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Why the majority of the codex dont play the true classics?

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Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
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5,274
No, it's just that the GOAT RPGs happen to be non-fantasy.
 
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Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
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Not really. While the three games you quote *are* masterpieces in design, there are other games like PST, Betrayal at Krondor, Ultima 7, Ultima Underworlds, System Shock 2 which are all great games. Many of them have not been superceded to this day.

Sorry, but those games are not apex-level. There is a yawning chasm between them and the Holy Trinity. Deus Ex is far superior to System Shock 2 (which is still in the top 10). The others aren't even in the top 10.
 

DragoFireheart

all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
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...that makes 600kb of base memory available.

but how will I get enough bloom!?

People who can't set up dosbox are not the kind of people who would finished old games anyway, even if they came with a nice and easy setup.

You are wrong. The problem is DOSBOX is a barrier that begs the question: "why bother going through all the trouble to set up the emulator if I may not even like the games?"

I have a generic dosbox installation on my work laptop, so I can play dosgames during the commute to kill some time.

When I want to try a new DOS game I haven't tried before, I download it from an abandonware site, drag the .exe on my Dosbox-shortcut, and it automatically starts.
The most I ever have to do is run setup.exe to configure sound if it doesn't run right away.

Playing DOS games with Dosbox like that is even less effort than playing most games that run natively on windows. Drag .exe on shortcut, BOOM game starts, 90% of the time it also runs fine from the get go.

wow so much trouble

It's easier than using vi in Linux.
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,287
You are wrong. The problem is DOSBOX is a barrier that begs the question: "why bother going through all the trouble to set up the emulator if I may not even like the games?"
I don't know. How would you know if you like the game if you never tried it? Appealing to the lazy bastards of the world is not an award winning debating tactic.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,623
I don't know. How would you know if you like the game if you never tried it?

With any modern game, you install it and play. With the classics (read: ancient games, because even Fallout can be easily installed with minimum trouble) you have to go the extra length to set everything up properly, and that's before you even get around playing the game.

Let's be honest with ourselves: not everyone enjoys going through that process, and not everyone enjoys the classics. No one is better for finding enjoyment in games like Akalabeth, which I personally believe is a laughable game.
 
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Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
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Finally, PST and BaK are definitely in everyone's top 10 if they in any way like storytelling.

No one who seeks to preserve their credibility takes storyfag-influenced top 10s with any degree of seriousness. Storyfags are pure poison to the industry; scrubs.

BaK and Ultima 7 have aged disgracefully. No one even plays them anymore as a result, yet Fallout, Deus Ex and Jagged Alliance 2 are still as eminently playable as they were upon their inception.

***

DOSBox guys have it pretty easy. If you want to play some of the best versions of Golden Age RPGs, and some that are unique to its emulated platform, you need to install (Win)UAE. (If you need help setting it up and getting the games, drop me a line.)
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,287
I don't know. How would you know if you like the game if you never tried it?

With any modern game, you install it and play. With the classics (read: ancient games, because even Fallout can be easily installed with minimum trouble) you have to go the extra length to set everything up properly, and that's before you even get around playing the game.

Let's be honest with ourselves: not everyone enjoys going through that process, and not everyone enjoys the classics. No one is better for finding enjoyment in games like Akalabeth, which I personally believe is a laughable game.
What the hell are on about? Fire up DosBox, mount the folder you put all your Dos games into as whatever drive you want and use the command prompt to start a Dos game. If you think this is a difficult task, then you have bigger issues than you realise.
 
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Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
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I am actually a strong supporter of modern graphics and UI, but calling PST old is just ignorant. It is still quite playable.

I never called PS:T "old". It's barely able to be called playable because its combat is atrocious (covered that recently in my retrospective). It's also barely readable due to torrential fluff-dialogue which has no place in an RPG, let alone an AD&D one.

BaK, yes, has lost a bit of charm, but it's main strength was never the graphics.

Meh, other than its great writing, its graphics - at least, it's 2d graphics and UI - was actually one of its strengths (holds up). But again, it's combat is atrocious and its exploration is ruined thanks to primitive 3d (which isn't even as good as its wireframe/flat-shaded predecessors).

AoD for example only benefits from a strong emphasis on branching storyline.

AoD isn't a storyfag RPG; it has good combat and char-building.
 
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Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
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You are quite a queer cormorant in that you miscontrue my statements.

1. Lilura said PS:T is old.
2. Lilura said AD&D cRPGs should have no text.
3. Lilura said a remake of BaK would be good.
4. Lilura hasn't played System Shock 2.

How odd that I never stated or even implied such things.
 

octavius

Arcane
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Not really. While the three games you quote *are* masterpieces in design, there are other games like PST, Betrayal at Krondor, Ultima 7, Ultima Underworlds, System Shock 2 which are all great games. Many of them have not been superceded to this day.

Sorry, but those games are not apex-level. There is a yawning chasm between them and the Holy Trinity.

And yet OpenXcom is superior to JA 2.

BaK and Ultima 7 have aged disgracefully.

So have you. Sorry, I meant to say that I enjoyed BaK when I played it not many years ago. The graphics, and the ridicilous portraits have aged badly, but not the gameplay.
 

Covenant

Savant
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
343
Not really. While the three games you quote *are* masterpieces in design, there are other games like PST, Betrayal at Krondor, Ultima 7, Ultima Underworlds, System Shock 2 which are all great games. Many of them have not been superceded to this day.

Sorry, but those games are not apex-level. There is a yawning chasm between them and the Holy Trinity.

And yet OpenXcom is superior to JA 2.

I'd be interested in hearing why you feel that way. From my perspective, JA2 is such a clear advancement on (Open)XCom that I can't imagine why anyone would prefer the former. Nostalgia isn't a factor either, as I was playing XCom years before I'd even heard of Jagged Alliance. Hell, I downloaded XPiratez recently and spent about a month playing it and nothing else, but even though I was really enjoying it I still found myself wishing it could somehow have been done in the JA2 engine.
 

octavius

Arcane
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More variety.
More enjoyable.

EDIT: More Iron Man friendly, since your soldiers are more expendable than the mercs in JA2, and you don't have aggravating shit like enemies taking several hits in the head from a sniper rifle without taking damage.

I'd probably would have enjoyed JA2 more if it hadn't been hyped so much by Lilura and others. Great expectations is dangerous...
 
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Old Hans

Arcane
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Messages
1,442
I keep reading codexians that played Dragons Dogma, Blackguards, Expeditions:whatever, Legends of Eisenwald, Dark Souls, Wasteland 2, Pillars of eternity, shadowrrun, etc etc etc, but when it comes to the true classics (Ultima IV-VII; Might and Magic 2; Wizardy 6/7; Wasteland; Darklands; Betrayal at Krondor; Realms of Arkania II; Pools of Darkness; Dungeon Master etc etc) they make poker face.

Why?

PS: nothing wrong in playing the new generation games, but, in my little experience, if you didnt play the classics, you are losing the true magic . And I am a newfag, there isn't a nostalgic argument here.

PS2: yeah, my english sucks.

not everyone is 40+ year old who remembers those games so they dont really have the attachment. I dont get bent out of shape because some 15 year old never played Magic Candle
 
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5,869
Why are blobbers named blobbers anyway
Because they are abstract games and your party of multiple characters is represented as a single space (a "blob", or a single unit) compared to other units on the map (the grid). Enemies are also represented by a single space (a 'blob' encounter might contain 1 or 300 bandits, for example. But they're still contained within a single unit of space in the gameworld).

Incidentally, this level of abstraction is what allows these sort of games (blobbers) to be playable so quickly. In my old age, I consider this aspect to be one of their greatest strengths. The best blobbers provide a wealth of information with minimal space - in this age of extreme bloat, the economy is refreshing. Most of the great blobbers are also entirely playable with the keyboard, which further contributes to their speed.

I think the reason why younger players are put off by many of these classic games is that they expect a certain kind of standardization that has been 'codified' in the medium - press I for inventory, right click to move, left click to select, etc. This is an automated response and people don't think much about it, but when the industry was still in its formative years, there was no standard and each game had a particular solution. Some have truly bad interfaces, but others are extremely usable despite being very different from what became the 'standard'. A case in point is the Gold Box interface, which I think is one of the best, but has its quirks like using Home and End to scroll between text boxes.
 

DragoFireheart

all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
23,731
Alright,

I just beat the intro area for World of Xeen. Killed the Breeder Slimes and told the mayor that Joe is being a douchebag.

Now that I got a taste I want to remake my party and start over again. I want to tweek the one I have now so I can have lots of ranged weapon users. Currently have a Human Knight, Half-Orc Barbarian, Dwarf Paladin, Gnome Ninja, Human Cleric, Elf Sorcerer.

Any suggestions?
 

octavius

Arcane
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Alright,

I just beat the intro area for World of Xeen. Killed the Breeder Slimes and told the mayor that Joe is being a douchebag.

Now that I got a taste I want to remake my party and start over again. I want to tweek the one I have now so I can have lots of ranged weapon users. Currently have a Human Knight, Half-Orc Barbarian, Dwarf Paladin, Gnome Ninja, Human Cleric, Elf Sorcerer.

Any suggestions?
Xeen is easy, so no need for any min-maxing.
Personally I want to have as many classes as possible in the party, and races too.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
Patron
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Jan 12, 2004
Messages
11,539
Location
Black Goat Woods !@#*%&^
Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
New guy has very specific tastes about what games he likes, decides that anyone who doesn't share those tastes is "untrue" and heretical and doesn't "really" belong here. Finally, someone on the Codex with the courage to say he knows what real RPGs are and what people should like.

Private message DarkUnderlord today, he'll send you your Codex Splinter Group Digital Starter Kit.
 

Grampy_Bone

Arcane
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
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Location
Wandering the world randomly in search of maps
Fairly certain if the Xeen games were released today they would be dismissed by the Codex as dumbed-down casual trash. But they are simple and fun and I love the way the monsters look so scandalized when you bonk them.

Holy shit though Disciples of Steel, this is a game for real men.

-Make a party of 8 guys, taking over an hour
-Assign formation/Equip starting gear
-Spend much time pondering initial XP allocation
-Take one step
-GIANT BATS!
-Fight off the bats, get some injuries
-Heal the wounded
-SURPRISE! LIZARDMEN AMBUSH!
-Lizard-rape intensifies
-Game over
 
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IncendiaryDevice

Self-Ejected
Village Idiot
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
7,407
I am here just to say that I dont even consider human beings the codexians that didnt like...ultima VII.

Ultima 7, the first part, is complete dogshit. Combat is among the worst I have ever encountered, dialogues are among the most tedious I have ever encountered, the quests are among the most tedious I have ever encountered, its inventory is among the worst I have ever encountered.

But, hey, it has great graphics AND YOU CAN BAKE BREAD! OMG BEST GAME EVAAAAR!

;)
 

Matticus

Educated
Joined
May 17, 2018
Messages
82
Most people don't play the true classics because it is a harsh, frozen land cut off from the rest of the world by a wall of jagged peaks called Oldskool Graphics.

But they say that history is the greatest of all teachers, and the tales of past deeds define who we are in the present, and what we shall be in the future.
 

Mustawd

Guest
Most people don't play the true classics because it is a harsh, frozen land cut off from the rest of the world by a wall of jagged peaks called Oldskool Graphics.

The graphics of most old school games are great tbh. Even M&M 1 is still ok. I think what gets me is the whole oldschool DOS color scheme of magenta, teal and white. Hurts my eyes.
 

Matticus

Educated
Joined
May 17, 2018
Messages
82
The graphics of most old school games are great tbh. Even M&M 1 is still ok. I think what gets me is the whole oldschool DOS color scheme of magenta, teal and white. Hurts my eyes.

I was speaking broadly, and trying to inject some humor by quoting IWD1. I personally like pixelated graphics. For the last few years I haven't played a single game released beyond the year 2000, with the exception of Pillars 2 just recently. But I admit I don't usually go back further than 1994.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
Patron
Joined
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Messages
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Black Goat Woods !@#*%&^
Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Most people don't play the true classics because it is a harsh, frozen land cut off from the rest of the world by a wall of jagged peaks called Oldskool Graphics.
For me it's usually not the art but the garbage interface. Blobbers with mouse only controls. List inventories with 5 items per page. UI buttons the size of dinner plates. Game field that takes up 15% of the screen. It's like playing guitar with gardening gloves on. You can do it, but it's just not good.
 
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