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Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

Ulfhednar

Savant
Joined
Apr 29, 2017
Messages
809
Location
Valhalla
But yeah, they probably overstretched by promising too much (we've BG1,2 / IWD / Torment and mooaar in one game!).
This.
I love the game, but with the current Obsidian staff, the only spiritual successor they could reasonably pull off is "IWD 3". They should drop any pretentious narration or C&C and focus solely on dungeon delving with solid encounter design and ramp the challenge to 11.
 

Suicidal

Arcane
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
2,208
White March messed up literally everything that is possible to mess up on business level.

Too expensive.

Too late after the launch.

Splitting in in two was incredibly dumb - who the fuck will buy "part 1 of the addon"?

Mid-game expansion instead of endgame was also retarded. I couldn't get ANY the friends who liked the first game to play WM . They all have other games to play and didn't want to waste 20 hours starting over just to get to the expansion.

Indeed. Initially I didn't want to play WM because of these reasons and only bought it much later at a discount.

Whenever I play a big RPG I make lots of saves in different slots in case something breaks and I'll need to reload an earlier save. If I hadn't made a bunch of saves before going into PoE's endgame, I probably would have never played White March at all and consequently would have missed on some of the best storyfaggotry modern RPGs have to offer.
 

2house2fly

Magister
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
1,877
This is exactly why I am saying that the different markets are different and is not relevant.

This is exactly why I am saying that the different markets are different and is not relevant

That's why you compare it with D:OS 2

D:OS 2 at release date had close to 80k and it's peak was 93k players online and it's still outpacing PoE 2 right now, which barely had 17k at release date and it's peak is 22k.

Let's look at his older brother, PoE had over 40k players online at release date and it was number 1 on steam for a few days, PoE 2 was for like 5 minutes. It's not hard to understand, people didn't enjoyed the first game and the remaining base doesn't seem to like that PoE 2 was transformed into a more retarded version Pirates of the Carribean.

Game is a mess, it's easy, it has a convoluted and short story, lazy encounter design, boring exploration, small maps and so many other small issues that it made the game less desirable than the first one. Let's hope they bury this franchise and the morons who proped it up
If people didn't enjoy the first game then why are the user reviews for it on Steam and Metacritic in the 80s? It's easy to say "I dislike the game so obviously everybody does" but in the process of saying that please explain why four out of five people are pretending to enjoy it
 

2house2fly

Magister
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
1,877
There was nothing stopping TWM from being post-game content, it would've even strengthened its narrative because you wouldn't have taken a leisurely stroll to another part of the country while being ravaged by insomnia and maddening visions.
So they should have made post-game content in a game nobody finished because they didn't enjoy it? This sounds like good business sense to you?
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
If people didn't enjoy the first game then why are the user reviews for it on Steam and Metacritic in the 80s? It's easy to say "I dislike the game so obviously everybody does" but in the process of saying that please explain why four out of five people are pretending to enjoy it

Even less than 1 in 5 people completed the game, so that should tell you something about how much user reviews and scores can be trusted. 43% completed act 1! 22% completed act 2. That "overwhelming love" isn't supported by actual sales and data, so how do we explain this disparity?


So they should have made post-game content in a game nobody finished because they didn't enjoy it? This sounds like good business sense to you?

They didn't play it either way.
 

2house2fly

Magister
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
1,877
With shitty bite sized DLC.

When the fuck did people lose taste for meaningful expansions? No more Throne of Bhaal, Lord of Destruction, etc.
What are the sales figures for those expansions compared to the base games?
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
I'm not supporting post-game content ardently, I just said there was nothing stopping TWM from being post-game content and it would've been more fitting in the context of the narrative and in hindsight. They can do whatever they want with Deadfire's DLC since the game is structured like that. What I am ardently arguing for is bigger expansions and not bite-sized DLC.


If you were in charge of a video game development studio, would you choose the option which was likely to make more money or the option which was likely to make less money?

None of the options made them money. Simply from a business perspective, I wouldn't have made an expansion, only less than half of the players completing act 1 is a disastrous statistic and I wouldn't trust my playerbase to buy the expansion. I also wouldn't have directed the Kickstarter so poorly and promised the moon, but that's neither here nor there. Since they did promise it and they HAD TO make it, I'd review what evidence I have first and then choose what to do. I don't see evidence that says mid-game DLC sells better, can you provide some? Less than 10% of people completing the game tells me nothing really, only 20% of them completed act 2, so that's abysmal, regardless of anything. It's clear the retention is almost nonexistent, so every option would've lost me money. In terms of the artistic perspective, post-game is a much better choice in this context, and since I would've been forced to do it, I'd rather lose money by making it make sense, rather than lose money by forcing it clumsily into mid-game.
 

FreeKaner

Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
6,908
Location
Devlet-i ʿAlīye-i ʿErdogānīye
I'm not supporting post-game content ardently, I just said there was nothing stopping TWM from being post-game content and it would've been more fitting in the context of the narrative and in hindsight. They can do whatever they want with Deadfire's DLC since the game is structured like that. What I am ardently arguing for is bigger expansions and not bite-sized DLC.

I am not sure as a general rule you are wrong, but really if you ever give dumpsterfire a try you'll see this is best option for making the game better. New Vegas sized scattered content to explore that makes about a quarter of the game, while another quarter is smaller islands and dungeons, it will contrast very well with the remaining half is the main city. It's p. close to BG2 formula. Ignoring BG2's expansion that is.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,955
Location
Russia
Fought vampire crypt (one where you get secrety secret sword) lvl 14-15 or something, they're level 17

- Potion of clear mind -- they seem to override it

- Scroll of spirit -- they seem to override it, you need to recast it after every gaze lol

- Blindness -- 2.00016% chance to hit cause spellcaster accuracy in this game is shit

oh and they're bugged, they autoapply gaze against ranged attacks or something. Maybe.

Thankfully druid summoned slimes can tank well. Sent Eder with anti-gaze shield and he killed everything after like 20 minutes.

But, I noticed a funny thing when tried to blind them. There is a PoTD bonus on grenades (+15) to accuracy. It doesn't state anything on grenade stats on my actual skill, but it does get bonus from INT, STR, etc.

So, my main orlan-chan, who got turned down by Eder, has 20+ str, 20+ per, 20+ int. That translates into almost 90 accuracy grenades, that have massive +50% aoe's and work over 40 seconds. Compared to spells that's some massive acc I must say, so I ended up bombarding last duo of alucards with a fire bomb and did some good damage. And there is a bomb which stuns/blinds.

You can do some serious oomhp with these things and larp witcher or whatever.

Also, sadly, judging by 2d playthrough if you really want to play wizords, Cleric is very important for the party. Without that +20 acc buff Aloth hits like a wet noodle. You should either carry Xoti around or make your own spellcasters with 20 might 20 per. Melee characters don't care since they all have abilities with +acc on them and can reliably hit anything given right equipment.
 
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Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
I am not sure as a general rule you are wrong, but really if you ever give dumpsterfire a try you'll see this is best option for making the game better. New Vegas sized scattered content to explore that makes about a quarter of the game, while another quarter is smaller islands and dungeons, it will contrast very well with the remaining half is the main city. It's p. close to BG2 formula. Ignoring BG2's expansion that is.

They can still be that, alla TotSC. A few, big islands, supported by a few smaller ones, with a big dungeon in the middle of the biggest island, alla Durlag's Tower. Really, the only difference is the marketing strategy in this case. But, like I said, they can do the bite-sized content, I just don't know if that will be satisfying and whether they'll justify the price tag. 10 bucks for a Raedric's Hold sized dungeon is too much.
 
Self-Ejected

MajorMace

Self-Ejected
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Joined
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Souffrance, Franka
Potion of clear mind gives resistance to int affliction. I was mistaken last time, I think I said it gave immunity, but I was wrong.
So it does jackshit actually.

Rogue's blind is probably the very best option.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,955
Location
Russia
Druid: All oozes/slimes: immune to int afflictions, immune to resolve afflictions :whiteknight:

Vampires: :x

reminded me of tanking undead with undead in BG2, too bad I can't mass haste and mass invis my murderous packs of slime.
 

FreeKaner

Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
6,908
Location
Devlet-i ʿAlīye-i ʿErdogānīye
They can still be that, alla TotSC. A few, big islands, supported by a few smaller ones, with a big dungeon in the middle of the biggest island, alla Durlag's Tower. Really, the only difference is the marketing strategy in this case. But, like I said, they can do the bite-sized content, I just don't know if that will be satisfying and whether they'll justify the price tag. 10 bucks for a Raedric's Hold sized dungeon is too much.

It will probably not be Raedric sized dungeon, probably it will be like an entire new area of PoE1 that has quests, side quests and tasks but without a hub. So something like Durgan's battery area including the workshop for example, possibly with some stuff added in the base as well as breadcrumbs.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
Also, I forgot to add the most important bit in my "what I'd do if I were them" - what is the chance the players who didn't complete even act 2 will return for a mid-game expansion? It's clear they aren't the target audience for the game and it's much more likely that people who completed the game would return and wouldn't have to make a new character to play the expansion. Why were they trying to cater to players who dropped the game halfway through, it doesn't make sense.
 

2house2fly

Magister
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
1,877
None of the options made them money. Simply from a business perspective, I wouldn't have made an expansion, only less than half of the players completing act 1 is a disastrous statistic and I wouldn't trust my playerbase to buy the expansion. I also wouldn't have directed the Kickstarter so poorly and promised the moon, but that's neither here nor there. Since they did promise it and they HAD TO make it, I'd review what evidence I have first and then choose what to do. I don't see evidence that says mid-game DLC sells better, can you provide some? Less than 10% of people completing the game tells me nothing really, only 20% of them completed act 2, so that's abysmal, regardless of anything. It's clear the retention is almost nonexistent, so every option would've lost me money. In terms of the artistic perspective, post-game is a much better choice in this context, and since I would've been forced to do it, I'd rather lose money by making it make sense, rather than lose money by forcing it clumsily into mid-game.
Player retention drops over time. Therefore, the further after launch an add-on comes out the smaller its potential audience is. Therefore, a big expansion that takes six months to come out will not sell as well as a smaller DLC adventure that takes two months. Therefore, putting the same amount of resources into three smaller adventures rather than one big one has a higher chance of making money. As far as mid-game content vs post-game content, well, according to steam achievement statistics 90% of players did not complete the game. It's one thing to make DLC only 10% of players will buy, but quite another to intentionally make it so only 10% of players even have access to it when bought.

As far as the artistic perspective, I don't see much artistry in "and then after that the hero went on another, shorter adventure."
 
Self-Ejected

MajorMace

Self-Ejected
Patron
Joined
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Messages
2,008
Location
Souffrance, Franka
The rymrgand dlc is the only one I'll get for sure. Rest will depend on how they'll fix and improve the game in the following months.
Who am I kidding ? I'll get them all
:negative:
 

2house2fly

Magister
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
1,877
I am not sure as a general rule you are wrong, but really if you ever give dumpsterfire a try you'll see this is best option for making the game better. New Vegas sized scattered content to explore that makes about a quarter of the game, while another quarter is smaller islands and dungeons, it will contrast very well with the remaining half is the main city. It's p. close to BG2 formula. Ignoring BG2's expansion that is.
I agree with this. Deadfire's format is well-suited to a DLC that's a couple of decently sized quest chains and dungeons
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
They might have bet that people that already completed the game will buy the expansion anyway while trying to hook for those that just stopped after playing ACTI.
That's a pretty risky bet, one that they lost. It also doesn't take into account human psychology. There is no incentive to do anything when you can always reach that anything without trying. There is an interesting case with discounts, a big market chain decided they'll lower their prices across the board, but not have sales as frequently. The result was a staggering 50% drop in the profits because people always knew the prices were low, so they didn't rush. By not rushing, they just didn't go at all. I'd say the same/similar psychological mechanisms are at work here as well. Developers seem to be underestimating the psychological reaction to struggle and the special connection that struggle forms. Making everything more accessible is not the solution, it's the problem.


Player retention drops over time. Therefore, the further after launch an add-on comes out the smaller its potential audience is.

Player retention was nonexistent from the start, it didn't drop over time, that's the problem. Only 43% completing act 1 is weird, 20% completing act 2 is damning and a clear indicator that something is up.
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,432
The rymrgand dlc is the only one I'll get for sure. Rest will depend on how they'll fix and improve the game in the following months.
Who am I kidding ? I'll get them all
:negative:

I hope we'll get more than 3, though somehow I doubt it. Since PoE3 seems unlikely Dumpsterfire is something that'll be milked to the last drop.


Implying people bought dos2 because it's a tb rpg, and not because it's an online coop game with a tonne of coop-supported (if not encouraged) mechanics.

D:OS2 lured quite a bit of the "GTA" crowd, since the game is fun to just dick around in, especially with friends. As a RPG it's lacking, but apparently nobody cares.
 

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