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KickStarter Queen's Wish: The Conqueror - the Jeff Vogel Kickstarter

Pope Amole II

Nerd Commando Game Studios
Developer
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with kingdom building mechanics.....and people want it to fail......i don't get it.

Yeah, because the codex absolutely enjoyed these kingdom building mechanics in Fallout 4 - ah, the joy of expanding your domains one village further so you can plant some more Tato. Tato, sweet tato... That's how real RPG tastes like!
 

fantadomat

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with kingdom building mechanics.....and people want it to fail......i don't get it.

Yeah, because the codex absolutely enjoyed these kingdom building mechanics in Fallout 4 - ah, the joy of expanding your domains one village further so you can plant some more Tato. Tato, sweet tato... That's how real RPG tastes like!
latest

I do!
 

Dayyālu

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I I see a lot of pointless vitriol in this thread,there is an upcoming crpg game with kingdom building mechanics.....and people want it to fail......i don't get it.

Comrade, Vogel is the poor RPG version of CoD. He lucked out because he developed games in the Great Drought age and kept throwing out stuff. He's throwing out the same stuff for twenty plus years.

I'll explain more clearly:

+ Vogel has shown that he can develop and write good games. Geneforges and Nethergate are arguably good games, with some wrinkles. It has been explained to death why they are good.
+ Vogel utterly refuses to improve, instead steadily becoming worse and worse in development, writing and design. Once you could say "it's because budget or lack of art skills or whatever" but it's fairly clear that it's because he does not care. He does not want to. As long as it's "good enough to sell" it's good. I know that this is stupid entertainment an' shit, but the utter lack of love for his craft becomes a bit puzzling after a while. Why he's developing games if he's obviously burned out? Becaus he can't do anything else, of course.
+ His personal blog is an interesting read if you like to see how he was proven wrong several times in a row. Again, he lucked out, going on Steam before the Indie explosion.
+ I'd be blunt: every Vogel game after 2008 is a mediocre game not worthy of the money, and there are dozens of less known games, older or newer, far more interesting. It's beyond belief that people keep buying the RPG equivalent of Steven Seagal movies.

You are of course free to finance a man that does not love his craft and does not love his public, but if you have to waste 20 bucks there are better options. And I keep being puzzled at how lazy he has become: my disappointment is born from seeing a dev that has given us good stuff that keeps throwing out mediocre crap because he's "so old, so tired, so old, so tired". Again, we can only vote with our wallets, and Vogel doesn't deserve money for his minimum-effort efforts.

EDIT:

GvZAGZ2.jpg


Ten years in the making and ten minutes for a Kickstarter page, comrade, eh? Well, at least someone is reading.
 

mondblut

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Ingrija

I want to believe, but I bet he said something along these lines about Ava "I want to be a bioware" don too. :negative:

Ten years in the making and ten minutes for a Kickstarter page, comrade, eh? Well, at least someone is reading.

Well, he doesn't need to waste thousands of dollars on an epic campaign saying to strangers "hello, I am a famous long-forgotten developer, I created Fallout - no, not the one you have played, that old one you might have seen mentioned once or twice - now pls help me put my career back on track". He addresses the already converted to offload the cost of a graphic facelift they have been asking for for the past 20 years on their shoulders, being risk-averse as he is. There is no crowdfunding there, only a preorder.
 

almondblight

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The return to multi-tile enemies is nice. And this seems promising:

All battles will be individually designed with an eye to surprise and variety.

I also don't get the complaints about stretch goals. To me, having few and fairly boring stretch goals is a very good sign. Have none of you actually been following KS projects? Stuff like "At $40k we'll include a second continent! At $50k, multiplayer! For every thousand above $50k, we'll add a level to our megadungeon!" usually just leads to weak half developed content that developers pushed out because they promised they would.
 

InD_ImaginE

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Pathfinder: Wrath
Well at least I know I won't be disappointed in his game.

Playing vogel is just like passing from moment to moment. Nothing really terrible and all of them are just bland.

I just hope he implement more skills like in his older games and at least try to create new ones. Having the same ones for nearly 6 games in a row is pushing it.

Oh for those complaining about android port: Android is a bitch platform to support especially if you are doing paid apps. Too much variation of device with similar specification but enough differences to fuck apps compatibility. Compared to ios device which is a more controlled environment and thus much easier to support.
 

fantadomat

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I I see a lot of pointless vitriol in this thread,there is an upcoming crpg game with kingdom building mechanics.....and people want it to fail......i don't get it.

Comrade, Vogel is the poor RPG version of CoD. He lucked out because he developed games in the Great Drought age and kept throwing out stuff. He's throwing out the same stuff for twenty plus years.

I'll explain more clearly:

+ Vogel has shown that he can develop and write good games. Geneforges and Nethergate are arguably good games, with some wrinkles. It has been explained to death why they are good.
+ Vogel utterly refuses to improve, instead steadily becoming worse and worse in development, writing and design. Once you could say "it's because budget or lack of art skills or whatever" but it's fairly clear that it's because he does not care. He does not want to. As long as it's "good enough to sell" it's good. I know that this is stupid entertainment an' shit, but the utter lack of love for his craft becomes a bit puzzling after a while. Why he's developing games if he's obviously burned out? Becaus he can't do anything else, of course.
+ His personal blog is an interesting read if you like to see how he was proven wrong several times in a row. Again, he lucked out, going on Steam before the Indie explosion.
+ I'd be blunt: every Vogel game after 2008 is a mediocre game not worthy of the money, and there are dozens of less known games, older or newer, far more interesting. It's beyond belief that people keep buying the RPG equivalent of Steven Seagal movies.

You are of course free to finance a man that does not love his craft and does not love his public, but if you have to waste 20 bucks there are better options. And I keep being puzzled at how lazy he has become: my disappointment is born from seeing a dev that has given us good stuff that keeps throwing out mediocre crap because he's "so old, so tired, so old, so tired". Again, we can only vote with our wallets, and Vogel doesn't deserve money for his minimum-effort efforts.

EDIT:

GvZAGZ2.jpg


Ten years in the making and ten minutes for a Kickstarter page, comrade, eh? Well, at least someone is reading.
As i said,i don't care about Vogel's opinions and believes,i care for his games. He makes games i like,games that are not popamole shit like deeadfire and dos2. He had made three series,of which two of them are great and avadon is mediocre. He has made good 6 avernum games and 5 geneforge good games. Now he is making a new series,i have zero reason to not be exited about the game. I will buy it once it get released in a few years. I don't get why are whining about it here? When i see a game that i don't care i just don't open the thread. It is pretty clear that you simply hate the guy and want to see his ship sink.

EDIT:Oh i forgot to ask you about all those new better games. Which games? I haven't enjoy a crpg more than his latest rerelease in years. Are you from another universe?
 

Elwro

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Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
And, partially, to uphold their "cool kid" reputation - why play the strictly superior modern roguelikes and -lites when you can play the same game ten times over? Because, really, Avadon 1-3 and NuVernum 1-3 is nothing but Avernum 5-6 (which are already the same game) repackaged six times. Zero effort applied.
Just a few things:
  • I don't think modern rogulik(/t)es are strictly superior to old roguelikes: the field has evolved, and NetHack, older versions of ADOM, or, say Dungeon Crawl continue to be superior to most things people currently want money for;
  • the point is moot anyway since Avernums etc are not roguelikes, so why would you compare these? Maybe I missed sth here;
  • I played enough of Avadon 2 to see there was clear effort invested by Vogel to come up with new things to add to the Avadon world; the whole thing was forgettable, but saying there was no effort is saying too much.
I kind of admire the guy for not becoming insane while continually working in the 'one game a year, and if one tanks, the next one has to be a hit or I go out of business' paradigm.
 
Last edited:
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Grab the Codex by the pussy
I don't actually like crafting in RPGs either, they are implemented in a shitty way 99% of the time.
If you don't like the mechanics, just say it. Don't use this fallacy of "this stuff belongs to another genre" because you can say this about any cRPG mechanics. It is disingenuous.
 

ghostdog

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I think Jeff approached kickstarter the same way some granpa approaches a new piece of tech. Extremely cautious, fearful some evil pirate hacker from Siberia will somehow steal all his money AND his ideas, he invested the minimum budget to make a pre-alpha and the minimum effort to present and explain his idea, asking for the minimum amount of money he could ask.
 

mondblut

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I don't actually like crafting in RPGs either, they are implemented in a shitty way 99% of the time.
If you don't like the mechanics, just say it. Don't use this fallacy of "this stuff belongs to another genre" because you can say this about any cRPG mechanics. It is disingenuous.

Indeed. Unless we speak about some action-based element, ofc.

I remember the days when "you can have a house" or "you can sail a ship and have ship to ship battles" or "you can trade goods in bulk to raise money" were innovative and endearing features for an RPG.

But I shouldn't be surprised when anything which does not involve clicking on hyperlinks is seen as haram by CYOA colonialists.
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Vogel's new game appears to use the same unusual viewing angle as my game. Is that vindication or damnation?

Anyway, I'm backing this, Spiderweb produced some of the best games ever created (Geneforge and Nethergate). Not sure which level to pick, though... very tempted to get a scroll absolving me of any prior acts of software piracy, and I want beta access, but damn that price is steep.
 
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Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath
Vogel's games are among the best cRPGs of the last decade. It is not much of a compliment to his games though. Rather, it is an evidence of the dreadful decline of our days. Vogel simply has been declining slower than others.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/619141553/queens-wish-the-conqueror/posts/2201855

Queen's Wish: The Conqueror has funded!

Queen's Wish: The Conqueror funded on its very first day. It is well on the way to its stretch goals. We are very surprised, humbled, and grateful. We were optimistic about our Kickstarter, but the generosity of our fans has stunned us. Thank you!

We are aiming for Queen's Wish to be out May, 2019. Anyone who has watched us over the years knows we are very good at hitting ship dates. If something slows us down, we will let you know in a prompt and clear update. Your trust in us deserves no less.

Some have asked us about new Stretch Goals. To be honest, we are skeptical about this. I have a very clear picture of a game in my head. I genuinely think it will be a cool game, and I want to make it. I don't want to start changing things around now just for a bigger bucket of money, especially now that you have been so generous.

However, if you have a good idea for another goal or thing to add, please post it in the Kickstarter comments. I will try to respond with what I think.

Thank you again, so much. Now I'm going to get back to work on Queen's Wish. It's a long road, making a new series, but it helps a lot to know that people believe in us.

- Jeff Vogel

Some info about the game here: http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2018/05/we-did-our-first-kickstarter-and-it.html

We Did Our First Kickstarter! And It Worked!


Another journey begins. A long, long journey.

For the fifth time in 25 years of doing business, we at Spiderweb Software are making a whole new game world (and new engine to go with it). Along with the announcement of our new series, Queen's Wish, we are launching our very first Kickstarter to support it.

We've put a lot of information about the new story and a video on our Kickstarter page.

We're getting older, enough so that the end of our careers is in sight. We only have so many new stories in us now. That is why we've put a lot of work into planning Queen's Wish. I've been designing it in my head for years. It's a very personal project in a lot of ways, and I've thought a lot about what I want to say.

This long blog post is for our fans, who might care about what we're thinking.


All-new (old) graphics style. All-new art. Note that all of these screenshots are very early and will heavily change.

The Basic Game Details

The Queen's Wish series, starting with Queen's Wish: The Conquerer, will hopefully be a trilogy for Windows, Mac, iPad, and, for the first time, the iPhone.

Our earliest games, the Exile series, had a simpler top-down graphics style. Many fans have, over the years, asked us to go back to this. We're finally doing it. I like this style a lot. It's very graphically clean, and makes it clear what creatures are in what spaces, which is necessary for a game like this on small screens like the iPhone.

We're trying to give the series a nice unified look and interesting graphical effects. where you can always be sure what space you are selecting and where all the creatures are. Our games will never look that fancy. We can't afford it. But we do try to improve things with each new game.

However, the indie game business is super-difficult and competitive right now. Outside of a few hits, most indie games don't make much money. At the same time, replacing all of the art in a game is very expensive. How can a small company like us make our own unique sort of game without going bankrupt?

Fortunately, the internet has provided a way ...


These brigands dared to steal a fort from Haven. Set them on fire.

To Kickstarter!

In a lot of ways, Spiderweb Software is the sort of company Kickstarter was made for. We're a tiny company. We make unusual products for a loyal niche audience, and we sometimes need help.

We're moving to Kickstarter very late. The big crowdfunding boom was years ago, and customers are rightly nervous about backing video games. A lot of careless game developers took peoples' money and gave nothing in return.

Happily, we have a very long record of shipping good games on time. We know what it takes to write a game, and we aren't going to rip anyone off.

But why support a Kickstarter to make a new indie game. Aren't there too many indie games? Isn't the turn-based RPG market totally glutted?

It's on us to prove that supporting us will create something new and worthwhile.


Collect resources, upgrade your forts, and get stronger characters. The sort of upgrades you buy improve you in different ways.

Yet Another Game About Empires

Most computer RPGs are about killing some big bad guy. There's some evil demon/wizard/monster/robot and it's totally evil and you get strong and kill it. The End. There's a lot of good games that follow this pattern, but it's not our thing.

I've always been obsessed with story, politics, power, and choices, and all my games reflect that. Every one of our games is about a huge power dominating others, and you have to find a way to survive under it. Support it. Fight it. Remake it. Destroy it.

I am obsessed with the history of Empires (successful and failed), and this comes through in the stories I write. This is appropriate. I am, after all, the citizen of an empire, and so are most of the people who play my games. I'm not ashamed of this. Sometimes Empires do good. (But often not.)

I love my country. But this doesn't keep me from thinking about my homeland and the power it holds, and what that means. These thoughts work their way through my brain, bubble and transform, and come out as game designs.

Video games are art, and art should reflect the world. The world very rarely gives us one end boss to kill to solve all our problems. The real world is much more complicated.

More Stuff About the Game

So this is another game about an Empire. But with a big difference.

You are not some peasant or bottom-rank soldier changing things from the bottom. In Queen's Wish, you are a prince or princess. You have power. You make the decisions, and you have to clean up the consequences.

You will be dealing with other nations, poor but proud, weaker than Haven but just as brave and determined. Each has its own history, beliefs, grudges and resentments. I want them to feel real, both sympathetic and infuriating, and then force you to deal with them.

People who have played my games for a long time know that I hate the idea of a Bad Guy. Whenever I introduce a faction, I let it plead its case as convincingly as possible, and I try to win some players over to their cause. If I introduce a faction and no player ever joins them, I have failed.

A Lot of Stuff About Forts

In Queen's Wish, your power comes from forts and trading posts. You will be trying to rebuild old keeps, once held by Haven. You can get permission to do so through force or diplomacy. These will increase your wealth and power and your standing with the Queen.

I love games that let you make fortresses and fill them with stuff. However, those forts seem to only rarely make a difference in the game. In Queen's Wish, you will have power to build and make decisions, and those decisions will give you noticeable power and bonuses.

Note that, if you aren't into this sort of thing, you can do the fort stuff very quickly. Just think of it as another way to train your character.

You can also make furniture and cosmetic improvements. My younger daughter told me that she wants this, so I put it in.


You can just build your shops quickly and get on with the fighting, or you can decorate your forts and make them all nice.

How the Combat Will Work

It will still be turn-based combat with hand-edited fights, like all our other games. We're working hard to make sure the fights are fresh and don't repeat themselves.

The game system will be skill-based. There won't be character classes. You can pick your skills from four different trees, hopefully allowing for a wide variety of different builds and strategies.

Your characters are stranded deep in a hostile land, and I want the feel of combat to support this. When you leave the base and get into fights, they will wear you down. The missions won't drag you down with lots of trash fights, but each battle will exhaust you. You will have to conserve your power and choose when to use your best abilities and items to push all the way to victory.

Where Do We Go From Here?

Aaaand ... we funded.

I wrote this blog post before the Kickstarter started, planning to post it on the second day of the campaign. I genuinely didn't expect that it would have funded by now. I am humbled by your generosity and faith in us.

Barring my getting run over by a bus, we hope for Queen's Wish to be done by May, 2019. Based on the size of game we have planned and what we have done so far, this seems very doable. It's a crowded market, but I will do my best to make something surprising and unique, and I think I will succeed.

If you have more questions, feel free to post them on our Kickstarter page. We are really excited about this new story, and we are grateful for any support you can provide!
 

mondblut

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Does he have stretch goals like "5th and 6th party slots" or "actual AOE spells are introduced in place of fire and forget magic missiles"?

He should.
 

fantadomat

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:negative:
The codex didn't manage to snatch it in time. Should have started a fundraiser and torment vogel with a Codexian dungeon/quest. Curios if at least have a member that managed to get it?


Screenshot_2018_6_1_Queen_s_Wish_The_Conqueror.png
 

Correct_Carlo

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Pronouns: He/Him/His
I have hope this will be good, but honestly, based on that last blog post, it sounds like it will be an Avadon Redux, only you are serving the Queen, rather than Redbeard, and there's a fort building mechanic tacked on. In fact, given everything he's said thus far, it seems like the queen, as a character, will be more or less indistinguishable from Redbeard, if not in portrayal, at least in the sorts of quests, moral dilemmas, and choices she will set up.

Hopefully he comes up with something to make each faction's issues immediately discernible and, more importantly, something to make you care about what happens to them. Avadon had shit tons of factions, but I can't recall a single one off-hand, couldn't tell most of them apart even when playing the games, and never gave two fucks about any of them. This is one area where the Avadon series definitely suffered from Vogel's insistence on reusing assets. If all of the characters and realms in your games are using the same exact sprites you need to make extra effort to distinguish them. Regardless, I don't think the conflicts in the Avadon games were clear enough to generate much interest from the player. Vogel never gave you much reason to support one over another, so at its worst it was a bit like playing a game where 10 different fantasy countries go to war over differing readings of zoning permits. Unless the central conflict is tied to something that is attention grabbing in the real world, why would anyone care?

The brilliant thing about the Geneforge series was that the main conflict was incredibly well defined, drew the player in emotionally, and despite being fairly simple, lent itself to a more complex exploration of the issues via the games' factions. At this point, I'm beginning to feel like Geneforge was lightning in a bottle for Vogel. He created them, but I've never seen him say anything that would indicate he even understands what makes them so good from a design and world building standpoint.
 

Dayyālu

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The brilliant thing about the Geneforge series was that the main conflict was incredibly well defined, drew the player in emotionally, and despite being fairly simple, lent itself to a more complex exploration of the issues via the games' factions. At this point, I'm beginning to feel like Geneforge was lightning in a bottle for Vogel. He created them, but I've never seen him say anything that would indicate he even understands what makes them so good from a design and world building standpoint.


YOU DON'T SAY

Vogel said:
We're getting older, enough so that the end of our careers is in sight. We only have so many new stories in us now..

At times I wish the "I'm old, I'm tired, give me money" thing with Vogel was just memery.



After reading the blog post, yeah, it's Avadon redux. Not worthy of money or time.

Pity. I hoped maybe for a good story or two out of Vogel, but he's so old and tired and art assets are so expensive in a world with Bulgarian artists out there for pennies.
 
Last edited:

Haba

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Codex 2012 MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
Vogel said:
The creature and terrain art in the Kickstarter video is pretty close to final. A lot of work went into those creatures/walls/floors, and I'm quite happy with them.

Weeeeeelp then.

Vogel said:
I feel bad about asking for more money for something a real developer would do as a no-brainer.

At least you are honest, I'll give you that.
 

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