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KickStarter Queen's Wish: The Conqueror - the Jeff Vogel Kickstarter

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
13,379
"Our fans have been asking us to go back to the top-down graphics of the Exile series, so now we're going to use RPG Maker style graphics which look worse than both the Exile series and the later isometric games." :retarded:

Pretty much the whole thing in a nutshell. The people defending Vogel here are tilting at straw windmills. The argument is not that the game needs a better graphic engine or that the perspective he's chosen can't work, or that we demand AAA-quality artwork, it's that the fucking assets he insists on using are actually worse than plenty of stuff that is available for FREE, and aesthetically inferior to stuff he's used in the past, not to mention the "market standard" for indie games that cost a few thousand bucks to make. If anything, it's actually insulting that he's asking for more money while delivering inferior results.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,232
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/619141553/queens-wish-the-conqueror/posts/2203014

Queen's Wish: The Conqueror reaches first stretch goal!

Thanks to your incredible generosity and faith in us, we have reached our first stretch goal. We're making an iPhone game! This will be a real challenge, but, from the earliest days, I've designed Queen's Wish knowing something like this might happen.

I am really enchanted about the idea of one of our games playing on a tiny screen in your palm. It still feels kind of magical to me.

I have written a blog post with a lot more info about Queen's Wish. I say a lot about my philosophy behind the game and where I want it to go. Hope you find it interesting.

More updates to come!
 

Grauken

Gourd vibes only
Patron
Joined
Mar 22, 2013
Messages
12,786
This is like the opposite of amibition. At least when the early CRPG designers declined it was because they wanted to create massive, breathing worlds or recreate the PNP experience on the PC, Vogel instead wants to make an iphone game.

:deathclaw:
 

Trash Player

Scholar
Joined
Jun 13, 2015
Messages
438
I have hope this will be good, but honestly, based on that last blog post, it sounds like it will be an Avadon Redux, only you are serving the Queen, rather than Redbeard, and there's a fort building mechanic tacked on. In fact, given everything he's said thus far, it seems like the queen, as a character, will be more or less indistinguishable from Redbeard, if not in portrayal, at least in the sorts of quests, moral dilemmas, and choices she will set up.

Hopefully he comes up with something to make each faction's issues immediately discernible and, more importantly, something to make you care about what happens to them. Avadon had shit tons of factions, but I can't recall a single one off-hand, couldn't tell most of them apart even when playing the games, and never gave two fucks about any of them. This is one area where the Avadon series definitely suffered from Vogel's insistence on reusing assets. If all of the characters and realms in your games are using the same exact sprites you need to make extra effort to distinguish them. Regardless, I don't think the conflicts in the Avadon games were clear enough to generate much interest from the player. Vogel never gave you much reason to support one over another, so at its worst it was a bit like playing a game where 10 different fantasy countries go to war over differing readings of zoning permits. Unless the central conflict is tied to something that is attention grabbing in the real world, why would anyone care?

The brilliant thing about the Geneforge series was that the main conflict was incredibly well defined, drew the player in emotionally, and despite being fairly simple, lent itself to a more complex exploration of the issues via the games' factions. At this point, I'm beginning to feel like Geneforge was lightning in a bottle for Vogel. He created them, but I've never seen him say anything that would indicate he even understands what makes them so good from a design and world building standpoint.
Avadon's factions suffer from the lack of faces like MCA mentioned: a character that is ideal made in flesh who made an immediate impression. Sooner or later, everyone just become a living pile of xp and loot anyway, it is better if the narrative punch early and dirty when it counts.
 

Kyl Von Kull

The Night Tripper
Patron
Joined
Jun 15, 2017
Messages
3,152
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Jamrock District
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
RPG Codex: fuck all these lying liar developers who come on Kickstarter, make tons of promises they know they can’t keep and then spectacularly fail to deliver. Why can’t these fags just be honest with us?

::Jeff Vogel launches the most honest Kickstarter ever::

RPG Codex: fuck Jeff Vogel and his lazy, tired ass. He has no ambition and everything he’s pitching looks terrible. How can he expect us to back his game when it looks like shit and he pretty much admits it will be totally derivative? Why doesn’t Vogel respect us enough to lie about what he can deliver, like every other self respecting developer?


tl;dr... this is the most honest Kickstarter I’ve ever seen and Jeff deserves some credit for truth in advertising.
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
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Developer
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16,947
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Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Even his last downgraded game looks way better. I mean, what the fuck, dumbing down the gameplay wasn't enough for him, did he need to do that with the game's art as well?

I just can't understand why. The look was perhaps one of the only redeeming qualities in Avadon. What's left now?


ss_377ba1282fe8438e6f4a857325750dfc5f13a4e7.1920x1080.jpg
This actually looks good by indie RPG standards. Really can't understand why can't he produce at least this quality. Also, I'm not buying the "our fans wanted us to go back to the perspective of the old games" excuse. I can't imagine anyone would want the current artstyle of his game instead of the above for example.

RPG Codex: fuck all these lying liar developers who come on Kickstarter, make tons of promises they know they can’t keep and then spectacularly fail to deliver. Why can’t these fags just be honest with us?

::Jeff Vogel launches the most honest Kickstarter ever::

RPG Codex: fuck Jeff Vogel and his lazy, tired ass. He has no ambition and everything he’s pitching looks terrible. How can he expect us to back his game when it looks like shit and he pretty much admits it will be totally derivative? Why doesn’t Vogel respect us enough to lie about what he can deliver, like every other self respecting developer?


tl;dr... this is the most honest Kickstarter I’ve ever seen and Jeff deserves some credit for truth in advertising.
Nobody is bashing him for being honest as I see it. The problem is that he is not putting in any effort into improving the game, and the art is getting even worse. Meanwhile he will get around a 100K with this kickstarter, I can't believe he can't get better art than what he has shown so far with that money.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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Black Goat Woods !@#*%&^
Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I'm not buying the "our fans wanted us to go back to the perspective of the old games" excuse. I can't imagine anyone would want the current artstyle of his game instead of the above for example.
Mobile users.
decline.png
Isometric control would be fiddly on a 4" screen.
 

buffalo bill

Arcane
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
1,004
I'm not a Vogel fan at all, but I'm just weighing in that I actually like the visual style in the Kickstarter video. I would def be happy to play a game in that style over any 3D game of any kind, for instance. I even prefer it to some other 2D visuals. It sort of has a TOME vibe to it, but better looking than TOME to me.

Too many gfx whores on the codex.
 

jungl

Augur
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
1,420
There nothing wrong with that style of graphics. You see it it in snes and early ps1 games plenty like https://youtu.be/qzbGDnQOKhQ

Thing is final product is probably going to look less pretty and interactive then these 20 year old games. It makes you ask the "what is the point"? lol. You could argue its something new at least then the same sprites he has been using in his games the past 10 or so years.
 

Dwarvophile

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
1,429
The way his eyebrows move, like he's talking to a 4 years old.

To me the problem has never been with the graphics but I can't stand to hear the same town ambient sounds anytime I enter a different city or village in Geneforge, Avernum or Avadon. And the same two birds peep when I get out of town, the same kitchen sink splash sound when my char jumps in a boat. Please Mr Living legend, the slightest effort on the sound side would greatly improve immersion.
 
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Doktor Best

Arcane
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
2,849
The way his eyebrows move, like he's talking to a 4 years old.

To me the problem has never been with the graphics but I can't stand to hear the same town ambient sounds anytime I enter a different city or village in Geneforge, Avernum or Avadon. And the same two birds peep when I get out of town, the same kitchen sink splash sound when my char jumps in a boat. Please Mr Living legend, the slightest effort on the sound side would greatly improve immersion.

Yeah this is true i have to say. I dont need a soundtrack, i can choose my own, but more effort put into combat and ambiance sounds would help alot.
 

Rahdulan

Omnibus
Patron
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
Messages
5,105
Is this the most barebone KS pitch ever or what? Jeff knows he has the target audience by the balls no matter what.
 

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