Mechanics you wish more games copied?

[Carrion]

The Thing was a terrible game with some neat ideas, one of them being the morale system. If you, say, took a weapon from a party member, his trust in you would decrease, and low-trust party members might refuse to take orders from you or even attack you. Build enough trust (give them a gun and some ammo, heal their wounds, use a blood hypo on yourself to prove you're not the Thing), and they'd follow you to hell without giving it a second thought. Being subjected to horrific stuff might also cause your party members to panic, making them miss their shots, lowering their general effectiveness and in extreme cases causing them to either kill themselves or die of a heart attack.

 

[Gord]

Talking about avoiding save scumming and good mechanics, I liked the drama star system from Frayed Knights:

By completing certain actions, exploring, or combat you would acquire drama points, which would start filling up a meter (represented by three segmented stars).
If you accumulate enough points, you can use them to gain various bonuses, e.g. to boost the next dice roll, to heal a character, etc. Spending more points would unlock better effects.
The catch was that reloading the game would reset the drama points - only exception being when continuing after having quit the game (reloading the same game another time would reset them again).

While the game could be saved relatively freely, this actually gave an incentive to keep playing when you might otherwise reload, since the drama points could be quite useful at times.

 

[Bester]

I like the time limit in Fallout, I think it works well for the game.

Looks like a fetishist thread.

Nobody likes the limit in Fallout, its creators say they regret having put it in.

or face replaying longer segments which is perfectly fine.

Yep. Fetishist thread.

 

[Carrion]

I dislike most time limits, but Fallout's is great in a number of ways. For one, it actually incentivizes exploration. In most RPGs there's not much in-game reason to stop pursuing the main quest, but in FO you'll want to gather every possible clue before setting off to another location, because a pointless trip might cost you weeks of valuable time. Time-management adds another layer of decision-making to the game without making you feel like you have to rush through the game. It also discourages certain scummy tactics like rest-spamming after every fight, at least on your first playthrough.

The devs were morons when they patched it out.

 

[Bester]

For one, it actually incentivizes exploration.

Wrong. You could tell the chip isn't there, so you ran to the next city as fast as possible.
And I actually almost ruined my playthrough, I brought the chip 2 days before the time limit. And I know for a fact that I skipped large parts of the game, unwillingly. I felt being super rushed.

 

[Serus]

I like the time limit in Fallout, I think it works well for the game.

Looks like a fetishist thread.

Nobody likes the limit in Fallout, its creators say they regret having put it in.

or face replaying longer segments which is perfectly fine.

Yep. Fetishist thread.

If I don't like it - it's "fetishist"

For the record - I like(d) the time limit.

For one, it actually incentivizes exploration.

Wrong. You could tell the chip isn't there, so you ran to the next city as fast as possible.
And I actually almost ruined my playthrough, I brought the chip 2 days before the time limit. And I know for a fact that I skipped large parts of the game, unwillingly. I felt being super rushed.

I don't know what you did to push your limits to only 2 days but it sounds fantastic. Means that it provided meaningful tension to your gameplay. What's not to like.

In reality though the limit was so generous that you could explore everything the game has to offer on first attempt unless you abuse the system somehow, or spend weeks aimlessly walking in the desert looking for random encounters. Which is exactly one of the things that time limits are meant to prevent.

 

[Bester]

In reality though the limit was so generous that you could explore everything

Wrong. I had to skip large parts of the game just to get the chip in time.

Means that it provided meaningful tension to your gameplay.

I had meta tension that I was going to load some really old save just to get the chip in time once I knew where it was.

Anything meta is fucking bad.

 

[octavius]

Haven't read whole thread (which subject matter gives me deja vu) so it may have been mentioned:

Monsters fleeing if much lower level than party, like in for example Might&Magic 2.

More glass cannons a la Outlaws than the much more common hit point sponges that really becomes boring.

Fighting hordes of enemies a la Doom 1 and 2 and Might and Magic 6, instead of them politely awaiting their turns like in Blade and other dancing movies.

 

[Reinhardt]

Monsters fleeing if much lower level than party.

I liked when is Sacred with some items equipped low level monsters just died when close to hero.

 

[bataille]

In reality though the limit was so generous that you could explore everything

Wrong. I had to skip large parts of the game just to get the chip in time.

Means that it provided meaningful tension to your gameplay.

I had meta tension that I was going to load some really old save just to get the chip in time once I knew where it was.

Anything meta is fucking bad.

Anxiety is a hell of a fun ruiner...

I don't know why others like time limits, but for me it provides the excitement that's lacking in games without such restrictions. I don't think that the goal of a game is to check all the boxes next to things like 'visited every location' or 'completed all side quests' and on top of that do that at your leasure. A time limit forces you to improvise, take risks, not be able to use the optimal routes and strategies (I don't think there has ever been a game that isn't trivialized if you approach it in a rational and calm manner, which is a huge detractor from the experience in my opinion).

Dead Rising without its time restriction is pretty dull and uninsrpiring; while being constantly urged to hurry up pushed the game in a different direction, accentuated tension that's inherent to such extreme situations, and alleviated the fact that it's just another kinda open world game where you can spend 50 hours lazily gutting stupid zombies while ogling at such exciting wonders as sports goods stores. It showed that even just above average games can be made much more appealing by contextualizing otherwise boring gameplay.

But I guess you need to have a particular disposition or temperament for such things in games. Anyway, time limits have provided me with quite a few memorable playthroughs that otherwise would have been more forgettable.

 

[Mark Richard]

I dislike most time limits, but Fallout's is great in a number of ways. For one, it actually incentivizes exploration. In most RPGs there's not much in-game reason to stop pursuing the main quest, but in FO you'll want to gather every possible clue before setting off to another location, because a pointless trip might cost you weeks of valuable time. Time-management adds another layer of decision-making to the game without making you feel like you have to rush through the game. It also discourages certain scummy tactics like rest-spamming after every fight, at least on your first playthrough.

The devs were morons when they patched it out.

I like the idea of a journey that's not to be undertaken lightly. In a world where life is a constant struggle, bouncing back and forth between towns without a care takes the sting out of the radscorpion.

For one, it actually incentivizes exploration.

Wrong. You could tell the chip isn't there, so you ran to the next city as fast as possible.

That tunnel vision. You must be a blast at D&D.

Your party enters the city. The cobblestone road leads past an impressive array of shops and taverns. One tavern in particular catches your attention. 'The Blind Pig' has a somewhat rough reputation, but there's bound to be work here for the hardy adventurer.

I enter and ask about my personal quest.

You find no information about that here, but Lord Malady is offeri-

I leave the city.

... it's a 2 week journey to the next town. Don't you want to ply your trade? Gain experience? Increase your resources?

I don't understand anything you just said.

 

[octavius]

So since we are on the topic of saving. What is the best saving mechanic you have seen? I like the dark souls model but I don't know how well it would work on a real RPG.

I like the Wizardry and Bard's Tale system.
Only save at the Adventer's Guils/Tavern, manage your resources in each battle, and the game never being truly over, since you can always assemble a new party from the guild.

I also liked the system in Dark Heart of Uukrul, with saving only at sanctuaries, and the levels in between being of unpredictable size and shape. It certainly makes things more nerve wracking!

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

This not a mechanic by itself I think, but I really like this:



Some time ago I read something about certain games with parts on it that supposedly put you on danger. Like those climbing sections in nuTomb raider and similar games where everything is crumbling. The issue is about how these parts tend to be just props, and usually don't get real hazards to te player. I mean, in nuTomb raider you play those sections as a deseperate Lara climbing for her survival in a crumbling scenario, but you almost never get hit by a rock or something. The gameplay challenge is just the climbing, not the climbing plus the hazard of the things falling that can hit you and kill you. The reason I like what Alien Isolation does is because you can met the alien before it officially appears in game in one of those "fake just atmosphere" moments, making it not just a prop. Making the hazard a real thing since the beginning of the game. Not sure if I explained myself well.

 

[HansDampf]

I can't remember any game that had such a tight time limit that it turned into an inconvenience. It's usually well tested and balanced, and most games offer extensions in some form.

 

[Don Peste]

Killing party members (Ishar Trilogy).

 

[Ulfhednar]

SNES Ogre Battle - Having a horde of mooks whose character progression/stat growth was tied to your strategic actions in game was pretty unique, and challenging to master as it played out throughout the campaign. Game had some problems, but had several good ideas I have never seen repeated.

 

[Chippy]

Working stealth from...
ah,,,
BG1.
Phew.

 

[Carrion]

I can't remember any game that had such a tight time limit that it turned into an inconvenience.

There are probably tons if you go outside the RPG genre and delve into old arcade games, but there are different ways you can implement a time limit. In Fallout time is something you only really have to consider when travelling and, to a lesser extent, resting. You can't realistically fuck up your playthrough by spending too much time talking to the people of Shady Sands or doing side quests in The Hub, because at most you'll only waste a few hours of your initial 150-day time limit. A player who tries to find the water chip as quickly as possible, running across the desert like a headless chicken (not pointing any fingers, but I'm talking about Bester), will actually burn through the time limit much faster than a more methodical player who takes his time with each location and puts some thought on where he wants to go next. It'd be different if you introduced a time limit to a Bethesda "Fallout" game, where the flow of in-game time is heavily accelerated and directly proportional to the amount of time you've spent playing the game — that might indeed create some unwanted pressure and cause you to rush through content.

 

[Lady_Error]

Competing NPC parties like in Wizardry 7 and now in Grimoire.

Time limits are good maybe for a specific dungeon, but not for the overall game.

 

[HansDampf]

There are probably tons if you go outside the RPG genre and delve into old arcade games, but there are different ways you can implement a time limit. In Fallout time is something you only really have to consider when travelling and, to a lesser extent, resting. You can't realistically fuck up your playthrough by spending too much time talking to the people of Shady Sands or doing side quests in The Hub, because at most you'll only waste a few hours of your initial 150-day time limit. A player who tries to find the water chip as quickly as possible, running across the desert like a headless chicken (not pointing any fingers, but I'm talking about Bester), will actually burn through the time limit much faster than a more methodical player who takes his time with each location and puts some thought on where he wants to go next. It'd be different if you introduced a time limit to a Bethesda "Fallout" game, where the flow of in-game time is heavily accelerated and directly proportional to the amount of time you've spent playing the game — that might indeed create some unwanted pressure and cause you to rush through content.

Yes. I was mainly thinking about long games, RPGs, action adventures and the like. Examples:
Fallout gives you plenty of time to find the chip if you travel efficiently, and you can extend the timer by sending water to your vault.
Star Control II is similar in that time only passes quickly in Hyperspace. You can delay the Kohr-Ah - and the Game Over Event - by sending other alien species to fight them. And even after the Kohr-Ah won their battle you'd still have some time left before they conquer everything.
Majora's Mask has the 3-day-cycle that you have to repeat over and over, and the NPCs are all on a schedule. Many casual OoT fans complain about it being stressful and unplayable for them. But with the Inverted Song of Time one cycle will last almost 3 hours real time. That's more than enough to tackle any quest or dungeon in the game, you just have to plan ahead sometimes.
More games could use timed events like this. It makes the world more believable when it isn't always waiting for The Hero to make a move.

 

[Ebonsword]

I don't think anyone has mentioned the Nemesis system from Shadows of Mordor/Shadows of War.

That mechanic is awesome. They did a great job giving personality and interest to what are really just bundles of randomly generated stats.

As far as I know, nobody has copied it yet, which is surprising.