes sense why there is not more interaction required. Oblivion did combat actually right.
Though they added some new interactions in Skyrim, like Power Attack, Sneak Attack, Shield Bash... and to be honest, I found these to become stressfull again because they were (like in Dark Messiah) a spasmodical type of interaction: for example "a backward power attack where you must be moving backwards and then perform a power attack, where you must press down your attack button hard continuously, while moving forward again"... I get cramps in my hand even thinking about it. And how many people did even remember to do such moves?

Back then when I first played Dark Messiah I was so impressed, that I've always wanted more sophisticated combat in RPGs... but when I'm looking at it now, I only see hand-cramps.
 
Last edited:

Wayward Son

Fails to keep valuable team members alive
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Messages
1,866,294
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Anytown, USA
Thoug they added some new interactions in Skyrim, like Power Attack, Sneak Attack, Shield Bash...
These were all in oblivion, maybe even more so.
and to be honest, I found these to become stressfull again
JFC. Nothing about Skyrim or oblivion can be called stressful.

I found the combat interaction in Dark Messiah very stressfull.
You’re mixing stressful up with difficult.

Multiple interactions at the same time and often getting in the way of each other.
I never noticed this.


Your entire point A is at odds with point B btw.
 

Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
7,952
People claiming Skyrim is somehow a further decline from Oblivion either have a general hatred for TES games, which is fine, or haven't really played either and are just trying to be edgy.

It's further decline in the saw way a plane can pull up out of a dive and yet the downward momentum still plants it into the ground as it's recovering.

Whatever improvements that were made in Skyrim are countered by the general further diminishment that really took hold in Oblivion, but can be seen within their roots beginning in Morrowind.
 

HarveyBirdman

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
Messages
1,044
Because they've assimilated into the hivemind. Oblivion is best in the franchise.

Arena
- sucked
Daggerfall
- much better version of Arena
Battlespire
- kinda cool, but not that good
Redguard
- good spinoff
Morrowind
- Skill removal, fewer factions, and wikipedia dialogue were mistakes.
- Everything else was a direct improvement over Daggerfall.
Oblivion
- Quest markers, skill removal, and fewer factions were mistakes.
- Main quest can never top Morrowind's, but was a very solid entry.
- Everything else was a direct improvement over Morrowind.
- High water mark.
Skyrim
- Direct downgrade from Oblivion in all respects except for gameplay with bows.
- Still a good game. Mods make it a very good RPG.
 

Delterius

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
15,956
Location
Entre a serra e o mar.
Because they've assimilated into the hivemind. Oblivion is best in the franchise.

Arena
- mods will fix it
Daggerfall
- mods will fix it
Battlespire
- mods will fix it
Redguard
- mods will fix it
Morrowind
- mods will fix it
Oblivion
- mods will fix it
Skyrim
- mods will fix it

i modded your post a bit
 

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