Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Lacrymas]

I know he didn't, I specifically said I'm not addressing the PoE2 case. I was just responding to Rinslin who said that a god of death can be proven by he killing someone.

 

[FreeKaner]

The Codex: Pillars 2 sucks because it departs too much from the BG2 formula
Also the Codex: And it doesn't innovate enough

PoE1 copied BG for all the wrong reasons. Dumpsterfire is better in this regard, copying Athkatla down to display of map and districts was a good thing, especially since they did this for some other smaller cities as well. Athkatla deserves imitation. What doesn't is the baggage of D&D and Sword coast world and aesthetics. As well as 2nd edition AD&D on derivative RTwP.

PoE shouldn't have tried to be BG and PST at the same time in the first place. I wish they never got into philosophy and theology, just reality of Gods as patron deities (can keep the fact they are artificial and ramifications of that).

 

[Maculo]

But by that logic, VMB is shit because you cannot stop Caine, or MotB is shit because you cannot stop the wall of the faithless and go against the gods. In Planescape Torment, you still end up dying in some manner (merge with Transcendent One or destroy yourself with dagger/belief) and killing a companion as the penultimate boss (Ignus or Vhailor) because reasons. The ending of Planescape Torment does not dramatically change (i.e., hell or nonexistence), yet people find plenty of reasons to play it.

Would it be nice? Sure, but saying it is a massive fuck up on PoE2's part, when few games have gone to that far, just seems over the top.

It is a massive fuck up because the story is too short and badly presented, sure if it was a longer and more interesting compared with VMB or MOTB or PT but it's not even close. The main story is basically 3 islands with a total of 5-6 maps and 6 main missions that can be completed in less than 20 minutes each. Also the side-quests are not related to the story at all, basically 90% of the side content is oblivious to the fact that a giant adra god is rampaging around and it's about to destroy the dumb wheel.

That is an entirely different issue though. To say you disliked the quality and quantity of the writing is one thing, but to say that the game automatically shit, because the game does not offer entirely new routes and/or drastically changing the climax, is an entirely different issue. Even Planescape Torment, VMB, System Shock 2, Arcanum, and Morrowind did not offer that level of branching.

Those are games made 20 years, I expect something different from 2018, you know a little more creativity and effort, instead I'm playing a more mediocre version of BG 2 that was made two decades ago, truly inspiring.

Again, you bring up an entirely new issue. You are stating a game that does not offer an free form branching paths in 2018 is automatically shit, but then how is that issue unique to PoE2 at all? Furthermore, why would that be a measure of quality, when Planescape Torment, Morrowind, VNB, etc. did just fine without it?

 

[AwesomeButton]

This is such a shallow display of understanding of pre-abrahamic religions, one I didn't expect of you. Pantheons and pagan religions were all about display of power, as they were meant to signify and revolved around duty and ritual (as opposed to morality & judgement of Abrahamic religions), if a mortal was in commitment of hubris by challenging Gods, ironic punishment was what they got and deserved, for trespassing their duty and ignoring their ritual.

Apollo skinned a man alive for playing the lyre better than him. Athena cursed a woman for weaving better than him. Hades doomed a man essentially into lobotomy for daring to be attracted to Persephone. I could give similar examples for other pagan religions as well if you want (primarily Egyptian and Mesapotamian).

Trying to justify Gods from a lenses of reason is a very new concept, so is indeed assigning them completely neutral and objective logic.

All the examples you give have one thing in common - these are cases where a mortal challenged a god. "Hubris is punished" is a fundamental belief in ancient Greek culture, and their gods reflect that.

From what I remember, the Greek gods themselves generally "consider" that meddling in the lives of mortals is a bad thing to do. What usually happens is that a dispute between the gods spills into the world of mortals, due to the gods having favorites among prominent mortals ("heroes"), and due to some mortal being related to some god.

Lacrymas is right that interaction between mortals and gods in PoE is more free than in Greek mythology, but I think we should give the game a pass on that because
1. It's a game after all
2. Party members are, after all, "heroes" in the Greek sense. They are not regular dudes cussing at the gods. Neither Durance, nor Pallegina are just anyone when they address the gods in anger. And neither is the PC just anyone when he raises his sight to the sky and asks "Any help now, Berath?" at the shipwreck.

 

[LESS T_T]

Chat with Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire director Josh Sawyer at 3PM EDT

After Obsidian entertainment breathed life into the top-down CRPG genre with Pillars of Eternity, it managed to keep its momentum going with both Tyranny and a new crowdfunded sequel Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire. The art of designing an enchanting role-playing game has always been a nebulous one, especially when targeting a fanbase attached to the conventions of an older genre, but game director Josh Sawyer and his colleagues have doggedly worked to prove that you can teach old dogs new tricks, and find new, interesting design decisions on these well-trodden paths.

Because we at Gamasutra can't stop playing Deadfire (no seriously, we can't, please send help), we're inviting Sawyer onto our Twitch channel at 3PM EDT for a Q&A about developing the game. we're going to tackle everything from combat design to stat management, so be sure to drop by and ask your questions in Twitch chat!

https://www.twitch.tv/gamasutra

 

[AwesomeButton]

That's today?

 

[Lacrymas]

2. Party members are, after all, "heroes" in the Greek sense. They are not regular dudes cussing at the gods. Neither Durance, nor Pallegina are just anyone when they address the gods in anger. And neither is the PC just anyone when he raises his sight to the sky and asks "Any help now, Berath?" at the shipwreck.

That would've been an interesting angle to explore. Our party being heroes in the Ancient Greek sense and they relating themselves to the gods in such a manner. I don't think they succeed in doing that in PoE, however. I vaguely remember saying something like that, instead of the Watcher business in PoE, a god (or even Raedric, mirroring Eurystheus) could've given us the Twelve Labours of Hercules, one of them being stopping the empowerment of Woedica.

 

[FreeKaner]

AwesomeButton Yes, I have touched those in my other posts if you read them. I do find the concept interesting and yes we can consider MC more alike to Dionysus in a sense than just any random person.

One could wish we will have Gilgamesh take on the Gods one day with Mesapotamian Gods, priesthood and temples. However that's probably never happening as video games can't even do Greek gods right yet, PoE errs too much towards Abrahamic outlook.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Screw the gods, here is actually important question: whatever happened to the ancient dwarf? Does the poor fella just stand there, forever doomed to wait until we start another playthrough?

 

[dragonul09]

But by that logic, VMB is shit because you cannot stop Caine, or MotB is shit because you cannot stop the wall of the faithless and go against the gods. In Planescape Torment, you still end up dying in some manner (merge with Transcendent One or destroy yourself with dagger/belief) and killing a companion as the penultimate boss (Ignus or Vhailor) because reasons. The ending of Planescape Torment does not dramatically change (i.e., hell or nonexistence), yet people find plenty of reasons to play it.

Would it be nice? Sure, but saying it is a massive fuck up on PoE2's part, when few games have gone to that far, just seems over the top.

It is a massive fuck up because the story is too short and badly presented, sure if it was a longer and more interesting compared with VMB or MOTB or PT but it's not even close. The main story is basically 3 islands with a total of 5-6 maps and 6 main missions that can be completed in less than 20 minutes each. Also the side-quests are not related to the story at all, basically 90% of the side content is oblivious to the fact that a giant adra god is rampaging around and it's about to destroy the dumb wheel.

That is an entirely different issue though. To say you disliked the quality and quantity of the writing is one thing, but to say that the game automatically shit, because the game does not offer entirely new routes and/or drastically changing the climax, is an entirely different issue. Even Planescape Torment, VMB, System Shock 2, Arcanum, and Morrowind did not offer that level of branching.

Those are games made 20 years, I expect something different from 2018, you know a little more creativity and effort, instead I'm playing a more mediocre version of BG 2 that was made two decades ago, truly inspiring.

Again, you bring up an entirely new issue. You are stating a game that does not offer an free form branching paths in 2018 is automatically shit, but then how is that issue unique to PoE2 at all? Furthermore, why would that be a measure of quality, when Planescape Torment, Morrowind, VNB, etc. did just fine without it?

What is it that you don't understand? The main story is too linear, poorly explained and too short , you don't get to digest what is happening and before you know it the credit starts to roll. You know nothing till the end, when they decide to drop a load of mambo jumbo pulled out of their ass because they were too incompetent to make an interesting story. And yes, length does affect quality when the story is rushed and poorly explained, like I told you, the main story can be completed in under 2-3 hours and it mostly consists with you visiting only 3 islands, that's not enough content to properly explain a story of this magnitude.

 

[FreeKaner]

That's not to say I do not find Abrahamic outlook, theology or philosophy interesting. I think however that's only fitting in context of an all powerful, all benevolent and omnipotent God. That theology and philosophy on matters of belief and explanation of God as the absolute can only make sense when God is singular and above humanity, universe and time.

 

[Lios]

The gods in Greek mythology punishing mortals does not "prove" their domains or what those domains are. They can and have displayed pettiness, but not with the intention of proving themselves, nor is any proof required. That's the point.

Euripides' Dionysus seem to disagree with you, my good man.
Check "Bacchae". If you've already done so, check it again.

 

[fantadomat]

What are these drops? They happen at 0 minutes of xy hour usually.
Doesnt seem to be Steamcharts downtime or it would happen for all games.
Cant be update since they arent forced.
Timeouts from Steam?

The Russian bot servers maintenance hour!

 

[Jenkem]

What are these drops? They happen at 0 minutes of xy hour usually.
Doesnt seem to be Steamcharts downtime or it would happen for all games.
Cant be update since they arent forced.
Timeouts from Steam?

steamcommunity.com maintenance

 

[Parabalus]

A part in Deadfire I found cool was that gods were (literally) invested in your companions, I thought the ending sequence would be more antagonistic/engaged from the entire pantheon and that it'd come in to play.

what was the codex backer content specifically?

The Sensuki pet and a unique item, don't think anyone posted the name of the latter here.

 

[AwesomeButton]

AwesomeButton Yes, I have touched those in my other posts if you read them. I do find the concept interesting and yes we can consider MC more alike to Dionysus in a sense than just any random person.

One could wish we will have Gilgamesh take on the Gods one day with Mesapotamian Gods, priesthood and temples. However that's probably never happening as video games can't even do Greek gods right yet, PoE errs too much towards Abrahamic outlook.

Even fewer people would relate to a story borrowing from the Gilgamesh epic than would get the Ancient Greek references. I skip most posts after the first few words because people keep posting spoilers without spoiler tags.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

I thought Nemnok is the Codex pet?

 

[Maculo]

What is it that you don't understand? The main story is too linear, poorly explained and too short , you don't get to digest what is happening and before you know it the credit starts to roll. You know nothing till the end, when they decide to drop a load of mambo jumbo pulled out of their ass because they were too incompetent to make an interesting story. And yes, length does affect quality when the story is rushed and poorly explained, like I told you, the main story can be completed in under 2-3 hours and it mostly consists with you visiting only 3 islands, that's not enough content to properly explain a story of this magnitude.

Because you seem to be changing your point between posts. You started by saying the game sucks because of a lack of branching paths at the climax, then that the main story is too short, and then that a game in 2018 must innovate beyond Baldur's Gate. Now, we are back at the game being way too short. If you think it is all three, that is fine, but just need to mark when you are moving from one point to another.

Furthermore, as I said in my prior post, I think it is perfectly fine for someone to criticize the game for the quality and quantity of the writing. I just think it is over the top to call the game shit, because it does not have a branching plot that virtually no game offers or that specifically suffered for its absence (e.g., Planescape Torment).

 

[Mr. Hiver]

How you starve while surrounded by sea? By not having ocean-going ships and the weather being shit, for example.

Because you need "ocean going" ships to fish.
And weather being shit... mhmm,.. a "shit", gotcha. I guess some rain would make you starve to death while being incapable of walking to the shore and catching some fish or plucking some clams.
Thats just it, you see the weather is "shit" and you lie down and starve to death.

There is nooo waaaay anyone can catch fish from smaller boats either, which - people living in an archipelago just dont know how to make.

It.. just cant be done.

started out well then dissolved into nitpicking.
we should criticize the writing based on examples more often, good idea, bad execution, 2/10

Right, right, its nitpicking... not that important that those are examples of how the entire conversations with companions and various NPCs you interact with in the game, is written.

The most important thing is that a couple of imbeciles found two examples that are not as bad as their devolved cretin brains understands the term.
Because thats the measure for good writing.

Also Darth Roxor those terms are used for young females, and while they use to refer to their marriage status it isnt all that term describes,
while i am not playing a young female... and we certainty dont call eachother bachelors first time we ever see someone. Or ever. regardless, that example wasnt meant to show the "worst evah!!!" writing, but another in a long line of lousy pointless expressions.

 

[Parabalus]

I thought Nemnok is the Codex pet?

I thought so too, but I just managed to miss Sensuki. Infinitron confirmed it's the troll.

The only game that does gods right is MoTB. There you encounter two gods, both raised from the ranks per se being mortals in their previous life and then examine how they fit in the same role, the role of the god of death. At the same time, the game makes light of the idea of Justice, how divine justice is just another name for the whim of the gods and of the necessity of divine worship. Now that is how epic stories are written. PoE 2 is a child at the feet of the giant that is MotB.

I wouldn't read too much into MoTB since the endings were what they were since WoTC didn't allow tearing the wall down. In the devour Akachi ending there is no real reason you couldn't tear down the wall or manfight Kelemvor, likely would there would be other different endings as well.

 

[Infinitron]

The troll was in fact inspired by Sensuki. I even told them it should speak with an Australian accent/dialect if they make it talk.

Our other backer content is also inspired by a guy from Australia so that's kind of funny.

 

[Matticus]

I thought Nemnok is the Codex pet?

Nemnok hopes your boat sinks.

 

[Infinitron]

Stream is live:

 

[aweigh]

Stream looks good. Can't wait for the game to come out.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

I thought Nemnok is the Codex pet?

I thought so too, but I just managed to miss Sensuki. Infinitron confirmed it's the troll.

Well that's lame. Nemnok basically personifies the Codex, especially if you take him on your ship.