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Best version of Final Fantasy Tactics?

Doktor Best

Arcane
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
2,849
So i think its time for me to play one of the most appraised S-RPGs. I have only played Tactics Advance for a few hours and found it to be mediocre so my interest in playing the original dropped quite a bit, but as people often mention how much better it is than its successors, i am willing to give it a shot now.

Information i have collected so far:

-The game has levelscaling and i really hate levelscaling, but as far as i am informed, story encounters have a set level so i can live with it if the game is really good otherwise i suppose....

-PS1 version has shit translation

-PSP version has much better translation but suffers from slowdowns. There is a patch that fixes it to some extent

-There is a pretty popular mod called FFT 1.3 which increases the difficulty and rebalances the game. It also changes story encounters to also be levelscaled (and even equipmentscaled) which is retarded and a huge turn-off for me. Some people also complain it is needlessly tedious due to some insane difficulty spikes

-There is also a tuned down version of FFT 1.3 called FFT 1.3 content, which changes story encounters back to static level, but there is only a version available for the ps1 version with the shit translation



Sooooo my conclusion so far is that "FFT 1.3 content" on PS1 would be the best version for me gameplaywise but comes with an at times incomprehensible storyline because Japanese are too retarded to engrish their games. Its a shame really that all this modding autism and effort put into polishing the game couldnt provide a definitive version, unless i missed something that is known to every FFT fan of course?
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,811
Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together

FFT is just poor mans tactics ogre.

as for FFT just standard PSP version with patch to fix slowdown.
 

flabbyjack

Arcane
Joined
Jul 15, 2004
Messages
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Location
the area around my keyboard
My first couple playthroughs of FFT I was sure to get Ramza (main PC) in every battle, and even grinded side missions to raise his level.

BAD IDEA. It turns out the game scales every encounter to Ramza's level, making even simple missions become impossible.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
14,983
FFT has some moderately complex mechanics that aren't very intuitive. Mastery of these mechanics is the difference between finding even the normal game difficult at some points and finding it so trivially easy you can solo the entire thing with just one character using only abilities from a single class. Level scarcely even matters in the game tbh- the difference between a level 50 and level 99 character might be 50% more damage and 20% more hp and speed, with no change at all in evasion or accuracy or abilities or movement. The difference between a level 1 and level 50 character is equally trivial, and if you're not specifically trying to grind you'll probably finish the game around level 40. Equipment changes things a lot more, but mostly it's all down to class and ability interactions. Pretty sure the equipment scaling in 1.3 is for player benefit, so you can steal gear to match your level if you're trying to do some weird artificial challenge. 1.3's challenge is mostly down to giving bosses actual defensive setups so they don't all die in one normal attack, and fixing some (but not all) of the broken exploits that trivialize the game.

The script rewrite is retarded in a lot of ways too, but it's definitely better than the hackjob of
t h e o r i g i n a l.

Which aside from some grating bugs in the text display speed during certain scenes also featured such skillful translations as breath > bracelet (not just once... everywhere. Fire bracelet attacks, an instant death 'stop bracelet' move.. clearly a machine translation) and the dramatic summoning of the ancient evil undead known as the 'Rich'. Also some weapons with elements swapped for no reason... theres a ton of stuff.

The slowdown in combat on the psp is incredibly annoying too though. If the patch fixes it for the most part, go with that.
 

Doktor Best

Arcane
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
2,849
Okay so that was already pretty informative so far, thanks bros. Currently i'm tending towards PSP vanilla with slowdown patch and some self challenges. Is permadeath a good idea for this game? What OP classes/combos/npcs should i avoid?

-PS1 version has shit translation

-PSP version has much better translation but suffers from slowdowns. There is a patch that fixes it to some extent
Bzzt. You're wrong. Blame yourself or God.

How so?
 

troupeg

Educated
Joined
May 10, 2018
Messages
81
Okay so that was already pretty informative so far, thanks bros. Currently i'm tending towards PSP vanilla with slowdown patch and some self challenges. Is permadeath a good idea for this game? What OP classes/combos/npcs should i avoid?

-PS1 version has shit translation

-PSP version has much better translation but suffers from slowdowns. There is a patch that fixes it to some extent
Bzzt. You're wrong. Blame yourself or God.

How so?

A lot of people on this forum are nostalgia blind retards, so you see a lot of "This isn't what I played when I was a kid, therefore it's bad" mentality. But you joined 3 years ago so you probably know that. I've been a lurker since 2007 so you haven't seen the worst yet.

Play the PSP version. It has a better translation that doesn't suffer from PS1 era not caring
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
14,983
Playing the game ironman should be fine, even when a character dies you might get a chance to inherit their skills so it's not necessarily even a big loss. Generally speaking, it's unlikely that you'll lose a character but win the map if your party has ways to revive people, as the timer for going from 0 hp to permadeath is fairly generous.

As for what OP things to avoid, that's pretty much up to how good you are at exploiting things and how much of a challenge you want. I'd say don't go out of your way to grind and don't use Cid or Worker 8, as they're both pretty broken. Aside from that, you probably won't discover anything too utterly gamebreaking on your own. Don't read tips on how to make the bestest most OP characters ever, there's a million ways to do that. If you find yourself having trouble, the game's help system is very good, lots of details on all the stats and mechanics. Don't bother delving into it if you're not struggling though, you might get tempted to get really cheesy.

Or do get cheesy as fuck, if you enjoy that sort of thing. Part of the charm of the game is the feeling of mastery when you go from having random shits squeeking by to some sort of wargod roaming the field obliterating everyone because you combined just the right set of equipment and abilities.
 

L'Montes

Educated
Joined
May 6, 2018
Messages
160
The PSP version also cuts the flavor text from combat actions. There was some RNG chance on using an ability in the original (and, it should be said, all versions of the JP game) to prompt your unit to spout a line related to the ability.

48-capture_25122010_232147.png


Obviously... not exactly Shakespeare, but it seemed worth mentioning that as with many "new translations", they couldn't be arsed to actually finish the damn thing. Also, while the PS1 version's translation is clearly sloppy, the PSP translation can be a bit on the purple prose and overwrought side. Nostalgia aside, there's some amusement value to the older script.

Slowdown is sort of underselling it too. It didn't just perform poorly, it de-synced on-screen actions and audio among other things. I haven't seen if the patch completely fixes both the slowdown and desync, but I can recall how poorly it ran even ripped from UMD to flash memory back in the day.

I'd second Tactics Ogre as the generally better game (either translation too, the PS1 Atlus one complete with Star Wars references or the later PSP one). Even without trying to break things, FFT was a fundamentally poorly balanced game. It tried to have abilities (like Black Magic, say) that had both costs and charge times exist alongside things like Holy Sword abilities that were instant/AoE/free, and that's just sort of the base level stuff. Not every game tactics game needs to be balanced or difficult I guess though.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
14,983
Yeah, getting the quotes on a particularly good spell felt pretty good, sad they removed that. I think the lack of balance in the game isn't a big deal- finding the powerful stuff was part of the fun. It'd be kinda lame if the most powerful swordsman in the land joins your party and he's half as effective as the random shitter knight you trained up.

I generally just found the mechanics of FFT far, far more interesting. Timing attacks and spells, combining the abilities of different classes in effective ways, and generally having a large difference between classes. The difference between classes like the monk, dragoon, and the ninja is pretty vast and those are just melee classes. TO felt pretty dull in that regard- the difference between a ninja, berserker, terror knight and so on was basically just stat growths and I think ninjas got some shitty magic while terror knights had some weak attack reduction aura. And of course, one knight is exactly the same as another, ability wise, unlike FFT where you might have given him magic or the ability to steal items or whatever. The maps were much better with a lot more cover and chokepoints as well.
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
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Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
FF fans (and anime fans in general) are notorious for preferring any translation that is worse than the original simply because it's more recent.

Never, EVER, believe JRPG fans who tell you to play the more recent translation of an JRPG because that means it is more literal and less complex of a translation ordered by a publisher from a low-end translation team, because whatever game they're re-translating is just a cheap cash-grab for nostalgia dollars or for mobile.

The original translations are always superior because they were done by a more professional, more proficient translation team because it was ordered for a game launching for the first time and with expectations of global sales. It usually features more localization in its translation because of this, and because of this it also means it is usually better than the more literal, less-localized re-translation.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
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Messages
14,983
While I agree in general, some games/anime do have some exceptionally terrible translations to begin with. FFT's story translation isn't that bad, but the item/spell/etc. translation was terrible. Hell, look at the quote just above my last post- they translated it as Steady Sword instead of Stasis Sword. It's not even consistent within the game itself. That's not a matter of localization, it's just bad work. Ditto for t h e l i o n w a r and a million other details they missed. I think BoF2 also had a notoriously bad translation, but I was so young when I played through it that I didn't even notice.
 
Repressed Homosexual
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
17,867
Location
Ottawa, Can.
I have to disagree completely on that one, the original FFT one was just awful and missed a ton of references, and had tons of incoherent phrases that barely meant anything. It made the plot almost incomprehensible. It was still from a time where videogame translation was seen as unimportant, a quick job given to a bunch of neophytes with almost no resources.

The one from the PSP and iOS/Android version might be very flowery, but it tops the old one so much it is not even funny. It was made by Alexander O. Smith's studio. This guy is a genius, easily the best translator of Japanese games of all time. He was the first to treat translation of videogames as a true labor of love and made sure he had month, or ideally more than a year to dedicate to it. He was in constant contact with Matsuno, had all his notes, and he also lived in Japan for a long while, so he understands the cultural references and context of Japanese society.

And I know people who say the PSOne translation is "superior" are just high on nostalgia, because I only played the PSP version (and later the Android version), so for me it is the one I am nostalgic about.
 
Last edited:

L'Montes

Educated
Joined
May 6, 2018
Messages
160
Yeah, getting the quotes on a particularly good spell felt pretty good, sad they removed that. I think the lack of balance in the game isn't a big deal- finding the powerful stuff was part of the fun. It'd be kinda lame if the most powerful swordsman in the land joins your party and he's half as effective as the random shitter knight you trained up.

I generally just found the mechanics of FFT far, far more interesting. Timing attacks and spells, combining the abilities of different classes in effective ways, and generally having a large difference between classes. The difference between classes like the monk, dragoon, and the ninja is pretty vast and those are just melee classes. TO felt pretty dull in that regard- the difference between a ninja, berserker, terror knight and so on was basically just stat growths and I think ninjas got some shitty magic while terror knights had some weak attack reduction aura. And of course, one knight is exactly the same as another, ability wise, unlike FFT where you might have given him magic or the ability to steal items or whatever. The maps were much better with a lot more cover and chokepoints as well.

I think the "right way" to do it (as far as special NPCs) was maybe to give them higher potential later on or to require you to jump through some hoops to unlock them. That's closer to how TO handles it really, where your choices in the story determine what story characters you recruit. Some of them are potentially very strong, but they aren't game-breaking in the way that Cid might be (for example).

I think it's satisfying to break a game open mechanically as much as the next person, I think difference with FFT is that the game is so broken fundamentally on a base level. You can read up online on specific exploits people love with level up/down, calculators, etc., but my point is that you don't even really have to do that to experience the brokenness.

That being said, I can appreciate that the mechanics/abilities/effects in FFT definitely feel a lot more interesting and impactful than the base in Tactics Ogre (I loved that aspect of FFT myself). The SNES/PS1 version especially had generally uninteresting fare (the PSP version is more complex and added additional mechanics). It's hard to completely compare them 1:1 though. FFT always limits you to 5 units (sometimes less), which actively discourages you from using units outside a small core (and using monster units, mounts, and abilities that interacted with them like monster-training-type). TO is a lot more free in this context, which makes it easier to justify bringing a fairy, ghost, or other odd class types. Honestly, as mentioned, the PSP version changes so much about the classes/mechanics that it's much more of a different game than WotL is to OG FFT.

FFT as a franchise started balancing a bit better (at the base level, you could still break it) in the portable iterations, the story and flow just nosedived (imho).
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
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The problem with jap translation is that translating from pictograph symbolical system to a latin one requires much more than literal translation work. It requires interpretation work. Newer out-sourced translations are indeed more accurate, but they're also usually (a generalization here, obviously)-- usually much more literal, more terse and stilted or lacking in appropriate ambiguity.

The main problems with older translations of JRPGs almost entirely stem from editorial directives mandating avoidance of certain topics, censorship and more importantly a lack of memory space for the actual language in the cartridge or disc. A more literal or more "accurate" translation is only as good as the overall interpretation of the script.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
14,983
My posterchild for this is always Chrono Trigger- renaming the Grandleon to the Masamune was a brilliant move, because it accurately translates the sense of it being an exotic name. This goes for a bunch of character names as well. Ozzie, Flea, and Slash are names that fit their goofy characters so well. Sara would have been a retarded name for a princess from an atlantean uber civilization for an english audience. These are the kinds of details you'd only get if you've played/developed the game, and you miss entirely if you're just translating a script as you read it.
 

spekkio

Arcane
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
8,278
Fuck Tactics Ogre and FFT, real niggas back Vandal Hearts II.
You misspelled Der Langrisser. :obviously:

As for the FFT, I would suggest playing original PS1 version, but with PSP translation and fixes:

FFT - Complete

Never played that. Any good?
I would recommend VH1 over VH2. The former is a simple yet fun (only story battles, so no grindan) japtactical game, while the latter has one of the most original, yet weird combat systems as far as such games go (both player and the AI perform actions at the same time).

Again, if any of you want to play a good tactical game, play Der Langrisser (Snes), I had a blast playing it multiple times last year.
 

Doktor Best

Arcane
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
2,849
Fuck Tactics Ogre and FFT, real niggas back Vandal Hearts II.
You misspelled Der Langrisser. :obviously:

As for the FFT, I would suggest playing original PS1 version, but with PSP translation and fixes:

FFT - Complete

Never played that. Any good?
I would recommend VH1 over VH2. The former is a simple yet fun (only story battles, so no grindan) japtactical game, while the latter has one of the most original, yet weird combat systems as far as such games go (both player and the AI perform actions at the same time).

Again, if any of you want to play a good tactical game, play Der Langrisser (Snes), I had a blast playing it multiple times last year.

Der Langrisser is
:updatedmytxt:

About that FFT translation patch. Can i combine it with 1.3?
 

Rahdulan

Omnibus
Patron
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
Messages
5,105
I would recommend VH1 over VH2. The former is a simple yet fun (only story battles, so no grindan) japtactical game, while the latter has one of the most original, yet weird combat systems as far as such games go (both player and the AI perform actions at the same time).

Again, if any of you want to play a good tactical game, play Der Langrisser (Snes), I had a blast playing it multiple times last year.

I would also add Vandal Hearts 2 is probably the closest in tone to TO and FFT in terms of grey morality politicking with regular people caught in the middle of shit they have nothing to do with. Except I guess it's told from a commoner's point of view and I'm a sucker for stories with time skips so that had me from get-go. Synchronous-turn combat is something you get used to in the first hour and if anything it makes the game easier once you understand who reacts when. Bitching largely comes from system being different.
 

L'Montes

Educated
Joined
May 6, 2018
Messages
160
FFT has a mostly fixed plotline. TO and VH2 have forking plotlines (TO to a larger degree... or more impactful degree than VH2 I'd say, ymmv). The PSP version of TO added a feature where you can rewind the game to replay the choices/forks in a different way with the same savefile.

Worth mentioning I think, because having choices that impact the plot or other elements is unusual in JRPGs, generally speaking. VH1 isn't a bad game by any means though, it's just very "basic". I think the series is better known now for geysers of blood than anything else.

vandal-hearts-1.jpg
 

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