Which specific changes to BG2 would you make for (an imaginary) BG3 ?

[ItsChon]

"I would have never gotten into these games without the EE's" meaning you are just a sucker for media hype. Nothing wrong with that per se, but you need to know yourself.

Nah. I found BG and IWD on my own while looking over D&D stuff as I was considering playing in a tabletop group. I bought and downloaded the originals, and after about thirty minutes or so, I couldn't get past how poorly the game had aged in regards to its UI and graphics. Did some more digging and the EE's were perfect. The hype isn't what got me into the games, it was the updated graphics which allowed me to properly experience everything they had to offer that got me into them.

Also doesn't address the fact there is nothing inherently wrong with releasing an EE if it isn't done in a teasing/disingenuous manner; especially for games as old as the ones we're talking about. I wish IWD:2 had an EE. I might still give it a go even without one, but an EE would make the experience 10x better.

 

[Ninjerk]

As a side note, people on this forum seem to be really biased against EE releases for some reason, and I can understand a bit of that if you were around when these games first came out. I'll be frank however, I would have never gotten into these games without the EE's. The original UI's and blurry graphics were such a barrier that needs to be fixed without mods.

I don't know what the fascination with turn based combat is.

Another reason not to like EEs.

 

[Lilura]

I'll be frank however,

Those with appallingly bad taste should never be frank on the 'Dex. Please keep it to yourself next time.

I would have never gotten into these games without the EE's. The original UI's and blurry graphics were such a barrier that needs to be fixed without mods.

The EEs tend to breed such zoological specimens.

Also, Joined: Yesterday.

Heavy sigh.

 

[ItsChon]

Two people masturbating each other because of how long they've been on an internet forum.

Heavy sigh.

Appallingly bad taste? Because I like the EE's? Yeah, because revamping the graphics and UI of a then 14 year old game is such a bad thing. Or maybe it's because I don't want to vary from a formula that's showed consistent success in the BG and IWD series, as well as PS:T? Making the combat turn based would do absolutely nothing to change the nature of the game, short of catering to the people who prefer that sort of combat. I don't want to go into a separate, controlled instance each time a fight happens. It breaks the flow of the game, and the only real complaint I can see with RTwP combat is if you're short a chromosome or two so micromanaging units for all of five seconds takes too much effort.

And even if you were to change the combat, that's secondary to what I was saying in the first place. The combat is a means to an end. Fun in short bursts, but there is a reason people enjoy PS:T or BG over IWD as a general rule of thumb. The story is what people play the games for, and everything else is there to facilitate it. I see no real reason why an engine change is mandatory to enjoy CRPG's.

 

[Outlander]

That avatar should be fucking retired ^

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

I couldn't fucking stand IE games and tried to get into BG three different times over the past 15 years or so. Last week I tried the EE version and was instantly hooked. Just finished Dragonspear and starting BG2 later today.

 

[Marten Broadcloak]

Narrow down your BG2 criticisms to a few specific ones you see as major flaws which if fixed would make for a much better TRUE rpg experience.

Nice try, Josh, but I'm not going to do your work for free.

 

[Theldaran]

I don't know what the fascination with turn based combat is. A lot of what needs to be fixed with BG was already touched upon in this thread; I.E, fix the economy, improve dialogue options so that there are wildly different outcomes, AI etc. Make the exact same game with a completely new story and setting, and it'll be amazing.

What do you mean, "fixed"? Can't you enjoy playing a 20-year old game with the caveat that it's from a different era of gaming? Why should BG be dumbed down in the modern way? It looks like you think past conditions were like the present, and thus you ignore the story of videogames. Inform yourself better.

BG doesn't need to be "improved" because it's a 20-year old saga that needs to stop being milked. It belonged in the community's hands, with mods and so. You seem to be implying someone should do a modern RPG with all its faults but somehow call it "Baldur's Gate 3". Nope, that isn't relevant anymore.

BG was made in an environment with no widespread internet and no guides until early 2000s, where you were pitted against the game with lots of resources you had to unlock. Wildly different from now.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

I'd make it a fighting game.

Stop spamming Magic Missiles with Edwin, fucker.

 

[PorkBarrellGuy]

I'd make it a fighting game.

Stop spamming Magic Missiles with Edwin, fucker.

HADOKEN

wait isn't Evocation/Invocation a forbidden school for Conjurers in 2E

 

[Theldaran]

wait isn't Evocation/Invocation a forbidden school for Conjurers in 2E

It's Divination, effectively making them supermen.

 

[ItsChon]

What do you mean, "fixed"? Can't you enjoy playing a 20-year old game with the caveat that it's from a different era of gaming? Why should BG be dumbed down in the modern way? It looks like you think past conditions were like the present, and thus you ignore the story of videogames. Inform yourself better.

BG doesn't need to be "improved" because it's a 20-year old saga that needs to stop being milked. It belonged in the community's hands, with mods and so. You seem to be implying someone should do a modern RPG with all its faults but somehow call it "Baldur's Gate 3". Nope, that isn't relevant anymore.

BG was made in an environment with no widespread internet and no guides until early 2000s, where you were pitted against the game with lots of resources you had to unlock. Wildly different from now.

I should have put fixed in quotations as you did. I don't think BG should be dumbed down at all, but pretending that there aren't places of improvement is just not true. How would improving the AI, fine tuning the economy a bit, and improving dialogue tree's dumb down BG? And where did I even mention making a modern RPG? My whole point is that this 20-year old game is amazing the way it is, and the only "changes" that would need to be made are minor adjustments. Just make the same exact game with new characters, new places to explore, and a new story, and it'd be infinitely better then the RPG's coming out right now. That is my argument.

Don't get me wrong, if none of these things were "fixed" tweaked, I would still love and play the games. I don't even think they're necessary fixes, I merely mentioned them because the point of the thread is about specific changes.

 

[Orobis]

Every character comes equipped with the gender bender belt and it can't be removed.

 

[CRPG Fanatic 101]

Why should BG be dumbed down in the modern way?

Instead, ideally, it should be smartened UP in a way which adds maturity (in the overall dialogue and in not having recruitable NPC's like Aerie), depth (in implementing polarized choices and consequences) and improved mechanics (smooth pathfinding, more character tweaking on level-up). BG3 (yes, imaginary) should (if it could) be BG2 on hardcore CRPG steroids. IOW, BG2 all grown up.

 

[Tigranes]

"there is nothing inherently wrong with releasing an EE if it isn't done in a teasing/disingenuous manner;"

I agree. The problem is precisely that every single Beamdog EE is disingenious, useless, and pointless.

 

[ItsChon]

I agree. The problem is precisely that every single Beamdog EE is disingenious, useless, and pointless.

While I can't comment on the disingenuous part, as I wasn't following the game/hype at the time the EE was being released, but it definitely wasn't useless/pointless. It opened up an entirely new demographic of people to enjoy the game that previously couldn't due to the aged UI and graphics.

Just because you're twenty-thirty years old and were around to play/enjoy these old games when they were new, doesn't mean anyone that can't enjoy them in their original state is a fucking mook. Graphics/UI aren't everything, but they do matter.

 

[Tigranes]

ItsChon The problem is not that somebody dared to produce a new version of an old game. The problem is that what they produced is shit.

Take the BG:EE UI. It looks awful. Not only does it look like a garish and kitsch mutilation of the original style, it actually commits all sorts of idiotic errors on a technical level, like inconsistent spacing of text elements relative to the window borders, that is simple professional incompetence before any question of taste.

Whereas the original BG UI really has no major problems for modern playability. While there are some games that really benefit from getting a new control scheme, proper mouse support, etc., the BG:EE UI is essentially a trade of a couple of nice, minor functions for a garish look and mostly useless changes.

 

[ItsChon]

I liked the UI in BG:EE a lot more than in the original BG, so to each his own I guess. The updated resolution was essential for BG, and I preferred the UI in EE over the original. But we veered off from talking about changes to BG into EE. Would you disagree with any of my claims regarding a new BG or even RPG?

 

[Theldaran]

I should have put fixed in quotations as you did. I don't think BG should be dumbed down at all, but pretending that there aren't places of improvement is just not true. How would improving the AI, fine tuning the economy a bit, and improving dialogue tree's dumb down BG? And where did I even mention making a modern RPG? My whole point is that this 20-year old game is amazing the way it is, and the only "changes" that would need to be made are minor adjustments. Just make the same exact game with new characters, new places to explore, and a new story, and it'd be infinitely better then the RPG's coming out right now. That is my argument.

Don't get me wrong, if none of these things were "fixed" tweaked, I would still love and play the games. I don't even think they're necessary fixes, I merely mentioned them because the point of the thread is about specific changes.

Yeah, because we're way too lazy to make a new game that has all of that. Instead, we keep flogging the dead horse from 20 years ago.

That's Beamdogshit for you.

 

[ItsChon]

-snip-

You good bruh? How would making a game with a new title, a new story, new characters, etc, be flogging a dead horse? Name an engine that's better than what IE does?

 

[Theldaran]

-snip-

You good bruh? How would making a game with a new title, a new story, new characters, etc, be flogging a dead horse? Name an engine that's better than what IE does?

What a retardo. Using the IE nowadays is a big no-no. Even around 2003 they felt they had overused it. Even Obsidian moved on from it with POE, and used a modern engine.

For your information, IE is extraordinarily limited, being an ancient engine. That also hampered the EE themselves. Also Beamdogshit is turning the games into something they were not.

 

[Lilura]

Even Obsidian moved on from it with POE, and used a modern engine.

After they made mods for Aurora, Odyssey and Gaymbryo. And yet, in their original state the Infinity Engine games are more playable than PoE, or even MotB (Obsidian's only good campaign).

That also hampered the EE themselves

Actually, it was the innate strength and stability along with the community-developed modability of the IE that allowed those bums to release anything at all (not to mention sponging off the preexistent community that had already achieved so much).

 

[Theldaran]

No no, there's no point in using that old engine in a brand new game. It would have limitations imposed by its age, no matter what you mod out of it. IE was good... for its time. However, if you want to milk off BG until nothing remains, and its loyal crowd is pissed off eternally, then it makes sense to hack IE... that's what Beamdogshit is doing.

Also POE's downside is the combat mechanics themselves, not the engine... the graphics please the modern graphic whore kids.

The only reason why Beamdogshit is tinkering with IE instead of releasing a brand new game in a brand new engine, is because it's trodden ground for them, and they lack any talent to do otherwise.

 

[ItsChon]

What a retardo. Using the IE nowadays is a big no-no. Even around 2003 they felt they had overused it. Even Obsidian moved on from it with POE, and used a modern engine.

Yeah, because PoE turned out so well. PoE was shit, and the combat system in the old IE games felt way smoother. You can't make a claim like "Using IE is a no-no" and then not substantiate it. Why is it a no-no? Can you name a single fucking reason? You're going to sit here and tell me that if we found out another say PS:T 2 had been created but was just now getting released, same everything as PS:T 1 but with a completely new setting story and characters, and the writing was as excellent as the original, you wouldn't play it? Bullshit.

No no, there's no point in using that old engine in a brand new game. It would have limitations imposed by its age, no matter what you mod out of it. IE was good... for its time. However, if you want to milk off BG until nothing remains, and its loyal crowd is pissed off eternally, then it makes sense to hack IE... that's what Beamdogshit is doing.

Milk off BG? IWD and PS:T ran on the same fucking engine. Using IE wouldn't be milking shit. And you mention limitations from the engine, but looking through this thread you didn't name a single fucking thing that you would really change from the old BG games. The engine is fine, what actual gameplay changes do you want that couldn't be facilitated by IE?

 

[Theldaran]

POE being shit isn't related in any way to the engine... would it have been better with IE, retard?

You're going in circles. You said you liked pretty games, so you went EE. So you should like POE's smoother engine and graphics. I understand if you don't like the shitty story or combat, but the graphics are alright.

Using IE right now is as if Nintendo used Ocarina of Time's engine for Breath of the Wild... you can go so far with a 20-year old engine. You'd actually produce a dated, indie game, except IE back then was triple A. Using it now is lazy.

About "improving" IE to produce modern graphics, you'd probably have to rewrite so much that you'd effectively create a new engine. My point is, POE was a tribute to BG, they didn't use an extension of IE for a very good reason.

I wouldn't change BG or IWD or PS:T because they're classics and should stay that way. Producing a game in the same exact vein 20 years later would be retarded.