Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Preview Realms Beyond Combat Alpha Gameplay Video

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
So weird to see this after I fought basically the exact same battle with the exact same assets in Demons Age, but all I could do was auto-attack and cast like two spells...

Hah, can you post a screenshot of that?
 

Jack Dandy

Arcane
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
3,039
Location
Israel
Divinity: Original Sin 2
I might have said it a couple times now, but kudos for promoting these kinds of things in the news feed.
Good indie games getting a spotlight is very important!
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,886
Not sure what the penalty for a hex would be, but AP cost is usually 1.5x for that maneuver in a square/grid-based tbs.
There is no additional penalty in D&D for moving through squares occupied by friendlies.
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
Patron
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
17,274
Location
Terra da Garoa
So weird to see this after I fought basically the exact same battle with the exact same assets in Demons Age, but all I could do was auto-attack and cast like two spells...
Hah, can you post a screenshot of that?
Not gonna keep replaying that garbage until I find the orcs, but here's a group of goblins:
lolol.jpg
 

sser

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,866,662
Not sure what the penalty for a hex would be, but AP cost is usually 1.5x for that maneuver in a square/grid-based tbs.
There is no additional penalty in D&D for moving through squares occupied by friendlies.

Not for moving through friendlies, but because you're skipping terrain. It's faster to go diagonally.
 

Valky

Arcane
Manlet
Joined
Aug 22, 2016
Messages
2,418
Location
Trapped in a bioform
In all honesty though I'll echo the slow combat complaint, also how cumbersome and awkward it feels to have to walk 6 hexes around one hex despite the charracter size being visually small enough to easily walk the line between two hexes. That's the only failing where I'll give ToEE/D:OS's "lack of grid" the win, the movement and positioning was much superior in it as a result in those games.
 
Joined
Sep 18, 2013
Messages
1,258
Not sure what the penalty for a hex would be, but AP cost is usually 1.5x for that maneuver in a square/grid-based tbs.

1.5x is very disagreeable to me. Actual calculation is something very close to 1.4x. I think in Xenonauts diagonals also take 14, but I might be wrong.

In this case (hexagons), minimum AP should be the same as moving two tiles, plus whatever conditionals.
 

sser

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,866,662
My understanding is that if you run the numbers long enough you get almost exactly 1.4x. But you're not usually moving hundreds of squares a turn to justify the exactness there. 1.5x is what I see presumably because it allows for easy counting -- X-Com, HoMM, and I imagine most other games I play -- and presumably because from a design perspective if you have a very limited set of resources (AP in this case) and the constraints of the map are very tight yet with tactical obfuscations (like an X-Com map), then even with the middling extra mathematical 'cost', it's still worth it to move diagonally because it will be a large advantage regardless. What I've never really understood is why diagonal movement is so fast on 3D games like Doom or Half-Life.
 

roshan

Arcane
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
2,426
Looks like complete shit. So fucking slow. And it's got that stupid "modern turn based" thing where the camera keeps slowly panning around without you moving it that makes games like Shadowrun, Halfway and so many others excruciatingly painful to play.

I remember in Shadowrun, when I reloaded a weapon, the camera would pan and center on the character, then a slow reload animation would play, and then text would pop up saying weapon reloaded. Then you would have to manually pan back the camera to the guy you wanted to shoot, wasting 5 seconds on all that crap. In Fallout you just clicked reload and the reloading happened. No bullshit waste of time rubbish ANIMESHANS!!!, popup text, camera panning.

I'd take IE RTWP over all these waste of time turn based systems any day.
 

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
Patron
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
4,013
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
In Fallout you just clicked reload and the reloading happened. No bullshit waste of time rubbish ANIMESHANS!!!, popup text, camera panning.
I seem to remember my character squatting as if to take a shit while rubbing his hands. But it's been a while.
 
Joined
Sep 18, 2013
Messages
1,258
My understanding is that if you run the numbers long enough you get almost exactly 1.4x. But you're not usually moving hundreds of squares a turn to justify the exactness there. 1.5x is what I see presumably because it allows for easy counting -- X-Com, HoMM, and I imagine most other games I play -- and presumably because from a design perspective if you have a very limited set of resources (AP in this case) and the constraints of the map are very tight yet with tactical obfuscations (like an X-Com map), then even with the middling extra mathematical 'cost', it's still worth it to move diagonally because it will be a large advantage regardless. What I've never really understood is why diagonal movement is so fast on 3D games like Doom or Half-Life.

Because strafing and moving forward both had individually assigned movement vectors so when you press both, the game engine does the math. I think it was an oversight in early games and then became sort of a staple once it became a known "exploit", like rocket jumping.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
33,052
Location
KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Looks like complete shit. So fucking slow. And it's got that stupid "modern turn based" thing where the camera keeps slowly panning around without you moving it that makes games like Shadowrun, Halfway and so many others excruciatingly painful to play.

I remember in Shadowrun, when I reloaded a weapon, the camera would pan and center on the character, then a slow reload animation would play, and then text would pop up saying weapon reloaded. Then you would have to manually pan back the camera to the guy you wanted to shoot, wasting 5 seconds on all that crap. In Fallout you just clicked reload and the reloading happened. No bullshit waste of time rubbish ANIMESHANS!!!, popup text, camera panning.

I'd take IE RTWP over all these waste of time turn based systems any day.

Auto camera panning IS cancer. Hopefully it's optional.

The autopanning of the camera during enemy turns can be switched off entirely in the options menu.

As for the animations, we do have a speedup function and in the next video Peter will hopefully not forget to show it off. It sets animation speed to 5x the speed you see in the video.

We're also going to add a speed toggle bar in the interface, similar to the speed toggle in the Total War games where you have normal, x2, and x3 to seamlessly switch between with one mouse click.
Once that is implemented we're going to make another video where we show off the different animation speeds.

Also, due to the overall feedback we're going to increase the default speeds of most animations, and especially the projectile speeds which are very slow right now.

Keep in mind that this is the first alpha version of the combat system and details like these are still subject to change based on community feedback and our own playtesting experience.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I think what we're seeing here is something akin to what it would be like to play Baldur's Gate with turn-based combat. Animation speedups will help but I'm not sure if they can entirely fix the issue.

At least in this battle, it seems like the orcs were just way too HP spongey. They were paralyzed sitting ducks and each one still took a million years to take down. Does the party have bad equipment here or is it underleveled or what? Maybe it wouldn't feel as bad if the player in the video didn't spend each turn faffing around in his spellbook, I don't know.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
33,052
Location
KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Do keep in mind that this is nowhere near balanced yet either. It's essentially just a demonstration of our combat system: showing off the combat interface, a couple of spells, the AI's movements, etc.
Issues like HP bloat negatively affecting combat pacing will be dealt with once the actual systems are fully implemented and tested.

Here, we intentionally used a player party with powerful casters so we can show off the multitude of spells we have in the game, but the orcs only had one caster among them and he wasn't particularly great.
This isn't representative of what encounters are going to play like in the finished game. We'll plan out some properly designed encounters in more interesting environments (dungeons with chokepoints and possibly some elevation) later.

Some of the chars in the party had great equipment, some had shit equipment which they weren't even skilled at (the dwarf wore heavy armor without having proficiency, conveying a substantial malus to his to hit chance), etc.
What you saw in this vid was essentially a haphazardly cobbled together test party vs a cobbled together test orc squad for purposes of demonstrating how our combat system works.

Of course, once we show some actual, properly designed encounters, we'll be happy to hear more comments about combat pacing and flow and how it could be improved.
 

Rune_74

Novice
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Messages
48
I think this looks really good.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom