KickStarter BATTLETECH - turn-based mech combat from Harebrained Schemes

[Lone Wolf]

Yes, Cael, which is why they're variants, rather than omnimechs. Aren't they, basically, production variants, too? As in, produced in that configuration?

I actually don't know, it's been a while (read: a decade) since I last explored that lore stuff in any detail.

 

[Cael]

Yes, Cael, which is why they're variants, rather than omnimechs. Aren't they, basically, production variants, too? As in, produced in that configuration?

I actually don't know, it's been a while (read: a decade) since I last explored that lore stuff in any detail.

Doesn't matter. The rules and the setting has always stated that you can reconfigure 'mechs as you like. In the book "Illusions of Victory", for example, a Banshee was modified by Solaris techs, including moving the autocannon's position to a torso location. The TRO 'mech entries are littered with unique variants of 'mechs, many of which are modified by the pilots themselves.

Omnimechs merely made it easier and cheaper to do so, but for some bizarre reason, people seem to have taken it as religious belief that modifying non-omnimechs is forbidden. I won't even go into the whole notion of Frankenmechs because that would blow the minds of such religiously inclined and I can't be bothered cleaning up after them.

 

[PanteraNera]

Frankenmechs

Please tell us more

 

[Bladeract]

In Crescent Hawk's inception you could mod your mechs.

 

[34scell]

You should at least be able to fix body parts on to different variants of the same mech.

 

[Cael]

In Crescent Hawk's inception you could mod your mechs.

Oh, yes. What was it the techs said? "We rip out the SRM6 launcher and ammo. Then, weld on a ton of armour and then we plug up the holes with small lasers..." I lol'd hard at that.

 

[Bladeract]

Yeah, that was a fantastic game. Crappy graphics but somehow it really stuck with me as a true classic.

 

[Cael]

Frankenmechs

Please tell us more

OK, but you are cleaning up the resulting mess.

Imagine this scenario: A guy pilots a Wolverine. In the fight, the Wolverine's upper body mostly destroyed beyond salvage. By coincidence, after the fight, he finds an enemy Rifleman nearby with its lower torso and legs mostly blown away, leaving the upper torso.



The result.

 

[PanteraNera]

OK, but you are cleaning up the resulting mess.

Ready, waiting for them:

 

[Cael]

Honestly that always baffles me, why didn't HBS use this?
I'd say that would had been a pretty cool feature.
To be fair there are a million why/face-palm questions regarding HBS.
And it wouldn't have saved the game.

Not really. The way BTech was originally structured, you basically had no standardisation in the slightest. That means that everything is basically non-standard. One of the oft-quoted examples is the AC20. The Demolisher's AC20s were 185mm guns or something crazy like that. Other AC20s were described as having other bore sizes. It was only later that things became more standardised, with AC20s being about 120mm or so.

In a scenario like that, you can understand that something as big and complex as a 'mech wouldn't have standardised connections and wiring and all that, which makes making Frankenmechs rather impossible. On top of that, don't forget that 'mechs are moved by myomer bundles and these are sized to individual spaces (e.g., a 1m long bundle is going to not fit in a 0.5m space, nor will it work in a 1.5m space). However, certain Omnimechs have parts that are interchangeable because they are designed that way (Madcat and Vulture legs are interchangeable because they use the same legs and lower torso base, IIRC).

 

[PanteraNera]

Not really. The way BTech was originally structured, you basically had no standardisation in the slightest. That means that everything is basically non-standard. One of the oft-quoted examples is the AC20. The Demolisher's AC20s were 185mm guns or something crazy like that. Other AC20s were described as having other bore sizes. It was only later that things became more standardised, with AC20s being about 120mm or so.

Honestly, if I was HBS and needed to get my own stuff/ideas in (like +, ++, +++ weapons) I would have done it with this as an explanation.

 

[Cael]

Not really. The way BTech was originally structured, you basically had no standardisation in the slightest. That means that everything is basically non-standard. One of the oft-quoted examples is the AC20. The Demolisher's AC20s were 185mm guns or something crazy like that. Other AC20s were described as having other bore sizes. It was only later that things became more standardised, with AC20s being about 120mm or so.

Honestly, if I was HBS and needed to get my own stuff/ideas in (like +, ++, +++ weapons) I would have done it with this as an explanation.

HBS was too far up their own arse to even consider explanations. At no point did they bother with explanations. Kevin, in fact, went nuts when people didn't react like he wanted them to (remember the twit where he ranted about how people were skipping his shit writing?).

That arrogance permeates the entire game. Time and again, people in this thread complained about things that were obviously the result of HBS arrogance and contempt for their customers. Even their fixes had arrogance all over it (instead of addressing the real problems that people were complaining about, they "fixed" cosmetic stuff, plainly showing that they arrogantly don't believe that the complaints had any legs to stand on).

 

[Spark Mandriller]

Honestly, if I was HBS and needed to get my own stuff/ideas in (like +, ++, +++ weapons) I would have done it with this as an explanation.

But they did. That's why + weapons have different manufacturers. Donal PPCs are slightly more damaging than the baseline, Tiegart PPCs are more accurate, and so on. That was the justification.

 

[Cael]

Honestly, if I was HBS and needed to get my own stuff/ideas in (like +, ++, +++ weapons) I would have done it with this as an explanation.

But they did. That's why + weapons have different manufacturers. Donal PPCs are slightly more damaging than the baseline, Tiegart PPCs are more accurate, and so on. That was the justification.

...

Donal PPCs come as standard on Battlemasters and Warhammers. Tiegarts are standard on Thugs. Hope the fucks at HBS put that in the game.

Also, I am betting they used already existing names for the ++ shit, so I hope the corresponding 'mechs get the automatic upgrade.

 

[Spark Mandriller]

Hope the fucks at HBS put that in the game.

Shockingly enough, no they didn't. Though it wouldn't make that much of a difference since enemy mechs never use + equipment. Somehow they all use standard models during the fight but then after it's over some of their weapons magically transform into + versions so you can salvage them (well, assuming the RNG likes you enough to give you + versions). Makes zero sense, but there you go.

 

[Cael]

Hope the fucks at HBS put that in the game.

Shockingly enough, no they didn't. Though it wouldn't make that much of a difference since enemy mechs never use + equipment. Somehow they all use standard models during the fight but then after it's over some of their weapons magically transform into + versions so you can salvage them (well, assuming the RNG likes you enough to give you + versions). Makes zero sense, but there you go.

It makes perfect sense when it is happening in a shit tier game. Reminds me of the time I had a DM that would have us fight a bunch of guys and then roll for magic items AFTER the fight. We ended up with all sorts of +4 weapons (at level 7 or so, mind you) that we never had to face in the hands of the enemy. Cue one big backtrack and a hasty explanation that those magic weapons only worked within the area we are in and once we leave, they become mundane weapons. Yeah, the game didn't last long.

 

[Bohr]

 

[Werdna's Revenge]

Hope the fucks at HBS put that in the game.

Shockingly enough, no they didn't. Though it wouldn't make that much of a difference since enemy mechs never use + equipment. Somehow they all use standard models during the fight but then after it's over some of their weapons magically transform into + versions so you can salvage them (well, assuming the RNG likes you enough to give you + versions). Makes zero sense, but there you go.

The AI never uses + weapons to balance out all the asymmetric fights I think. Taking on two lances of assaults with just one lance is bad enough without giving them more annoying advantages.

 

[Quigs]

Mechs had packaged 'upgrade kits', most of which were produced by House Marik. These would allow you to quickly refit mechs from older weapons platforms to something more usable. However, it's written that you can't just replace things as you'd like without an extensive overhaul that'd cost more than it'd be worth to just find a different mech that did what you wanted. Weight ratios had to be maintained, engine performance tweaked, etc. You couldn't just swap the torso a Hunchback's AC20 was on in a few hours, if ever. The chasis wasn't designed to handle it.

I believe the Mechwarrior RPG went into more specifics of difficulty and time required for modifications, but they were always within finite parameters.

 

[Doma]

Just installed this mod.

Makes post-campaign playing a lot more fun!

 

[Bladeract]

The problem is you can only make it more difficult by adding yet more opponents or making them tougher. What the game needs is better AI, better designed missions, and getting rid of the stupid morale based abilities that let you do precision strikes and other nonsense that makes the game completely untactical.

Having it so that you are forced to take a mix of mechs due to dropship contraints of some kind would help a lot, too.

 

[Trithne]

I don't trust modder re-balancing for shit

These days modder re-balancing is on par with dev quality. Not because modders got good at balancing, mind.

Still no cure for the modder "add everything and the kitchen sink" syndrome though.

 

[Cael]

Highlights

• Big, RogueLike, Sandbox Experience

CLANG! CLANG! CLANG! CLANG!

What's that, Lassie? Is that the alarm bell going off? Oh, my, we better get out of here, Lassie. What? HBS fell down the well? Good idea. I'll get the shovel and you get the bag of cement and let's fill the fucker in.

 

[Cael]

Mechs had packaged 'upgrade kits', most of which were produced by House Marik. These would allow you to quickly refit mechs from older weapons platforms to something more usable. However, it's written that you can't just replace things as you'd like without an extensive overhaul that'd cost more than it'd be worth to just find a different mech that did what you wanted. Weight ratios had to be maintained, engine performance tweaked, etc. You couldn't just swap the torso a Hunchback's AC20 was on in a few hours, if ever. The chasis wasn't designed to handle it.

I believe the Mechwarrior RPG went into more specifics of difficulty and time required for modifications, but they were always within finite parameters.

Hunchback

Relevant quote:
"Dwindling stockpiles of spare parts and personal dislike for a weapon which could easily overheat the 'Mech led many owners to replace the Hunchback's trademark autocannon with another set-up, resulting in a variety of variants collectively known as the Swayback due to the altered nature of the machine's torso."

Not factory made variants. Explicitly stated that the original AC20 was replaced.

 

[Bohr]

Good news for Cael and other BT fans, Tyler may have gone but others are stepping up