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Do you metagame?

Atlet

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Nov 11, 2017
Messages
1,610
Powergame and min/max are cool, maybe is what cRPG's are all about. Unless we metagame. If we start to chase faqs and cheesy tactics/builds all over the internet, we break the game, and all the fun will be lost.

What do you think about that? Do you consider metagamming in some situations?
 
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Unwanted

Micormic

Unwanted
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
939
95% of the time no. I don't usually think about games I'm playing that much because most games are fairly easy when you use your brain.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
After the first 1-2 playthroughs, I metagame heavily. It's all about finding great builds and optimal/cool strategies and tactics. Gotta optimize dat playthrough. There used to be a time when gamers would gather at suspect places and forums to exchange findings and write their own art of war. Back then the games were hard, the girls were pretty, and potatoes were fried in olive oil. It's harder to do with modern games, usually there is no point in it.
 

Jokzore

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 18, 2017
Messages
623
Yes. Because I wanna win. Winning is fun.

The amount of fun I have is directly proportional to the intensity of the win.

This is most likely because I've never achieved anything and have to validate my existence through clicking on pixels.
 

oldmanpaco

Master of Siestas
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
13,609
Location
Winter
I usually look at a guide after I finish a game once to see what I missed. Don't really use them to optimize builds or learn new tactics i just hate missing content.
 

Atlet

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Nov 11, 2017
Messages
1,610
Yes. Because I wanna win. Winning is fun.

The amount of fun I have is directly proportional to the intensity of the win.

This is most likely because I've never achieved anything and have to validate my existence through clicking on pixels.

But you can become a matured, cultured and very sophisticaded person if you stop metagamming in your videogames.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,552
I powergame and metagame when i study character creation, than promptly go into LARP mode when i actually play. I find number crunching to be fun in concept not so much in execution.
 

frajaq

Erudite
Joined
Oct 5, 2017
Messages
2,402
Location
Brazil
Serious answer now: I only metagame after a first run of the RPG, and I liked it and want to play in the hardest difficulty
Anything else I just roll with it, more fun that way
 

Monkeyfinger

Cipher
Joined
Aug 5, 2004
Messages
778
I powergame and metagame when i study character creation, than promptly go into LARP mode when i actually play. I find number crunching to be fun in concept not so much in execution.

The complete opposite of this.

I love reading through whatever info the game puts on offer then making my best attempt at building an OP party with only my own instincts + whatever info the game gives, no help gotten from the internet.
 

Generic-Giant-Spider

Guest
I always do my first playthrough RAW and UNCUT.

Only if there's a PVP component do I actually bother to do any research because I was born with a small penis and need to flex where I can.
 
Self-Ejected

RNGsus

Self-Ejected
Joined
Apr 29, 2011
Messages
8,106
I was once a real boy like some of you. Sadly I have absorbed enough data across my web-wandering that I am cursed with metagame.
 

Covenant

Savant
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
345
The OP is too reductionist. Can you define what metagaming actually is? And where it stops and powergaming begins? And whether there are divisions or grades within these categories?

Personally, the idea of pulling up an FAQ as I'm starting a new RPG and taking advice such as 'Take X trait, put all your creation points in Fire Magic, go to the town, sell all your starting equipment and buy a fire staff, you've now broken the first half of the game' is loathsome to me. It robs me of the joy of experimenting with the game's systems and seeing what the challenges are, and how I can best overcome them with my limited early resources. That fun is gone, unless I intentionally choose a sub-optimal strategy or otherwise attempt to limit or handicap myself.

But on the other hand, say I were playing something like Wizardry or Etrian Odyssey, something in that vein, and there's a long minefield maze I have to pass through with no way of detecting mines other than walking into them, and the mines cripple or kill my party and inevitably force me to reload or return to town after stumbling into only a couple of them. A maze with no in-game way to map it other than trial and error, with the expectation that I spend the next hour or so tortuously eking out a map in my characters' blood just so I could pass it. No resources are being expended, I'm not discovering anything new (or if I am it's at a snail's pace), and no challenge is being offered - my time is simply being taxed. So would I not want to look up a map online to quickly get through this minefield? I'd have conflicted feelings about it, but it certainly seems more justifiable. Is that metagaming or something else? Yes, that scenario focuses on exploration rather than combat, but it similarly going outside the game to find a 'shortcut' to what the game is offering as a challenge, just as an overpowered combat build is.

And then of course there's the problem that you often can't tell if a puzzle or challenge is 'fair' until after you've passed through it. What if after failing to navigate a maze of 'random' traps the first couple of times I reach for the guidebook only to discover that I misinterpreted a clue I found on an earlier level, or simply didn't find a nearby switch to disable the traps? The same can occur in terms of combat as well, just substitute the trapped area for bosses that require an understanding of their mechanics or a particular trick to beat, and the player, rather than working that out himself, bypasses this with an overpowered build gleaned from some FAQ.

In practice, I think it's rather easy to avoid extreme cases of metagaming and powergaming should you be so inclined, but if you want to actually have an in-depth discussion about it then you can't do so without also discussing what the player expects in terms of games providing a 'fair' challenge and not wasting their time. And then you have to take into account whether it's a game that 'expects' save-scumming or reloading (and then get into whether that itself is a good or bad thing - I personally believe it's bad).

An interesting addendum to the question in the OP would be asking posters what they did with their characters' stats in the EotB and Gold Box games. Did they Modify their rolls until everyone was an 18/00/18/18/18/etc demigod? For my part, when I was a kid: Yes. When I've attempted those games as an adult: No.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
Personally, the idea of pulling up an FAQ as I'm starting a new RPG and taking advice such as 'Take X trait, put all your creation points in Fire Magic, go to the town, sell all your starting equipment and buy a fire staff, you've now broken the first half of the game' is loathsome to me. It robs me of the joy of experimenting with the game's systems and seeing what the challenges are, and how I can best overcome them with my limited early resources. That fun is gone, unless I intentionally choose a sub-optimal strategy or otherwise attempt to limit or handicap myself.

There are often a lot of guides/walkthroughs that respect the game's spirit and do not try to break it or exploit programming limitations. Those are the ones I study when I metagame. If a FO2's guide is based on getting the power armor ASAP, it's a shit guide (I don't mind mentioning in passing that it's possible). But I perfectly agree that such things are better left for after the 1st playthrough.
 

HeatEXTEND

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
3,981
Location
Nedderlent
If restarting after getting a grip on the game/system is meta-gaming, yes. And so should you. Remember kids, If you ain't restartin' the game's a fartin'.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,024
Location
Platypus Planet
If you replay a game then that falls under metagaming since you're approaching the game with knowledge that the game hasn't imparted on you yet.
 

Scroo

Female Quota Staff
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Staff Member
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Codex 2014 Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
Only in oldschool games. I don't enjoy playing an rpg from the 80s for 30 hours only to find out then I am kinda hardstuck because my party sucks.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,966
Location
Russia
Only after at least 2 playthroughs maybe.

cheesy tactics/builds
I don't even like the idea of builds in single player rpgs.

Build is generally something optimized around using a single, or few abilities to turn killing monsters into a safe routine, like in Diablo/Path of Exile. The key word is - based around few abilities. Sure, since 3d edition D&D also have builds for example, but with something like memorisation system, you probably should't deal with any encounter by rotating same 3 maximised fireballs; you shouldn't start the game and build your fighter around using 1 weapon with 100 passives either if you don't even know what unique weapons do, or what weapons you might want. The idea is to use all the tools to beat encounters, and change them if you can't beat an encounter.

This is why I usually just don't do "builds" in CRPGs, and instead pick what seems least useless, and try to pick a high variation of weapons, damage types and status effects, and protections & consumables, and wait patiently for game to throw encounters at me which actually require using at least 50% of them. My logic is, if you can beat anything without using something, that something might as well not exist in the game. At the very least once game should make you think about actually using that dispel magic or protection potion.

And of course I get disappointed.

Oh well.
 
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Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,659
If you replay a game then that falls under metagaming since you're approaching the game with knowledge that the game hasn't imparted on you yet.

Only if you abuse your knowledge. In Morrowind, I never went out of my way to search for powerful items.
 

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