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Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,394
You have to understand, the companion quests in the first game were simply too complex.
F6qNE5U.jpg

Er... what is it that made PoE1 companion quests so expensive to implement? They didn't look like expensive quests to me.
Wot?I alone could make all the companion quests of PoE 1 on NWN engine, under a week, what is he talking about?
Pallegina quest:
Go there, talk with some dude.
Eder quest:
Go there ,talk with some dude.
Aloth quest:
Go there, talk with some dude.

Only Grieving Mother and Durance would be more complicated because of the big amount of writing involved on them.

Now compare this with even Shadowrun Daggerfall and Hong Kong where all companions had an exclusive level dedicated to each. If "go there and talk with dude" is too expensive for Obsidian, why aren't they shifting focus to mobile gaming already? That seems more suited to their capabilities.
 

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,123
p6940Wn.png


hYHtdiR.png



Feargus you master negotiator. I hope this poor singer got paid with something more than just royalties on this massive traffic.

:slamdunk:

This is just sad.

Yeah, it's a damn shame because he's done really good job and sings exactly how I want shanties to be sang. I hate fagotty shanty groups that sing like they are a high school choir. Shanties need to be belted out and this guy does exactly that.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
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Messages
37,083
Location
Bulgaria
Some must be stealing money for those lame quests to be expensive.....most likely a lot of people are stealing money.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,394
Not only that, but where's the fun in fucking a normal person? I'd take fishmonsters and scythe-addicted hillbillies over Basic Bitch No 47832492 any day.
Regular fishmonsters can be fuckable, feminist fishmonters is where I draw the line.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,083
Location
Bulgaria
p6940Wn.png


hYHtdiR.png



Feargus you master negotiator. I hope this poor singer got paid with something more than just royalties on this massive traffic.

:slamdunk:

This is just sad.

Yeah, it's a damn shame because he's done really good job and sings exactly how I want shanties to be sang. I hate fagotty shanty groups that sing like they are a high school choir. Shanties need to be belted out and this guy does exactly that.
It is only natural,obsidian terribly misused the shanties. They lock them behind a buggy moral trigger,many people didn't even hear the shanties. Also made them play only during sea travel and not during sea battles and island exploration,that way you got to hear the first 30 seconds of the shanty,in my game i haven't heard a whole shanty. It is real shame,they are pretty good.
 

Ulrox

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
363
Okay, I haven't read the other 300 pages of this thread, but I want to ask the codex, is there a consensus on this game? Is it good? bad? Would I be blown away if I invested in it? Or is that a mistake?

Grant me thy wisdom codex!
 

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,123
Yeah it is incredibly dumb the way shanties work. Infinitron doesn't Josh respond to you on his tumblr blog? Fucking tell him how retarded it is to have best part of the soundtrack either not play at all, or play in 30 second bits while you're swimming between places. Especially since music is probably the weakest part of the whole game.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
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Messages
37,083
Location
Bulgaria
Some must be stealing money for those lame quests to be expensive.....most likely a lot of people are stealing money.

Just like in every governmental and educational institution in Bulgaria! I feel like home.
Well not everyone,but generally yes. I don't see what is the connection to the thread.....outside of we being competent on the greedy thieving cockroach spotting angle.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
Well not everyone,but generally yes. I don't see what is the connection to the thread.....outside of we being competent on the greedy thieving cockroach spotting angle.

I am saying Obsidian is a Bulgarian operation. It all makes sense that way. Obsidian's money is lining someone's personal pockets while the actual devs are struggling and thinking "go there and talk to some dude" is an "expensive" """quest""".
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,083
Location
Bulgaria
Yeah it is incredibly dumb the way shanties work. Infinitron doesn't Josh respond to you on his tumblr blog? Fucking tell him how retarded it is to have best part of the soundtrack either not play at all, or play in 30 second bits while you're swimming between places. Especially since music is probably the weakest part of the whole game.
Having an option check for shanties to play in a constant would be a good thing. Sadly by the look of it they don't have the brains to come up with the idea or/and the skills to implement it. Seeing their whining about expenses it would most likely cost a 100,000 to do it.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,083
Location
Bulgaria
Well not everyone,but generally yes. I don't see what is the connection to the thread.....outside of we being competent on the greedy thieving cockroach spotting angle.

I am saying Obsidian is a Bulgarian operation. It all makes sense that way. Obsidian's money is lining someone's personal pockets while the actual devs are struggling and thinking "go there and talk to some dude" is an "expensive" """quest""".
Nah,it would have been a lot more successful if it was Bulgarian operation. Now a operation worthy to be called Bulgarian is the Star Citizen one. Chris Roberts could even become a honorary Bulgar,he deserves the orden "Стара планина". Wouldn't be surprised if some law agency decide to raid his offices in a few years and firms to only find them empty scam stages. 10 guys in some garage making ship models a week and pretending that they are making a game,while cashing in all those 200 mills. Now that is a Bulgarin scam!
 

Rinslin Merwind

Erudite
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
1,274
Location
Sea of Eventualities
I subscribed on channel of guy who sang shanties. I know it's not that much, but it's all that I can do in this situation. Agreed about that shanties best parties of soundtrack (tavern music not that bad btw, but a bit generic).
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,394
Okay, I haven't read the other 300 pages of this thread, but I want to ask the codex, is there a consensus on this game? Is it good? bad? Would I be blown away if I invested in it? Or is that a mistake?

Grant me thy wisdom codex!
PoE 2 is that girl you know, that you fuck more because of a lack of options than truly love while you wait for that hot girl of an RPG where you will find your heart a cozy place and a nice marriage. When you look back, you will remember that unremarkable girl with some small admiration for a well provided service when you needed but not much more than that.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,083
Location
Bulgaria
I subscribed on channel of guy who sang shanties. I know it's not that much, but it's all that I can do in this situation. Agreed about that shanties best parties of soundtrack (tavern music not that bad btw, but a bit generic).
:negative: The tavern music is in the same boat as the shanties,there is a few really good songs. But by the time they start you are done with it. The inn in the dock district (the first one you visit) have really good one,some taverns just had meh music thou.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,083
Location
Bulgaria
Okay, I haven't read the other 300 pages of this thread, but I want to ask the codex, is there a consensus on this game? Is it good? bad? Would I be blown away if I invested in it? Or is that a mistake?

Grant me thy wisdom codex!
PoE 2 is that girl you know, that you fuck more because of a lack of options than truly love while you wait for that hot girl of an RPG where you will find your heart a cozy place and a nice marriage. When you look back, you will remember that unremarkable girl with some small admiration for a well provided service when you needed but not much more than that.
She is waiting for you pal,don't miss this chance!
Black-Geyser-Couriers-of-Darkness_Logo-657x350.png

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/grapeocean/black-geyser-couriers-of-darkness
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,653
I made a similar observation about PoE/Tyranny, but the same applies here: Kotor 2 was made in a year (vs Deadfire's 3 years), with a much smaller development team literally working out of Feargus' garage, yet it has almost twice as many companions (12 vs Deadfire's 7) and while not all of them are equally fleshed out, they have a wealth of content between them, including entire class-changing quests for almost half of them.
Pal, we have had this conversation before.
The first ever game made by Obsidian was produced with a smaller development team and using an engine and toolset unfamiliar to them and in half the time it took to develop Tyranny, and had twice as many companions (12 vs Tyranny's 6), yet those companions were much better written and designed and richer in content than Tyranny's.
That's because they were all written by Chris Avellone, who might very well be the fastest, highest quality writer in the industry. He also believes that he should have cut two of them.

There really is a massive gap between the kind of work Chris can produce in a given length of time and everyone else.
 

Rinslin Merwind

Erudite
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
1,274
Location
Sea of Eventualities
I subscribed on channel of guy who sang shanties. I know it's not that much, but it's all that I can do in this situation. Agreed about that shanties best parties of soundtrack (tavern music not that bad btw, but a bit generic).
:negative: The tavern music is in the same boat as the shanties,there is a few really good songs. But by the time they start you are done with it. The inn in the dock district (the first one you visit) have really good one,some taverns just had meh music thou.
Understood, anyway it's really shame that shanties silenced during travels on islands.
 

Cross

Arcane
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Messages
2,983
Pal, we have had this conversation before.
And you're making just as little sense now as you did then. Sawyer isn't saying the writers work too slowly and can't produce enough content. He's saying they deliberately made the companion quests simple because implementing more complex ones would be too expensive for some reason.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,653
Pal, we have had this conversation before.
And you're making just as little sense now as you did then. Sawyer isn't saying the writers work too slowly and can't produce enough content. He's saying they deliberately made the companion quests simple because implementing more complex ones would be too expensive.
Companions in kotor 2 didn't even have quests. :M

All that stuff about class-changing, that's on par with the relationship system.
 

Kyl Von Kull

The Night Tripper
Patron
Joined
Jun 15, 2017
Messages
3,152
Location
Jamrock District
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I made a similar observation about PoE/Tyranny, but the same applies here: Kotor 2 was made in a year (vs Deadfire's 3 years), with a much smaller development team literally working out of Feargus' garage, yet it has almost twice as many companions (12 vs Deadfire's 7) and while not all of them are equally fleshed out, they have a wealth of content between them, including entire class-changing quests for almost half of them.
Pal, we have had this conversation before.
The first ever game made by Obsidian was produced with a smaller development team and using an engine and toolset unfamiliar to them and in half the time it took to develop Tyranny, and had twice as many companions (12 vs Tyranny's 6), yet those companions were much better written and designed and richer in content than Tyranny's.
That's because they were all written by Chris Avellone, who might very well be the fastest, highest quality writer in the industry. He also believes that he should have cut two of them.

There really is a massive gap between the kind of work Chris can produce in a given length of time and everyone else.

This. It shouldn’t have been so surprising that MCA has made enough money to retire after just a few years of freelancing. We tend to focus on the quality of his writing, but the quantity is kind of mind-boggling. And presumably his stuff needs fewer revisions before it’s ready to go. Probably hard to overestimate just how much early Obsidian benefitted from being able to pay Chris far less than he was worth. Even his lowest quality stuff—NWN2—is still substantially better than the non-Avellone POE 1&2 companions. Now they need to pay two or three people to generate the same quantity and it’s uniformly much lower quality.

How long was Tyranny in development for? There’s a ton of text in there and IMO it’s a lot better than Deadfire on average. Was that all Matt MacLean?
 
Self-Ejected

MajorMace

Self-Ejected
Patron
Joined
May 6, 2018
Messages
2,008
Location
Souffrance, Franka
I bet it's a post-avellone trauma which caused them to pressure their writers into designing the most simple and straight forward quest structures ever. Gotta make sure you don't have to do all that time consuming edit afterwards.

Or it's the only excuse he found and he actually doesn't see the problem with these quests.

Either way, lul.

Companions in kotor 2 didn't even have quests.
Makes me wish the relationship system was akin to kotor II, letting us influence our mates into following our dispositions are pushing them towards the opposite dispositions, with appropriate banters and barks based on this to reflect their evolution.
Or more simply have their pre-set dispositions evolve depending on our choices in dialogues with them and their reaction to our choices/dialogues. Anything, really, but the shallow mess we got.
On another, related, note : why aren't dispositions self-exclusive between opposites ? Why didn't they make the obvious choice of polarizing gains/losses between diplomatic and aggressive, shady and honest, passionate and stoic, cruel and benevolent etc. Is it too expensive to put an extra line of code ?

Bottom line, if your organisation is such that you can't have the most mundane ideas without considering its implementation as a risk, you're done.
 
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