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Why the majority of the codex dont play the true classics?

JarlFrank

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Skyrim, a classic? Wasn't it released just yesterday or something?

checks the year

Fuck, why does time fly by so quickly? :negative:
 
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MajorMace

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milleniuls were 10 back then
they had plenty of time on sunday and nothing to do but fuck around in skyrim
they love that game dude, they love it
 

Galdred

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
And you thought those interfaces were shit even back then, did you?

Yeah, back then I didn't mind the interface. I also didn't mind if protagonist is a gallant knight on a quest to save a princess. Guess what, taste changes over time.

Which RPG do you specifically refer to? I agree with the UI part, but regarding quests to save the princess, I don't remember playing that many, unless you count Zelda. Most involved saving the world, but it is popular among newer RPG.
Also Battletech has you literally saving a princess.
Being a gallant knight beats being an adventuring psychologist who helps his teammates solve their childhood issues, while having relations with some of them in my book.
 

Raghar

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I keep reading codexians that played Dragons Dogma, Blackguards, Expeditions:whatever, Legends of Eisenwald, Dark Souls, Wasteland 2, Pillars of eternity, shadowrrun, etc etc etc, but when it comes to the true classics (Ultima IV-VII; Might and Magic 2; Wizardy 6/7; Wasteland; Darklands; Betrayal at Krondor; Realms of Arkania II; Pools of Darkness; Dungeon Master etc etc) they make poker face.

Why?

PS: nothing wrong in playing the new generation games, but, in my little experience, if you didnt play the classics, you are losing the true magic . And I am a newfag, there isn't a nostalgic argument here.

PS2: yeah, my english sucks.
Old graphic is QUITE bad on modern screens.
 

Bocian

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(Ultima IV-VII; Might and Magic 2; Wizardy 6/7; Wasteland; Darklands; Betrayal at Krondor; Realms of Arkania II; Pools of Darkness; Dungeon Master etc etc)
How many times can you replay the same shit? Everyone, by now, probably managed to finish these at least once.
 
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RNGsus

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I've got Jagged Alliance 2, ToEE, Deus Ex, and several MMs on gog, but I don't replay them much except every couple years. Serpent in the Staglands has been my hobby lately, but usually when I've got game time, I get high and fall asleep instead. By the time I get back to my apartment, I've smoked like 8 bowels already, and just want to put the day away.
 

Zanzoken

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I will admit that playing old games is difficult for me. For instance I saw Darklands being mentioned. When I hear people talk about Darklands it sounds so awesome, but when I tried to play it I found the presentation to be impenetrable. To the point where in combat I couldn't even tell what my characters were doing.

I don't think it's because the game is bad. I am just not old enough to have played a game from 1992 in its prime and proper context, so it creates a translation issue, like reading Shakespeare. You have to be willing to spend time "learning the language" to enjoy it, and to be honest more often than not I just can't be bothered with it.
 

Raghar

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Boy I played them, but I will not kill my eyes by playing them on 27'' monitor.
 

Brozef

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Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
What gets me even more is that so many people pretend to like "classic" or "old school" crpgs, but mean the IE games.
I've decided that 1998 is the current year, everything afterwards is new stuff, classics are from the 80s and old is 70s. I'd be glad if people could stop confusing things.


But seriously, I have two main issues. One is with wireframe games. Couldn't really get into them, since they make the main drawback of most Blobbers (samey corridors) infinitly worse and the lack of any mapping tools means I am too lazy most of the time. I really hope GridCartographer will get an Automapping feature for some games (and steam pricedrops).
The other issue for me is decision paralysis. I have/had this problem with Wizardry. Since I am autistically devoted to MMIII-V, I completely missed out on the whole Wizardry series. And with all the different editions (PC, Apple, PC Engine, NES, SNES.....), I can never decide where to start and which versions to play. So I only played Wiz8 (dabbled in 6+7). Everytime I try to start with part 1 or 6 I go down the rabbit whole reading about the different releases and abandon ship.

But one of these days I will play them.
 

DragoFireheart

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because the average codexer is a popamolist in denial

What old classic would you recommend me?

I need some kind of graphics. Anything older than 8-bit NES is too little. No shitty ASCII art.

Light on story. I've played too many Final Fantasys and other jRPGs with inane stories. I want to dungeon crawl and kill shit, not hear about some chicks idiotic story.

I also want to be able to make my whole party from the start. I hate having third-party NPCs come midway, fuck off with that shit.

Combat should be turn based, but it doesn't need to be some Fire Emblem / D:OS / Chess gird like combat. Simple menus like Dragon Quest is fine.
 

croitav

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The tactical combat of JA2 is overrated. It's not that much more advanced than JA1, weapon range is too important, and you fight a very limited cast of enemies.
(Open)Xcom has better combat, and so does older fantasy CRPGs like Disciples of Steel and Nahlakh.


mondblut
 

mondblut

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The tactical combat of JA2 is overrated. It's not that much more advanced than JA1, weapon range is too important, and you fight a very limited cast of enemies.
(Open)Xcom has better combat, and so does older fantasy CRPGs like Disciples of Steel and Nahlakh.


mondblut

What? He is not exactly wrong. As long as AI remains easily baited into target practice shooting (and it will be until it begins to buy games too), weapon range >>> everything and sniper rifles backed up by assault rifles/MGs will rule the field, and larger caliber will trump smaller caliber. Who cares about minor trivialities like ammo weight, recoil and a couple more APs on readying the weapon? Outside of IRL battlefield, nobody does.

And yeah, dragons and ghosts and chain lightnings and charm persons would improve its diversity significantly.
 

Darth Roxor

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because the average codexer is a popamolist in denial

What old classic would you recommend me?

I need some kind of graphics. Anything older than 8-bit NES is too little. No shitty ASCII art.

Light on story. I've played too many Final Fantasys and other jRPGs with inane stories. I want to dungeon crawl and kill shit, not hear about some chicks idiotic story.

I also want to be able to make my whole party from the start. I hate having third-party NPCs come midway, fuck off with that shit.

Combat should be turn based, but it doesn't need to be some Fire Emblem / D:OS / Chess gird like combat. Simple menus like Dragon Quest is fine.

world of xeen
 

SkiNNyBane

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Grab the Codex by the pussy
Advent of Diablo and Fallout changed everything; RPGs hit their high-point in 1997-2003. Combo of API + super talent/visionaries.

• three best pure RPGs (Fallout, Fallout 2 & Arcanum)
• five best party-based RPGs (Baldur's Gate, BG2, Icewind Dale, IWD2, Wizardry 8)
• two best open world RPGs (Daggerfall & Morrowind)
• two best hack n slash games (Diablo & Diablo II)
• best toolset (Neverwinter Nights: Aurora)
• three best tactical turn-based games (Jagged Alliance 2, ToEE, Silent Storm)
• best story-based RPG (Planescape: Torment)
• four best action RPGs (Gothic, System Shock 2, Deus Ex, Severence)
• the greatest PC games of all-time (Deus Ex, Jagged Alliance 2)

No era comes close to the Renaissance era. We don't look back, we don't look forward. We settle right here.

Yea I remember opening up gaming magazines early 2000 and just getting all tingly inside about the future of gaming. Now all I ask for is that the next game isnt even more dumbed down then the previous one.
 

Zboj Lamignat

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"Old game had horrible UIs hurrr" meme used en masse just confirms that many people participate in the discussion without having relevant first-hand experience. Pretty much all best-selling rpgs from the last decade have UIs straight from hell, especially if you are a PC user. If you can stomach F3(NV)/F4 UI, for example, without turning suicidal then you should be more than fine with vast majority of games from the nineties at least. In fact, if you are an actual PC gamer familiar with terms like "hotkeys" and "functional brain" then you will find many of them pleasantly inclined compared to modernity. Provided, of course, that you can process the fact that most of them are computer games and have more interactivity than press a for awesome and their interfaces must accommodate that.

I think people nowadays are much less tolerant of games unnecessarily wasting their time. So things like bad UI, high encounter rate with unchallenging combat, basically anything that soaks up time without challenging the player appropriately - fetch quests, backtracking, unskippable tutorials - come off as much bigger sins today than they did in the past because we're no longer limited in our game-playing by what games are available (were any of us talking about our 'backlog' back in the early 90's?) but by how much time we have. It's not just the classics that suffer from this, naturally, but they were much more likely than a modern game to have you need to go through ten different screens for some simple inventory management.

Not that plenty of games being released today aren't doing the same thing and worse, of course.

At least you have the decency to instantly acknowledge your argument is bs, but still massive wtf. How are are things like unskippable tutorials or lack of player challenge relevant in this discussion as an argument in favor of newer games.
 

zaper

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I'd probably be playing JRPG shit to this day if it wasn't for a couple of guys on mIRC who played Ultima Online RP with me and told me there were was a series before the MMO. It was from them that I learned about Darklands, Wasteland, Fallout 1 & 2, Arcanum, Planescape, Daggerfall, etc. I owe these guys a lot.

That being said, I think clunky mechanics, dated graphics and too much text don't appeal to most of people who play games nowadays. They prefer the "cinematic experience" rather than the freedom of choice.
 

Norfleet

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JA 2 doesn't waste your time, which is why the 1.13 mod has to add a bunch of features to prevent things like "making a noise and then waiting in corner shooting enemies one at a time"
That is a CHOICE of playstyle. There's also the option of not making any noise and just murdering everyone in the darkness with knives.

and the long rebuilding phase after every mission training militias and tediously repairing every item with your b team of geeks.
Those don't require much of your time, though. You just leave that to your B team and move on with the murderin'.
 

Cael

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"Why the majority of the codex dont play the true classics?"

Well, think about it. How many of modern day CRPG players would get past the throne room of The Magic Candle the first time they played the game?
 

thesheeep

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Codex 2012 Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Well, think about it. How many of modern day CRPG players would get past the throne room of The Magic Candle the first time they played the game?
I don't see how that is relevant.
There is something called the internet.

I love some of the classics, but certainly not all of them. The UI in many cases is just too horrible and wastes too much of my time.
The graphics of some are actually lovely - e.g. Wizardry 7 which I'm currently playing for the first time - and the music as well.

Wizardry 7 is actually a good "border case" game.
Its good parts (combat, characters, graphics, music) are really well done.
Its bad parts - incredibly clunky UI and terrible map (that you have to FIND first, too!) - are at least somewhat usable.
Take the map, at least it has one and it is even influenced by skill. But it is absolutely tiny - I have to open it every few steps in a new location to get any idea where I am -, you cannot put any notes there and the method to open it is just downright retarded (as is general item usage).
 

ilitarist

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"Old game had horrible UIs hurrr" meme used en masse just confirms that many people participate in the discussion without having relevant first-hand experience. Pretty much all best-selling rpgs from the last decade have UIs straight from hell, especially if you are a PC user. If you can stomach F3(NV)/F4 UI, for example, without turning suicidal then you should be more than fine with vast majority of games from the nineties at least. In fact, if you are an actual PC gamer familiar with terms like "hotkeys" and "functional brain" then you will find many of them pleasantly inclined compared to modernity.

Nope.

F3/F4 UI looks like it's sent from heaven when you compare it to older games. For example, in Might & Magic 6 you have to do a lot to just have a proper mouse control with WASD. Then in combat to cast any spell apart from autocast you have to open spellbook, open the needed page and only there select a spell, and combat happens either in realtime or dozens of turns. In older Avernum/Geneforge games you have to use whole keyboard for effective control, same for older roguelikes like Nethack or Angband. I played a lot of this but it's beyond my comprehension why do you need different commands for wearing something, putting on rings and wielding a weapon - even if there are items that you can use in a variety of ways you still have to have default "equip" button for those things.

Console games certainly aged better. If I were to play older Wizardry today I'd use SNES version or something like that probably. Also those older games weren't that complex for variety of reasons. Even something tactical like Angband becomes a chore. Even games that I enjoyed back in the day infuriate me today with their UI and lack of complexity. And balance
rating_sawyer.gif
, of course: it seems most of those games longevity comes from realizing how the game systems misrepresent what character/party you really need. Hence all those guides that explain what party you'd use if you played the game for 10 hours discovering you made wrong answers for initial question.
 

J_C

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The ridiculous thing is that some "hardcore" players think that the janky, badly designed, absolutely non-intuitive UIs in these old games are somehow a great thing and this is what makes these games good. NO, back in the days designers didn't know better and they look and work like an abortion in this day and age.

Some of the old games have fantastic story - Batrayal at Krondor.
Some of the old games have great dungeons - Might and Magic, Wizardry.

But many of them are so lacking in quest design, narratives, C&C after playing games like Fallout, Bloodlines or even BG2, that I don't see too much value in playing them. Not saying that one shouldn't play them because they can be fun as hell, but I don't think one should lose their hardcore creds because they didn't play them.
 
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