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X-COM I wanna give Apocalypse a shot, any tips?

Eyestabber

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So even tho I have several hundred hours of both X-Com and TFTD, I never got into Apocalypse. While I played the first two games at release, I missed apoc until Steam became a thing and the game just sat on my library ever since. I heard it was an unfinished game, but got better with mods or whatever. Questions:

- Should I run it with OpenApoc?
- Any "vanilla+" mod recommendations?
- Are there any unofficial patches/other third party stuff I need or am I good to go right after Steam is done downloading the game?
- Is the game playable in full TB mode? Because the other game I did play that featured both TB and RTwP (Fo Tatics) had completely different metas, depending on what combat mode you decided to use.
- Any good tutorials/first steps guide around? Because at least the "geoscape" portion of the game is completely different.

Ty in advance
 
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Hey bro.

- Should I run it with OpenApoc?

Man, I'm not sure if its playable already. But if it is, do so.
It would be better IMHO for you to get the vanilla experience.

- Any "vanilla+" mod recommendations?

Karadoc's mod, definitively. Makes the game harder and a bit more diverse. Balanced for TB but can be played in RT too.

Roadwar mod. Roadwar is cool because it makes land vehicles useful - in vanilla, land vehicles are total shit with the exception of the Tank, which is awesome until the aliens blow the road bellow it. I think its fully compatible with Karadoc's, don't remember.

Megapol Mod if you want to have weird fun by playing as Megapol instead of X-COM. From what I heard its pretty much unwinnable tho.


- Are there any unofficial patches/other third party stuff I need or am I good to go right after Steam is done downloading the game?

Nah, you're good. I think there might be a patch but steam always comes with patches nowdays.

- Is the game playable in full TB mode? Because the other game I did play that featured both TB and RTwP (Fo Tatics) had completely different metas, depending on what combat mode you decided to use.

Yes, althrough I think its a bit wonky compared to the original X-COM.

- Any good tutorials/first steps guide around? Because at least the "geoscape" portion of the game is completely different.

I remember a good one on Gamefaqs, but I've taken to avoiding walkthroughs and such.[/URL]
 

Alienman

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Just a small tip.

Sometimes you will see UFOs beam something down to houses in the world. They are dropping aliens into them. Usually when aliens are discovered you get an alert and you can send some guys to take care of it. But the thing is, sometimes you don't get an alert and the aliens silently infiltrate that corporation. If you remember what houses they beamed stuff to you can send a X-com squad and force an investigation (mission) there. If you don't find anything, they might get pissed off, so only do it if you really suspect that they are housing aliens. It also works by looking at the infiltration tab, and if you start to suspect something with a corporation/faction, send an expedition and check. You might risk some rep with them, but it's better than to get them infiltrated, because once you go alien, you never go back!

Also, this might be the heretic thing to do, but I prefer playing Apocalpyse in real time. I love the chaos :)
 
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Some hints and tips from me:

1. Weight takes APs, and most weight is armor.

2. You can mix and match armor parts.

3. With Marsec armor chest part, your soldiers can fly.

4. This is not the originals, you don't have unlimited rookies from every nation in the world - your recruiting pool of soldiers and scientists is limited. Don't treat them as entirely disposable, but don't treat them like NuXCOM's snowflake soldiers either.

5. Megapol armor is pretty good, and will resist almost anything - except OP stuff like rocket launchers, plasma pistols, power swords and alien weaponry. I've seen it my soldiers survive pistol and point-blank machine gun barrages. Marsec armor is lighter and less armored, better for equiping scouts and fliers.

6. Don't send big squads to early missions. At the first days, you can do fine with a duo of troopers, with four to be safe. Later on you should switch to six-man squads, and eventually eight-men and more.

7. You won't be able to buy all the human weaponry at the first week, it will take a while for the paperwork for these guns to clear. By Week 2 you should have some better guns.

8. Man, WATCH OUT WITH EXPLOSIVES! Apocalypse features a WONDERFUL destructible terrain that's one of the best ever. You can pretty much demolish and trash an entire place, but you will piss off the faction that owns it, and it will cry to you and demand cash. I once blew up almost an entire factory with a single rocket. Go crazy if said faction is already an enemy.

9. Every faction has friends and enemies. At the start, your pals are the Government, Megapol, SELF and the Mutant Alliance. Cult and Aliens will always be your enemies. Most factions sell you things, or provide services.

10. All organizations can be infiltrated by aliens, minus SELF.

11. Personally, I consider Psi pretty worthless.

12. If your soldiers are not fighting or in hospital, they should be in gym.
 

Norfleet

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7. You won't be able to buy all the human weaponry at the first week, it will take a while for the paperwork for these guns to clear. By Week 2 you should have some better guns.
The human factions never sell you enough stuff and quickly stop producing it. But why ask, when you can take? Grab your stunners, head for a weapons factory, and stunraid them. As long as you don't kill anyone or destroy anything, they don't get mad at you.

In TB mode, the standard human machine gun is a GREAT weapon. While neither the damage nor accuracy are great, the extreme rate of fire (1 AP per shot) lets you put enough rounds downrange to chew through just about anything, while the relatively weak shots limit collateral damage. Amazing weapon in the hands of a low-to-mid TU soldier, but once you get too many TUs, it abruptly jumps to 2 AP a shot (and thus becomes crap). At that point you can give them your alientech cannons until you get the Toxiguns, which have the same property.
 
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Zenith

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TB and RT each have some broken advantages (point-blank 1AP machineguns in TB, overwatch vs brainsuckers in RT), and you'd arm your guys differently depending on the mode. So yeah, a bit like F:T quirks.
I don't know if it is, but if OpenApoc is feature-complete, I'd play that even if it isn't stable. Making vanilla version work without sound hiccups turned out to still be a problem on a good PC last time I played.
Also, pay no mind to dead aliens dropping some eggs - what's the worst that can happen?
 

geno

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How is OpenApoc going? I just checked their Trello site, but it didn't change since last year.
 

mwnn85

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It's not ready for prime time yet.
A fairly recent post has them wondering how to boost the number of contributions to the project.

I don't think raising a small amount of money would help really. (unless they hit the jackpot on Patreon)
There seems to be a lack of skilled programmers out there that are willing to work in their free time on projects like this.
Projects like this ultimately are labors of love, aren't they?
I know some basics as I'm reading KN King's book but nothing on this scale i.e. OpenGL, C++, SDL, etc.

Perhaps Warboy and SupSuper might pitch in to help OpenApoc? The latter has a few contributions to OpenApoc.
It looks like OpenXcom might finally be getting an official 2.0 release.
Anyone using 1.0 wouldn't even be aware of TFTD support!
They've been firing out nightly releases for what seems like an eternity now.

When people start a big venture like this I often wonder whether they're writing and rewriting the same segments without solving the tough problems or making it perform any quicker, etc.
There must come a point where it's "good enough" and more pressing issues can be tackled.

p.s. It seemed best to swarm UFO's with lots of bikes rather than large vehicles + ground vehicles sucked.
 
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axx

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OpenApoc is progressing extremely slowly as the guy who did bulk of programming (Istrebitel) left. He mentioned in one of the posts that the game is playable, but it's like walking on broken glass. You can do it, but it's better you don't. It's extremely buggy, just play the original. The project needs exposure of any kind (just 49 forks). The guys patrolling on openapoc forums are dedicated, but have virtually no programming skills. As is, we can only hope Istrebitel returns and patches up his work.

If you like slow action choose TB. I prefer it over RT which is fast but can be hectic when multple squads get attacked.
 

Arrowgrab

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My advice:

Embrace the RTwP.

One: you can shoot the instakill headcrab things while they're charging you. Or already leaping.
Two: dual-wielding weapons means twice the firepower. Firepower is love. Firepower is purple.
6a2.gif


Don't invest in ground vehicles.

They're supposed to be a slower but better armored alternative to aircraft. The problem is that ground vehicles get instantly destroyed if the tarmac road underneath them is blown up. And it doesn't matter how well-armoured your tank-car is, the road it's on is very, very fragile to UFO weapons and AFAIK any hit on your vehicle also counts as a hit on the road.

Bases.

You have two kinds of bases: warehouses inside the city walls have relatively little internal space but numerous vehicle ports for rapid takeoff en masse, and are reasonably damage resistant. Tenemets outside the walls have more construction space but are large, easily hit by weapons fire during combat and made of cardboard paper: a single hit to them will destroy several rooms and people inside. I prefer warehouses because you can't guarantee that a dogfight doesn't start right outside your tenement base with lots of missed shots going everywhere.

Be friends with the transport authority faction.

(Whatever their name is.) If they become hostile, new personnel you hire (soldiers, scientists, engineers) CANNOT get to your base to report for duty, since the vehicles they use belong to this faction.
 
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Don't invest in ground vehicles.

They're supposed to be a slower but better armored alternative to aircraft. The problem is that ground vehicles get instantly destroyed if the tarmac road underneath them is blown up. And it doesn't matter how well-armoured your tank-car is, the road it's on is very, very fragile to UFO weapons and AFAIK any hit on your vehicle also counts as a hit on the road.

The Tank is the only land vehicle actually worth it, thing is tough as hell and can arm an immensely powerful plasma cannon. But, yeah, tarmac road.

Ground Vehicles are only worth it if one uses the Road War mod to boost them and make roads indestructible.

Also, I think I once read something during OpenApoc development that there was a bug or something that made Hoverbikes better than they actually are.
 

Jaedar

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I thought psi was allright for making lategame opponents drop their shields and cloaking devices.

Most important thing to know that isn't obvious in game is that ufos will fly around and beam aliens into buildings, and you will not get alerted of aliens being there until after they've spread to nearby buildings, hatched new eggs and generally made a mess of things.

Also, I think I once read something during OpenApoc development that there was a bug or something that made Hoverbikes better than they actually are.
This is funny, because an army unmanned hoverbikes is the best air defense the game has to offer :M
 
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Further hints:

- Once you get the Power Sword (by Week 2 or 3, if I remember right), cherish it and learn how to use it. Its one of the game's most powerful weapons. Its good not only for killing bad guys, but also for destroying obstacles. I liked kiting it alongside the Marsec armor and high TU agents and doing Astartes-style "Steel Rain" attacks.

- Buy all the Inferno Grenades you can. When in the middle of a big enemy ambush, thrown one so the aliens will panic the fuck out. Even agents in fucking Disruptor armor will freak out against fire attacks.

- Hyperworms are horrible, horrible creatures from out of the very pit of hell. You will come to learn the sound they make when they are around, and fear it. I would rather fight double their numbers in Anthropods with Devastators than those damn Hyperworms.


Most important thing to know that isn't obvious in game is that ufos will fly around and beam aliens into buildings, and you will not get alerted of aliens being there until after they've spread to nearby buildings, hatched new eggs and generally made a mess of things.

Its kinda important for him to remember which buildings got alien teleported in, too. Going around doing random inspections will just piss off the Orgs.
 
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Falksi

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Play and enjoy. It's a well underrated game, fucking loads of lush destruction which can occur. Poppers are mint.
 

Cael

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So even tho I have several hundred hours of both X-Com and TFTD, I never got into Apocalypse. While I played the first two games at release, I missed apoc until Steam became a thing and the game just sat on my library ever since. I heard it was an unfinished game, but got better with mods or whatever. Questions:

- Should I run it with OpenApoc?
- Any "vanilla+" mod recommendations?
- Are there any unofficial patches/other third party stuff I need or am I good to go right after Steam is done downloading the game?
- Is the game playable in full TB mode? Because the other game I did play that featured both TB and RTwP (Fo Tatics) had completely different metas, depending on what combat mode you decided to use.
- Any good tutorials/first steps guide around? Because at least the "geoscape" portion of the game is completely different.

Ty in advance
First off, it is a finished game. It is OpenApoc that is unfinished.

1. No to OpenApoc. It is not ready yet.
2. Play vanilla first. You can mod it yourself using an editor later. The game is good enough that I have played it for over a decade without modding it.
3. Not required. See point 2.
4. It is the same. TB and RTwP are two different beasts and any game that offers both will require different metas. TB is pretty much exactly the same as the first two XComs, so is the recommended route for XCom veterans.
5. Playing the original XCom is a good tutorial :D Seriously, though, you shouldn't need it. There are, however, a few things you need to be aware of:

a. The Cult will always be hostile to you. Don't bother trying to be friends with them. The only reason why you shouldn't blow them away ad raid them mercilessly is that they, like you, have friends/enemies status with other organisations and hurting them too badly can turn their friends against you. It is not very quick, but it has been known to happen.
b. Every organisation starts off with a set friend/enemy status. The police and the gangs would never start as friends, for example. Knowing which is which can make your life easier.
c. There are rumours that being friendly with an organisation can give you certain bonuses (better/more troops, more equipment sold, heal faster, etc.), but I have never noticed a difference. However, making an enemy of them WILL make them cut you off and even attack you. Be sure you can handle that organisation cutting you off if you ever find yourself going down that route. The government, the police and the transport guys are particularly bad people to antagonise for very obvious reasons.
d. Speaking of selling equipment, all equipment that you can buy off the market are finite. That's right. If you can run out of bullets for your guns if you go absolutely crazy with the ammo expenditure. The stock refreshes every Monday. The same with vehicles, troopers, scientists and engineers. You don't have an infinite number of them, so becareful how you use them.
e. Explosives are very dangerous in this game, especially the alien ones. A popper or a vortex mine can really ruin your day, and that is before fun stuff like overhead gantries falling down on you or the walkway you are on falling down 8 stories and you with it. Everything on the combat map is held up by something else. You blow or destroy the wrong thing and everything tied to it will come tumbling down, and the organisation who owns the building is going to get really PO'd at you.
f. Similarly, roads and most buildings on the city map are made of futuristic glass. It looks like sturdy concrete but just about anything will blow it up. If your vehicle is under or near the base of a collapsing building, bridge, whatever, expect to kiss it goodbye. However, staying high and shooting down is not a good idea either, because it is now YOU who are damaging the buildings owned by other organisations and they hate that.
g. Rebuilding buildings on the city map is VERY expensive. It is a good way to bankrupt an organisation you hate, but, conversely, it can bankrupt you if your buildings get hit. This only kicks in if there is actually visible damage, so if the shot doesn't blow things up, you are relatively safe.
h. Walk, don't run. Walking doesn't take up stamina. Running does. You don't regenerate stamina in any significant manner while on the battlemap in TB. Once you run out, that's it. You are stuck with walking for the rest of the battle. Flying mitigates this, obviously, but the game is bugged in that if you are out of stamina, you take up walking AP even when flying, so don't run out. Only run when you absolutely have to.

There are more advanced tricks that you can use, but that would take a novel, so I will leave it here. Play a few games then come back once you have the basics down pat.
 

Cael

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In TB mode, the standard human machine gun is a GREAT weapon. While neither the damage nor accuracy are great, the extreme rate of fire (1 AP per shot) lets you put enough rounds downrange to chew through just about anything, while the relatively weak shots limit collateral damage. Amazing weapon in the hands of a low-to-mid TU soldier, but once you get too many TUs, it abruptly jumps to 2 AP a shot (and thus becomes crap). At that point you can give them your alientech cannons until you get the Toxiguns, which have the same property.
TU used per shot is a percentage of the max current TU you have. Weight of equipment lowers your max current TU and is affected by Strength. The most likely reason the TU cost jumped up in the middle of a fight is either you used a grenade or reloaded a weapon. That takes the weight of the grenade/ammo clip off and increased the max current TU. Just pick something up and it will go down again.

I believe that the max current TU for 1TU per shot for the MG is 66. If you get 67 max current TU, it jumps to 2. Therefore, if after you wear your armour and equipped all your weapons and you are sitting on 67+ TU (very possible with high TU, high Strength troopers), just grab a few more grenades or something to bring it down to 66.
 

Darth Roxor

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so has eyestabber started the game yet or is he still data mining until he knows enough to play it for 5 minutes get bored and uninstall
 

Cael

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I thought psi was allright for making lategame opponents drop their shields and cloaking devices.

Most important thing to know that isn't obvious in game is that ufos will fly around and beam aliens into buildings, and you will not get alerted of aliens being there until after they've spread to nearby buildings, hatched new eggs and generally made a mess of things.

Also, I think I once read something during OpenApoc development that there was a bug or something that made Hoverbikes better than they actually are.
This is funny, because an army unmanned hoverbikes is the best air defense the game has to offer :M
I think he is referring to OpenApoc. In normal Apoc, the hoverbike is deadly as hell even armed with the basic Bolter laser. A laser armed hoverbike swarm is your best defence for the first 2-3 weeks, until the high-end UFOs start appearing. Hoverbikes also has two other uses that requires a bit of lateral thinking, but will make your life significantly simpler, but that those are advanced tactics and one requires metagaming.
 

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