Incline Hexes or Squares?

[JarlFrank]

In real-life, people think in terms of the cardinal directions. Even though the Earth is a globe, not a plane. Two examples to highlight this: travelling east or west on a hex map requires a drunken walk, and perhaps more importantly, there isn't even a word in common parlance to describe 4 of the 6 directions on a hex grid.

North, northeast, southeast, south, southwest, northwest

 

[J1M]

In real-life, people think in terms of the cardinal directions. Even though the Earth is a globe, not a plane. Two examples to highlight this: travelling east or west on a hex map requires a drunken walk, and perhaps more importantly, there isn't even a word in common parlance to describe 4 of the 6 directions on a hex grid.

North, northeast, southeast, south, southwest, northwest

That is pretty inaccurate for the sensibilities of prestigious hex grid users. Perhaps you could get by with east-northeast or northeast by east? A bit of a mouthful either way.

If I was trying to argue your point, I would use the classical compass winds described by Aristotle because there are 12 of them.

 

[Darkzone]

In real-life, people think in terms of the cardinal directions. Even though the Earth is a globe, not a plane. Two examples to highlight this: travelling east or west on a hex map requires a drunken walk, and perhaps more importantly, there isn't even a word in common parlance to describe 4 of the 6 directions on a hex grid.

North, northeast, southeast, south, southwest, northwest

Clockwise North = 0° or 360°, northeast = 45°, southeast = 135°, South = 180°, southwest = 225°, northwest = 315°. Clockwise degrees in a hexagon: 0° or 360°, 60°, 120°, 180°, 240°, 300°. Sorry.. only north and south are correct.

Edit:
You have to use the 32 caridnal point compass to describe the hexagon better:
North, "Northeast by east" range(50.63°-61.87°), "Southeast by east" range(118.13°-129.37°), South, "Southwest by west" range(230.63°-241.87°), "Northwest by west" range(298.13°-309.37°).

 

[*-*/\--/\~]

Squares obviously have the issue of dealing with diagonal movement.

No, they don't. Why is it so hard for people to reach the simple "2 points for normal move, 3 points for diagonal one" conclusion? Your other arguments, like distance measuring and area of spells are much more valid... yet this diagonal movement thing always comes first, again and again.

By the way, how would you place a Large Gelatinous Cube on a hex grid? :D

 

[*-*/\--/\~]

On a side note, why it always that a character takes exactly 1 square? I'd like to see a game where the character is 2x2, his dog 1x1 and a an ogre 3x3. The finer grid could offer more granularity and alleviate some of the notorious square-problems.

 

[mondblut]

There are only 4 directional keys on my keyboard. Fuck hexes.

 

[Reinhardt]

Use numpad.

 

[mondblut]

Squares obviously have the issue of dealing with diagonal movement.

Says the proponent of tiles that have the issue of dealing with movement in fucking CARDINAL DIRECTIONS.

 

[Darkzone]

Use numpad.

No, because the 5 is surrounded by 8 numbers and not 6 and therefore it supports rather the movement in a square grid.
The hexagon grid is generated by moving every second line of dots to the side so that every dot of a line is right between the two dots of the lines that are above or below this line. (Dots representing the verticles.) On a keyboard the literals are ordered in such a meaner, but in the wrong direction of the verticles and not sides. Therefore the use of Q (northwest by west), W (north), E (northeast by east), D (southeast by east), S (south) and A (southwest by west) is better.
Btw. I know that you were just shitposting.

 

[Reinhardt]

Actually i like idea of hex overworld map and squares in dungeon.
And hexagonal combat map in squared dungeons.

 

[J1M]

If the cardinal directions don't matter, why be constrained by a grid of consistent tiles? Why not embrace a mosaic approach that can represent corners and curves? The brown ones are lava.

 

[Theldaran]

Go non-Euclidean. Cthulhu fhtagn.

 

[JarlFrank]

 

[DraQ]

Gridless, else hexes.

Since JarlFrank sperged about hexes, I don't have to.

 

[mihai]

Truncated octahedrons, for 3d movement of course (in a mathematical way, they are the true hexagons in space). Some day I will make a game around this. BTW, they look like octagons from the top, and moving into the smaller squares means also moving up or down half a level. And also, they are the voronoi cells of the bcc grid.

 

[dmonin]

In Hexes I trust.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

In hexes we trust!

 

[ushas]

Truncated octahedrons, for 3d movement of course (in a mathematical way, they are the true hexagons in space). Some day I will make a game around this. BTW, they look like octagons from the top, and moving into the smaller squares means also moving up or down half a level. And also, they are the voronoi cells of the bcc grid.

Heh, also briefly thought about the Voronoi diagram - adapt the grid to any dungeon needs

 

[Darkzone]

Truncated octahedrons, for 3d movement of course (in a mathematical way, they are the true hexagons in space). Some day I will make a game around this. BTW, they look like octagons from the top, and moving into the smaller squares means also moving up or down half a level. And also, they are the voronoi cells of the bcc grid.

Heh, also briefly thought about the Voronoi diagram - adapt the grid to any dungeon needs

Spoiler

But you both do know, that depended on the on the dots (vertices) distribution and the dimension the result can be a square or a hex grid or something else? What you both correctly described is that you can use Voronoi partition growth to a higher dimensional room than R2 or R3. Btw. Truncated octahedron (you aim here at the bitruncated cubic space-filling tessellation == bcc (bitrucated cubic honeycomb grid)?) cells have two different sides and therefore are do not regular, but at least they are uniform.

 

[mihai]

Truncated octahedrons, for 3d movement of course (in a mathematical way, they are the true hexagons in space). Some day I will make a game around this. BTW, they look like octagons from the top, and moving into the smaller squares means also moving up or down half a level. And also, they are the voronoi cells of the bcc grid.

Heh, also briefly thought about the Voronoi diagram - adapt the grid to any dungeon needs

Spoiler

But you both do know, that depended on the on the dots (vertices) distribution and the dimension the result can be a square or a hex grid or something else? What you both correctly described is that you can use Voronoi partition growth to a higher dimensional room than R2 or R3. Btw. Truncated octahedron (you aim here at the bitruncated cubic space-filling tessellation) cells have two different sides and therefore are do not regular, but at least they are uniform.

That's true, but at least the "diagonal" movement distances here are not that different from the linear ones (sqrt(3)/2 vs 1) so they can be approximated as being the same (0.866 ≈ 1) for a game. Then you get 14 roughly equal neighbors instead of having 6 direct, 12 2d diagonal and 8 3d diagonal neighbors in a 3d cube grid. One disadvantage is mapping, however, you can't easily use a piece of grid paper anymore. Also, imagine moving in such a voronoi-blobber - how would be the control scheme?

 

[DraQ]

If I were some horrible hipseter I would have said "Penrose Tiling" or somesuch shit, just to be original.

However given that:

• tracking position and movement in cRPG is machine's job
• conveying the above to the player is UI's job
• any system where minuscule change of positioning deterministically leads to diametrically different outcome is due for an overhaul
• as much as I can enjoy you math- and crystallography fags sperging about, trying to graphically represent any sort of 3D tiling will inevitably lead to a massive, unreadable clusterfuck of intersecting lines all alike on the screen

the sane answer really is "gridless".

 

[Theldaran]

If I were some horrible hipseter I would have said "Penrose Tiling" or somesuch shit, just to be original.

However given that:

• tracking position and movement in cRPG is machine's job
• conveying the above to the player is UI's job
• any system where minuscule change of positioning deterministically leads to diametrically different outcome is due for an overhaul
• as much as I can enjoy you math- and crystallography fags sperging about, trying to graphically represent any sort of 3D tiling will inevitably lead to a massive, unreadable clusterfuck of intersecting lines all alike on the screen

the sane answer really is "gridless".

Are you assuming real time? Grids work well in turn-based games such as Fire Emblem, that has some degree of strategy (now's when you go and mock me)

 

[DraQ]

If I were some horrible hipseter I would have said "Penrose Tiling" or somesuch shit, just to be original.

However given that:

• tracking position and movement in cRPG is machine's job
• conveying the above to the player is UI's job
• any system where minuscule change of positioning deterministically leads to diametrically different outcome is due for an overhaul
• as much as I can enjoy you math- and crystallography fags sperging about, trying to graphically represent any sort of 3D tiling will inevitably lead to a massive, unreadable clusterfuck of intersecting lines all alike on the screen

the sane answer really is "gridless".

Are you assuming real time? Grids work well in turn-based games such as Fire Emblem, that has some degree of strategy (now's when you go and mock me)

I am assuming TB.

Grid in RT is such an obvious lunacy that it isn't worth mentioning.

 

[Theldaran]

Grid in RT is such an obvious lunacy that it isn't worth mentioning.

Yeah, but since your point was going gridless...

In TB, you need some indication of how far your character can move, or AoE, that kind of things. A grid is not out of the question.

 

[DraQ]

Grid in RT is such an obvious lunacy that it isn't worth mentioning.

Yeah, but since your point was going gridless...

In TB, you need some indication of how far your character can move, or AoE, that kind of things. A grid is not out of the question.

In RT going gridless is no brainer as spatial grid is completely worthless without temporal one (turns).

In TB you don't need grid to indicate all these things. You just need good feedback and queueing features in the UI on one end, and mechanics that avoids sharp, predictable transitions on the other.

If you do, after all, want grid, go for hexes - they suck less.