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Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

jf8350143

Liturgist
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Messages
1,277
Based on my experience from WoW, nerf 5% of your DPS is a huge nerf, for the raid. In smaller dungeon(5 people) it means jack shit unless you are playing extremely competitive and is barely recognisable if you don't goes into the dungeon.

And Deadfire definitely goes into the smaller dungeon or outside of dungeon area since none of boss will take you more than 20 minutes to defeat and has more than a billion health.
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,432
Nobody likes being nerfed. In single player games you can easily avoid that by buffing enemies instead, with the same end result but lack of "feeling bad" part of players.

I like being nerfed.

And buffing enemies instead will not do the same thing. If you buff enemies only, that will cause general stat inflation: +1 will mean less and the items, stats, and abilities will feel less impactful overall -- and (((some people))) are already complaining that stats don't matter enough. Your general opfor buff would make that worse.

Conversely, if you nerf abilities and items only, that causes stat deflation which makes the system more minmaxy and will produce more OP outliers.

If you want to keep the overall feel of the system the same while making it more challenging, you have to do both. It's not rocket science FFS

You do both if you're worried about power creep, which is consistent with JES MOBA-style balancing. Dumpsterfire isn't expected to last a decade or more of constant updates though, that's why I think he could have done it more elegantly. Will the level cap even be raised? I doubt it.

Your note about being less minmaxy doesn't follow, since stats didn't get hit, on 1.0 if you stack all items on 1 char it will be much taller than in 1.1.
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
Staff Member
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
1,878,406
Location
Djibouti
They are balancing this like a online game and expect -2% (a 50% hit) to be a significant nerf. Data from online games shows such minor nerfs to significant, it's "reasonable to think" (they seem to think so) it will also be significant in Dumpsterfire.

It will if it's part of a general 50% nerf on items. Which it is

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Did you miss the part where they nerfed Empower from 10 to 6 levels, added enemies to most encounters, and changed their stats in PotD?

yes

Aloth's scepter not bouncing anymore

oh yeah this

just another proof to show that they have no idea (and had no idea) what they are (were) doing when it comes to general design with this game
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,087
Location
Bulgaria
Still my favourite bit of dialogue was encountering the
not real
guys cooking some food on the Isle of Wael
Upon your observation that there's no life at all inhabiting the island one of the guys says "Makes you wonder what kinda shit is in the pot"

That's probably my favourite random encounter. Really managed to instill creepy, that group did. And then I had to look at the hooded guy...
Yeah,it is the best island,until the end i was expecting something to make you go there and do something. But nothing happened,it really feel like a cut content to me....probably a part of some dlc,maybe the archmage one.
 

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,124
Another thing is, Josh needs to move quick because Feargus won't keep this on life support forever like the first game. We have 3 DLCs coming out in the next 6 months, after that some bug fixes and DLC balancing, final patch maybe about a year from now, and that's it.
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,432
Another thing is, Josh needs to move quick because Feargus won't keep this on life support forever like the first game. We have 3 DLCs coming out in the next 6 months, after that some bug fixes and DLC balancing, final patch maybe about a year from now, and that's it.
zvaYiP4.jpg
 

Ulfhednar

Savant
Joined
Apr 29, 2017
Messages
809
Location
Valhalla
Nobody likes being nerfed. In single player games you can easily avoid that by buffing enemies instead, with the same end result but lack of "feeling bad" part of players.

I like being nerfed.

And buffing enemies instead will not do the same thing. If you buff enemies only, that will cause general stat inflation: +1 will mean less and the items, stats, and abilities will feel less impactful overall -- and (((some people))) are already complaining that stats don't matter enough. Your general opfor buff with no item/ability nerf would make that worse.

Conversely, if you nerf abilities and items only, that causes stat deflation which makes the system more minmaxy and will produce more OP/UP outliers.

If you want to keep the overall feel of the system the same while making it more challenging, you have to do both. It's not rocket science FFS

Right, because the only way to increase difficulty of encounters is to start messing with stats...

  • SCS plays fair. I've made a fairly sustained effort to ensure that SCS opponents fight by the rules and don't use powers denied to the player (other than obvious things like dragons' breath weapons, liches' ability to see through invisibility, etc!) This is probably most notable for spellcasters - SCS mages don't randomly get uninterruptible spells, improved casting time, free Alacrity, or the like. (In fact, I've removed these powers from creatures in the vanilla game occasionally, though I haven't done so systematically.)
  • SCS is almost pure AI. SCS mucks around rather little with the core powers of creatures, and hardly at all with their abilities, resistances, saving throws and the like, beyond correcting a few errors in the original game. Its main focus is on getting creatures to do as much as they possibly can with their existing abilities. In particular, its targeting is very careful - hopefully you'll almost never see a mage do something stupid like cast repeated spells at someone immune to that spell.
  • SCS is quite low-key in its changes Where SCS does modify something other than AI, it usually does so in a relatively undramatic manner - adding a few more creatures, giving a creature a couple of other magic powers in keeping with powers it's already used, and so forth. It doesn't give new ultra-powerful spells to creatures who didn't have any magic before, or give creatures massive damage resistances, for instance. (Again, there's not necessarily anything wrong with doing this, it's just not what SCS is about).
  • SCS is very customisable. Feel free to install whichever combination of components you like - there is a separate one for each major AI / tactical change.
  • SCS is systematic. I've tried to be very thorough in making sure that there aren't "gaps" in its AI modifications - so that all hostile wizards, for instance, and not just some, are upgraded. As of version 25 I believe that virtually every encounter in the game will be affected by a full install of SCS.
  • SCS tries to be as compatible as possible. I've done the best I can to ensure that SCS will install on top of other mods (especially non-tactical ones) without causing problems for either. In particular, SCS dynamically alters its scripts to take (some) account of new magic items introduced by other mods.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
If only any CRPG ever had features that SCS the mod had, yes.

Anyway, nerfs, buffs, w/e, real question is how wideranging and effective veteran/potd changes will be. The beta definitely has made the actual encounters tougher, it feels like, but it's not like I documented the exact mob composition & defences to compare. Has anyone done that? There seem definitely to be significant additions - e.g. I tried to solo it until I got my desired party members but they added a big drake in the Aloth battle I think and I just could not do it, and it was pretty hard even with Xoti.

Obviously they can't remove Empower now - it should never have b een in there in its current form, but now there will be so much butthurt and a lot of feats etc are dependent on it. You wonder if it's possible to fix it given how it works. Do you just tone down the numbers until it's kind of lukewarm? Do you reduce the number of empowers until people just rest after every battle and empower becomes the new rest trigger? I don't know. At least empower is very easy not to use, so it becomes an easy way for the player to avoid the shit.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,087
Location
Bulgaria
It is fascinating that Lacrymas and Prime Junta are still thinking that people don't like the changes because they are nurfs and fixing the game. People don't like it because it is a lazy half-assed method of nurfing. Just splash 50% on every unique generic item without thinking and call it day. Those nurfs won't really affect the difficulty problem in any way.

Also AwesomeButton why don't you just mod some good crpg and stop defending this game?
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,949
Pathfinder: Wrath
It is fascinating that Lacrymas and Prime Junta are still thinking that people don't like the changes because they are nurfs and fixing the game. People don't like it because it is a lazy half-assed method of nurfing. Just splash 50% on every unique generic item without thinking and call it day. Those nurfs won't really affect the difficulty problem in any way.

No, people are literally saying they are taking their toys away and they are removing the fun out of the builds by nerfing them, but are also complaining it's too easy. Whether the nerfs are "smart" or not will be determined later. Yes, it would've been better to have an SCS-like overhaul of the AI and removal of Empower along with the nerfs, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,087
Location
Bulgaria

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
Patron
Joined
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Messages
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At large
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Did you miss the part where they nerfed Empower from 10 to 6 levels
Heh, this reminds me of these marketing tests where they give half the test group real beer, and the other half alcohol free beer.
They nerfed it to 5, I believe, and this was in the final build of the BB.
In the 1.0 Deadfire however...
cVfiaNo.png
(global.gamedatabundle)

I like being nerfed.
Though I agree with the post, this sounded rather
cuck.png

Also AwesomeButton why don't you just mod some good crpg and stop defending this game?
I'm not "defending" anything. Whatever it is you're smoking, it's impairing your reading comprehension. Saying Deadfire is better than the first game isn't defending Deadfire. I'll also reiterate, you might actually read it this time -- the fact that I'm working on a modding tool, since before the game is released, says enough about how much I like its rules.

I have huge JSON files which allow me to rewrite the rules, on a silver platter, how could anyone resist writing a web-based editor for that?

Why don't you pirate a better RPG and play that instead? I think you'll like Assassin's Creed Origins for example :D
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,087
Location
Bulgaria
Also AwesomeButton why don't you just mod some good crpg and stop defending this game?
I'm not "defending" anything. Whatever it is you're smoking, it's impairing your reading comprehension. Saying Deadfire is better than the first game isn't defending Deadfire. I'll also reiterate, you might actually read it this time -- the fact that I'm working on a modding tool, since before the game is released, says enough about how much I like its rules.

I have huge JSON files which allow me to rewrite the rules, on a silver platter, how could anyone resist writing a web-based editor for that?

Why don't you pirate a better RPG and play that instead? I think you'll like Assassin's Creed Origins for example :D
:lol: I get you mate. But some times(rarely) you sound very bias,still most of the times you are very level headed when talking about the game. That is why i do like your posts,even if not agreeing with you all the time.

Have fun modding,it is shame that is deadfire. If it brings you fun times,then go for it.

Lastly,i do pirate better games than Deadfire. Just finished Demonicon,great incest simulator. The game is real mess,the last two chapters are meh and it have garbage checkpoint saves....still i had more fun than with deadfire. It is a real shame that i didn't get to bone the zombie and the vampire sister,only the insane demon worshipping power hungry sister.
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
Patron
Joined
Nov 23, 2014
Messages
16,156
Location
At large
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
No face animations, bouncing boobs, grimdark setting, disliked by mainstream games-are-art connoisseurs. Looks like a Witcher 2 killer.
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
So I googletubed Demonicon and surprisingly it isn't a visual novel. Is this Third Eye shit the same thing from Drakensang? Also, is Drakensang any good? Also: also.
 

oldmanpaco

Master of Siestas
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
13,609
Location
Winter
I remember when they nerfed Mind Blades halfway though my initial PoE play-through. That was awesome. But a lesson was learned and that lesson was you don't play an Obsidian game until 6 months after release.

So why are you people playing the game before its done? To get angry over every balance patch coming out? There are probably 10 more of them coming down the pipeline so good luck with that.
 

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