Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Which specific changes to BG2 would you make for (an imaginary) BG3 ?

Gregz

Arcane
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
8,540
Location
The Desert Wasteland
1) KoTC/ToEE style crafting

2) Massive class/build diversity (like Pathfinder), solo-able or 8-member party if you want

3) Keep everything D&D (monsters, lore, etc.), but ditch the narrative/VA crap for (open world/no quest lines/real sandbox) approach like Sid Meier's Pirates! or Mount & Blade: Warband

4) RNG artifacts as found in games like Angband & its variants

5) Smart/Deep procedurally generated world and dungeons, featuring set-pieces and encounter design as appropriate
 

Mustawd

Guest
Why? It's stupid.

Inherently stupid or stupid in Gaider's style ? Would it be inherently stupid in mustawdian style as well ?

mustawdian style would just be 100% drunk dialogue. Actually, that doesn’t sound so bad.

I mean party banter is ok tbh. The thing that irks me is that it usually leads to full party creation being thrown out the window. That reminds me:

3) Full party creation as an option.
 

Kev Inkline

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Messages
5,097
A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Turn based with resolve - i.e. issuing your commands to all party members, AI doing the same to all mobs, and then having the round play out at once.

Making all romances gay - so if you really want romances, they are there, it's your choice.
 
Joined
Apr 10, 2018
Messages
6,821
Location
Mouse Utopia
Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In
Nerf Haste, make healing potions interefere with attacks liek they do with spells, hire some modders who made those AI improvement mods, obviously give it higher resolution options etc.

Honestly BG2 doesn't really need to be changed. If they released a brand new adventure in the same engine I'd be fine with that if it had locations, loot, enemies etc on par with the original. Didn't buy EE because I don't appreciate rehashers parasitising off something they had no part of making in the first place.
 

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
Patron
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
1,879,250
Deadfire is probably the closest that we've got to what BG3 could have been. I still like the D&D hard counters and the resulting mage battles more than the Pillars magic system. Many other things in Deadfire are at least on par with BG2 though - the ship travel is a nice addition and even more so the frequent Darklands-style events.
 

Theldaran

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 10, 2015
Messages
1,772
1) KoTC/ToEE style crafting

2) Massive class/build diversity (like Pathfinder), solo-able or 8-member party if you want

3) Keep everything D&D (monsters, lore, etc.), but ditch the narrative/VA crap for (open world/no quest lines/real sandbox) approach like Sid Meier's Pirates! or Mount & Blade: Warband

4) RNG artifacts as found in games like Angband & its variants

5) Smart/Deep procedurally generated world and dungeons, featuring set-pieces and encounter design as appropriate

1) BG2 and TOB crafting was good enough. You felt you got something special each time you crafted something. And those were good magic items most of the time (the Equalizer was pretty meh, for example, and a chore to get all parts).

2) BG2 had enough diversity, especially for its time. NWN with about 10 prestige classes was fine. Pathfinder seems too munchkin to me (but that also can be fun).

Probably nowadays the preferred system would be 5ED and I don't know how that handles multiclassing and prestige classes, I guess they're still around.

3) It still needs a bare minimum of a plot. BG1 was serviceable. BG2 was okay-ish but a little bit below, and Irenicus was pretty meh, especially when you learn about him.

4) I don't know about these RNG "artifacts", because Angband had its heyday before I was born. But random loot like in IWD can be done without much hassle and enables replayability and more different playthroughs.

5) No procedural shit, please. Point me to a good procedural game. Hand-placed is always best, even if the game is short as a fart (but please, let it be replayable).

BG3 was already planned ("The Black Hound"), and oh boy, it was to be very different from the first two. More dependent on the writing and atmosphere, when Black Isle/Bioware writers still were decent. But they moved on to do a shitty OC like NWN1*, so maybe it would have been a major disappointment. The game was very ambitious, and I don't see how the narrative could have worked with a violent, hundred-monster-killing game system in the BG vein. It could possibly have been more mutilated than BG2, on par with KOTOR2.

It seems that essentially the story was a re-hash of BG2 where instead of chasing Irenicus you chase the eponymous Black Hound, or maybe it chases you.

(*): I guess that some writers departed when Interplay came down crashing.
 

Dedup

Augur
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
146
Turn based combat.

No romances.

More interesting non-combat interactions with attribute and skill checks. There should also be the opportunity to creatively use spells for non-combat purposes.

A dynamic main quest that can possibly change the world state as time passes depending on your actions or inaction.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,550
What a stupid thread. It would be a miracle if an hypothetical BG3 would even be able to approach BG2, and there's no such thing as miracles in the age we live in. Expect something with worse writing, worse combat, worse design etc.
 

laclongquan

Arcane
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
1,870,150
Location
Searching for my kidnapped sister
1. The Bhaalspawn story is done. FINISHED! No need to return to that period of time.
2. The BUILDING of Baldur's Gate city is not told yet. You can be a party that help Baldur (NPC) build his city. You can be female, Baldur's mistress, or male, Baldur's sidekick.
3. A dynamic main quest that can possibly change the world state as time passes depending on your actions or inaction. Would the Cloakwood mines come into existent at that time, or not? Your action.
4. All in all, a better game than NWN2OC would be good. And this time the Keep (ie the BG city) is the main focus of the game instead of a side quest.
 

Theldaran

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 10, 2015
Messages
1,772
Turn based combat.

No romances.

More interesting non-combat interactions with attribute and skill checks. There should also be the opportunity to creatively use spells for non-combat purposes.

A dynamic main quest that can possibly change the world state as time passes depending on your actions or inaction.

BG saga never had any of those things. Skill- or class-based dialogue was present in IWD2, I think (to some degree), and in NWN, so they can implement that. Still, obscure content that's hard to unlock comes across as stupid and a waste of effort. I don't think they'd go this way. I prefer that they do sounder content unlockable by every class.

As for the idea of setting it on the foundation of Baldur's Gate city proper, that's strange. Original BG built upon a derivative of a well-known FR saga such as the Time of Troubles, BG2's story was a gimmick to continue the overarching plot about Bhaalspawn, but there's very little of Bhaalspawns in general there, as opposed to TOB where you actually fight them by the dozen. In the time frame of the original BG, the Time of Troubles and its aftermath was still pretty fresh and so it made sense to derive the story from that.

Now, nobody even remembers such old FR events, so they'd probably have to use current state of FR setting and call it a BG "because it sells" but probably setting it up in a different land. WotC has been issuing supplements about the city, so it's still pretty alive.

Besides, setting it on a time long gone needs a lot of consultation with FR experts (the makers of the setting like Ed Greenwood). Black Isle were seasoned FR connoisseurs, so they operated within a well-established setting.

As for me I'm pretty burned out from playing these games, so I don't want a return to BG1's setting. Besides, I suspect the level of fanfiction-tribute by the devs would be high, and I don't want that, I have Dragonspear in that case and I can play it right now if I wanted.
 

CRPG Fanatic 101

Literate
Joined
Jun 26, 2018
Messages
16
What a stupid thread. It would be a miracle if an hypothetical BG3 would even be able to approach BG2, and there's no such thing as miracles in the age we live in. Expect something with worse writing, worse combat, worse design etc.

It's not a realistic thread, so don't impose realistic restraints on it, it's imaginative fantasy.

But sometimes, dreams do become reality...
 

CRPG Fanatic 101

Literate
Joined
Jun 26, 2018
Messages
16

Sounds like you're in denial.

35 hours of Arcanum, Betrayal at Krondor, Ultima 4-5, and those gold box games will set you straight.


I certainly won't deny BG2 having GUI issues, but no ugly sights and sounds - it's perfect in those 2 areas.

BG2 gui has the most annoying thing ever - that swinging pendulum clock at the lower left corner of the screen. Whose bright idea was it to put that annoying 'feature' in the game ?
 

Theldaran

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 10, 2015
Messages
1,772
In all actuality, I believe that just blatantly imitating Black Isle's style is not too hard.

I've heard that Dragonspear is not that bad in terms of gameplay and design, but of course, it's covered in deep SJW fanfiction shit (which is to be expected by now). So maybe it's enjoyable even if you have to cringe inevitably. Some games are like that. Maybe I should grab Dragonspear for 5 bucks and do my testing.
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
I would change its fanbase and modders: munchkins and romance-lovers are the worst.
 

Outlander

Custom Tags Are For Fags.
Patron
Joined
Nov 18, 2011
Messages
4,481
Location
Valley of Mines
Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Done by Beamdog? Realistic expectations:

gothminsc.jpg


What we would actually get:

tumblr_inline_p03s8wICm71r1a9ei_540.jpg
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom