Indie Eidolons: Nethergate (old thread)

[CryptRat]

new thread here : https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...ed-hardcore-rpg-crowdfund-it-in-april.126787/

OLD :

Spoiler

Itch page, with the quoted description : https://eidemiurge.itch.io/eidolons
Videos : https://www.youtube.com/user/VonFinsterheim/videos
Dev log on TIG Forums : https://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=64707.0
Dev blog : https://eidolons-moe.blogspot.fr/
Twitter (some gifs there) : https://twitter.com/EiDemiurge

Full description :

Spoiler

Eidolons: Mists of Ersidris is an epic roguelike roleplaying game in a dark fantasy setting. It features global map adventuring, real-time exploration, turn-based combat and deep hero creation with over 20 spell schools, 10 combinable base classes and 50 skill trees. To be released in September 2018!

In this age of noise, many wander the land searching for something different, something deeper. If you are one of those, search no longer, friend.

I invite you to follow me here where I keep my Devlog, and on Twitter for latest updates, let's set sail together!

*†* MAIN FEATURES *†*

♦ Innovative ATB-based combat with deep mechanics and unique rules

♦ Real-time map adventure and dungeon crawl

♦ Custom game mode on a large map with random elements

♦ Powerful random dungeon generation

♦ Deep and Flexible Hero Creation

♦ A gripping campaign full of action and drama, sorcery and betrayal. And yet, a mere beginning of the true Saga...

Now for some details:

<><><><><†> COMBAT<†><><><><>

♦ Dynamic rounds system - units make (sequences of) atomic actions one after the other. This is real fighting, just in slow motion †

♦ Fathomless depth of tactical combat - realistic in every detail, from wounds and bleeding to panic and confusion effects.

♦ Powerful spells from over 20 schools of magic, affecting mind, spirit and body, sometimes with a blast. Or a poof.

♦ Unique companions that follow your Orders (or don’t) in their own ways, just like real ones would

♦ Arsenal of Death at your disposal - Hack, Slash, Thrust and Decapitate at will, every attack is special!



<><><><><†> EXPLORATION <†><><><><>

♦ Crawling through dungeons filled with monsters wandering, patrolling, guarding and stalking the claustrophobic corridors.

♦ Discovering chests, traps and secret doors bestowed with magic

♦ Advanced Visibility system that makes you take lighting seriously, as it can be your ally or foe in the predatory game of stealth and survival.

"Quiet! There's something moving up there..."

"I don't see anything... What is it?"

"I don't know... I think I saw an outline of something... monstrous."



<><><><><†> HERO CREATION<†><><><><>

♦ Choose from among 20 Backgrounds, lowly or nobleborn, human or dwarf, half-elf or Returned.

♦ Choose two out of nine class trees for the hero to develop

♦ Combine up to 10 of the 40+ types of Mastery (with half of them being Magical Arts)

♦ Choose a deity to venerate from among the 18 primordial gods of the Aeruil Plane, follow the ways of a recognized religion or put your faith only in your own self.

♦ Experience a deep and wholesome roleplaying model of the ten Principles! War and Peace, Honor and Treachery, Freedom and Order, Tradition and Progress, Ambition and Charity - every action you take can add to your Integrity, if it aligns with what you really believe in.

<><><><><> CAMPAIGN <><><><><>

♦ Psychological adventure - in the mist-haunted wilderness of the Ravenwood, the unlikely companions from the Greyrock Bastion will be put to a test no one can ever prepare for.

♦ High Fantasy meets Eldritch Horror!

Wreathed in ancient darkness and otherwordly mist, Ersidris is a place of sinister myths, desperate heroes and black-hearted villains. Yet wonders of the Old World are still there to be uncovered…

♦ Deep roleplay of indirect control - in the end, your Leadership decides everything, be it based on fear, love or respect of your companions

Can a band of such misfits ever truly stand together? I urge you to find ways to make them do so, or we must all fall in this darkest of hours. †Sir Gelrion Llyn†



<><><><><> DEVELOPMENT <><><><><>

♦ I am working solo on this project, full-time as of late. The technology used is mainly Java/Libgdx. And by the way, I am looking for able-handed developers to work with! (we are hiring...)

♦ What is already solid: Combat system, hero progression systems, core hero content

♦ What is not: Campaign - already has a solid script, but little is put into working order yet;

♦ Upcoming Kickstarter campaign - it's a very scary topic for me, but I promised myself not to back away this time!

 

[dragonul09]

That map and the art in general gives me a woody

 

[Infinitron]

The combination of incredible art and KotC2-style barebones board game presentation is rather unusual.

Videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/VonFinsterheim/videos

 

[HoboForEternity]

Interesting

 

[Egosphere]

Amazing soundtrack

 

[Lurker47]

The artstyle is a bit boring but it's pretty good. The UI is triggering my usual gripes but it's got some charm to it. Everything else seems pretty great.

 

[V_K]

My eyes bleed looking at the UI. Plus looks like there's a lot of numbers creep - 40 this, 20 that, and I don't really see the (randomly generated) level design supporting this kind of granularity.

 

[CryptRat]

Announcing the Closed Beta

Spoiler

Yes, that's right,
Closed Beta is coming!
Within two weeks, I will start the show, and I will need the some brave warriors to challenge the dark!





In particular, I am looking for hardcore roguelike fans, if you are one - don’t hesitate to subscribe to the mailing list and participate!




Now, if you haven’t found the courage yet, let’s talk about it.

What to expect from the beta?

Just a number of hand-made dungeon-level sequences that you have to crawl through (victory is just if you can exit the last dungeon, so be sneaky if you like )

To make it more likely that you survive, I have added Ghost Mode option, that basically allows you to crawl undetected by enemies, so all you have to do is to navigate the maze and master the controls. You can kill off those you encounter too, they can’t fight back ghosts.



Notes:
I haven’t done much balancing (none really), but I’ve been playing around those dungeons for a while and have a sense that they can range from trivial to challenging depending on chosen difficulty.

My focus has been on making the experience smooth and implementing the core features

I will probably disable most ‘tricky’ features and rules, so you will not have to read a ton of tutorials to understand what’s going on
Since in fact, there isn’t really a functional tutorial yet, only a sparse manual and some rule descriptions

Anyway, if you are into roguelikes and hardcore rpg’s, I think you will like it (or the sense of potential the game has at least )

New hero creation won’t be available yet, but you will level up and gear up your selected hero

The main goal is to figure out ‘early on’ (after 7 years of development...) what the main issues with general gameplay mechanics and usability are.

I will issue a questionnaire for you and of course, welcome any free-form feedback!


The Question I have for you this time is this:

Do you have Java8? Do you even know what it is? Could you run a .jar file in console? These are very relevant questions for me, please consider dropping me a line

 

[Brancaleone]

The aesthetics look to me a mix between Disciples 2 and 3.

 

[Werdna's Revenge]

Reminds me a bit of Arkham Horror style art, especially with the boardgamey presentation.

 

[Scroo]

Looks pretty interesting. Thanks for sharing

 

[CryptRat]

Spoiler

He's got a blog where he doesn't directly talk about the game but about the world where the game takes place, he just added a new entry : https://twoe-edalar.blogspot.fr/

He also made two posts on the blog dedicated to the game about game mechanisms a few days ago :
Class System Overhaul

Spoiler

It's a bit rushy here at the moment, so let's dive right into it!

The main novelty is that now you build your own class tree for your hero

This custom Class Tree will consist of Class Ranks and Class Perks.
There are nine base groups for the Class Ranks:

♦ Fighter (soldier/warrior)
♦ Squire (‘paladin’/leader)
♦ Rogue (dps/stealth)
♦ Trickster (defensive/stealth)
♦ Scout (ranged)
♦ Hermit (‘druid’/’shaman’)
♦ Acolyte (‘cleric’)
♦ Apostate (powerful spellcaster)
♦ Wizard Apprentice (versatile spellcaster)

Each group has its own branching tree, in which Class Ranks are nodes. Each Rank has its own requirements, usually involving an amount of Mastery score.

When you qualify for a Rank, you can assign it in a free Rank Slot of corresponding Tier in the Class Tree. Filling these slots will allow you to choose free Perks and unlock higher tier slots (normally, 2 Class Ranks grant 1 Perk slot and unlock 1 slot in the next Tier)

Class Perks are divided into 3 levels:
Level I: Tier 1-2
Level II: Tier 3-4
Level III: Tier 5

Class Perks are chosen for free when you unlock the slot; some of them are plain Parameter modifiers, e.g. “Indomitable”, “Steadfast” and “Resourceful” increase Spirit, Endurance and Quick Slot Number accordingly. Each Class Rank has about 6 such standard options, and a few special Ability- or Passive-Perks and one that is unlocked only if both unlocking Ranks are the same class.

E.g. when you have filled 2 Tier1 slots with Apostate Class Ranks both, you will be able to choose either one of the parameter perks - Overpowering, Penetrating, Aligned, Meditative, Sharp, Prodigious; Passive Perks - or Visceral Magic, Eldritch Alignment, Distant Voices or the the special Unleashed Mind perk for double-Apostate.
On the other hand, if you select to combine Apostate and Trickster classes, you will have a much broader choice, and be able to put Witch Blade multiclass Rank into the unlocked slot.

Note: the perks you choose do not affect which Class Ranks you can put into the higher tier slots; but some perks may have synergy with certain classes down the path - e.g. necromantic perks will be best if you ultimately plan to go all in into Undeath.


Here is the WIP photoshop mockup of the new class tree:





On this tree we have 5 tiers of Class Ranks:
DL
PS SH
WM NB AS
DA DA WB SP
AP AP AP TR TR

Where:
AP – Apostate
WZ – Trickster
DA – Dark Adept
SP – Spy
WB – Witch Blade (Multiclass)
WM – Witch Master
NB – Night Blade (Multiclass)
AS – Assassin
PS – Psionicist
SH – Shade (Multiclass)
DL – Death Lord

The perks between tiers are just mockups. For now...

Yes, I almost forgot - I promised to add an open question to each post!
Here it is:

In this new system, every 2 base classes must have some multiclass...I must admit that many of the 9 base classes do not have all the multiclasses thought out (let alone designed)!
In fact, the game needs 8+7+6+5+4+3+2+1 = 36 (!) Multiclasses, and those kind of need at least a few higher-tier branch nodes...

So for instance, what could Trickster/Squire amount to? Feel free to share

Skill System Overhaul

Spoiler

Yes, that's right, Skill are next on my list!
Luckily, I am thinking that Skill Tree will be built similarly to Class Tree - only with Mastery (i.e.‘skills’ like Move Silently/Listen/... in DnD) Ranks and Skills. There are 42 Masteries in the game at this moment.

Mastery Ranks are acquired automatically, one for every 5 score points (regardless of the cost).
with maximum being 8 - Tier. (at some point investing in newly acquired Masteries will not give any skill slots, if you already have all Tier 1 filled for example)

Two adjacent Mastery Ranks create a Skill Slot which can be filled with a skill of the same Tier. Available skill pool is determined by the Mastery types that created the slot and special requirements
(you can explore the separate skill trees of every Mastery in the Eidolon Space)
Normally, at least one of the two Mastery Ranks must be of the same group, sometimes special requirements for both apply (e.g. Ultimates can only be taken if you have connected the whole branch)

Skills, on the other hand, are optional and have their own cost in Experience points
Here is the WIP Mockup I've got:





So the way this will be used is this - you invest Mastery points, gain ranks, they appear as diamonds on this tree, eventually unlock circle-slots. Then you click the slots and a menu (radial or some such) will appear from where you can choose one of the available Skills to fill the slot. Voila, simple! Isn't it?..
Actually, there will be some strategic thinking involved here - you need to think when you up your Masteries, or you will mess up the slots... But those are details!

Now, a small question this time. Not really open either... Anyway, I think getting rid of ‘spendable XP’ might be a good thing, what do you think?
You can join the reddit discussion here if you want!

♦ Bonus Question:
Do you think that spendable xp points (on class ranks, skills, maybe spells) is a good thing?
The game already has a “level per xp” system like many other rpg’s; the alternative I see is to make all the stuff that is now bought with xp points either free or based on some other metric like simply level or some special points or something else that you might suggest!

 

[Life of the Party]

It's pretty impressive that all of this is done by one man. It's one thing to code, but to also do the writing, art and music actually requires some serious talent in multiple fields.

You should probably pay close attention to this game, Codex.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Amazing game! Will try to download beta today

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Lenghty video of the "Full Version!" :



I hope it means will well be able to play the game soon.

 

[Ovg]

I just hope we can replace inventory graphics. Also, the UI gives me a strange diablo vibe...

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Closed beta has been publically released -> https://eidemiurge.itch.io/eidolons

Not sure if its a bug, but you can snatch it if you want before it's too late.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Some screenshots of interface:


Quick looks at weapon stats:

Spoiler

Quick look at character screen:

Spoiler

Weapons have various types of attacks:

Spoiler

Try figuring out these formulas:

Spoiler

The difficulty level seems to be mostly about changing % of yours and enemies stats. Before that you can select 3 types of dungeons, from easy to hard.

Spoiler

So far the game seems to be very beautiful and quite deep mechanicly, but controls are VERY clonky and it seems to be a tendency for minifreezes and crashes.

Spoiler

The movement is tank controls with WASD moving your character based on the direction he is currently facing and QE turning you character around. You can't move diagonally with WASD (but can with mouse) and can't move into enemy to attacks.

Left mouse click is used to drag camera around, which doesn't seem to automatically follow your character or move when you drag it to the edges of the screen.

Since plain left mouse click is reserved for dragging camera, everything else you do by alt + left click. There is also a radial menu which opens on right click, but context controls with alt+left click seems to do the job.

 

[Citizen]

What I love about games with minimalistic presentation - is their readability. But this looks minimalistic and at the same time bloated. Would still probably buy, 'cos tactical combat, but they really need to redraw both the UI and graphics.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

What I love about games with minimalistic presentation - is their readability. But this looks minimalistic and at the same time bloated. Would still probably buy, 'cos tactical combat, but they really need to redraw both the UI and graphics.

It isn't that readable, unfortunately. It's hard to differentiate object on screen, you can't tell whether the tile is occupied by a wall, a pile of garbage or an enemy at first glance. But is is beautiful...

The game has 6 (SIX!) resource bars: toughness, endurance, stamina, morale, essence, focus.

 

[EiDemiurge]

Hello friends, this is Alexander EiDemiurge, the dev behind Eidolons.
Thank you all for expressing interest and giving constructive feedback on the game, it means a great deal to me!
Now, to clarify, it is not a bug that the game has gone public, I have decided to 'open' the closed beta, compulsively so I guess, since the game is far from ready, but I've been keeping it in the shadows for too long and... yeah, you can read more about this here.

A few comments on what has been remarked:
First, do not be so scared by the unit-info-panel and the weapon/action tooltips they are sure to be revamped. I know that the info screen is terrible and not readable, that’s why I have re-designed it and will implement it first thing after I recover after the beta-crunch.
Here is the new design in the making, tell me if you find it ok or in need of improvement:

Spoiler

Next, readibility. I am afraid that to "redraw both the UI and graphics" is out of the question at this point, not unless I suddenly get rich and all, I've been working for ages on this stuff and it's all I have, but I know how to improve, I believe.
I am going to consider what can be done to make units stand out more from the objects, although to be fair, it was never my intention to make the game ‘easy’ in this way - have you noticed how low-illumination causes everything to appear as generic outlines? That’s the gritty realism of it, too dark, sorry, can’t say what it is, tree or foe
Anyway, can you tell me what exactly would improve readibility in a game with like this? And maybe that of the many so many stats and stuff under the hood, or is it generally ok the way it is, for a hardcore game?

By the way, here is a bigger collection of screenshots, straight from the beta:
http://bit.ly/060screens

Also, I must say that while I am a solo dev and a one-man team, I do not do all the art and music myself - I also work with freelancers and contributors from time to time... it’s a long story, I have been interviewed by a game writer about the story of how this game came to be - which was a lot of writing on my part - but the article has not yet come live anywhere, and I don’t know when it will. I have never given an interview before, let alone post it anywhere, I have no idea about these things.

Anyway, if you get to try the beta, you are most welcome to give your feedback in one of these places as well:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eidolons/
https://www.stomt.com/eidolons
[URL='https://blogspot.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=f2a41b4a436e346acc36340d9&id=1803989b08&e=c22fa13cd1']http://forums.roguetemple.com/index.php?topic=5585.0
https://gamejolt.com/games/eidolons/326176
http://www.indiedb.com/games/eidolons-mists-of-ersidris[/URL]
https://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=64707.0

PS I wasn’t aware of this thread’s existence until yesterday; in fact I wasn’t much aware of this website’s existence, which was a huge failure on my part, I see I was in fact too recluse a mudcrab!

 

[PrettyDeadman]

The game's art is cool, but it's all very dark and has the same gamma and shape for icons, which makes it all blend together.

Think about making different shapes for various types of objects on a board: round for charcaters, square for anything else..

Make lighting engine behave differently: the areas which are not explored/out of line of site probably should be pitched black.
I think that adds a to readability and sense of space.
In the original picture its almost impossible to tell that the area to the upper right is seperated by an impenetrable wall and unexplored while the area to the upper left is explored and in open sight because they are lit the same:

Spoiler

Vs. this:

Spoiler

Make sure that there is a good contrast between floor tiles and wall. Think about drawing the walls differently - like an actual isometric walls with a sense of volume, not another 2d flat object on a board.
I am talking about something like this:

Notice how much contrast there between a walls and floor.

Infinitron compared your game's presentation to Knights of the chalice 2. It also features flat chip like figures on a board. Take a look at the presentation (again, notice the contrast and readability):

 

[Life of the Party]

Took you long enough to show up, Alex.

Keep in mind Codexers can be somewhat nitpicky but there's no better place for RPG feedback. So pay no attention to IGNs of the world and listen to what people like Pretty have to say because chances are you two want the same thing.

Good luck and tell Mary I'll always love her.

 

[EiDemiurge]

Took you long enough to show up, Alex.

Keep in mind Codexers can be somewhat nitpicky but there's no better place for RPG feedback. So pay no attention to IGNs of the world and listen to what people like Pretty have to say because chances are you two want the same thing.

Good luck and tell Mary I'll always love her.

Yes, I have taken my time =) And now also a look around the place and it is definitely the ultimate source of RPG buzz!
Btw, will it be OK if I open a new thread for the game, as an author, so to speak? This one is great but a bit under-representative, I think I could lay out the materials properly.
I am very keen on starting to building a community around Eidolons, but so far my efforts have been almost for naught... I think I could start creating an information base about the game rules, is wikia a good option for this?
Of course, I will be quite busy fixing at least for another week - there are a lot of issues with beta, as I should have expected, since I never put the game out there before, just me and my brother tested it, so few scenarios/pc settings were checked.

 

[EiDemiurge]

Now, concerning to Pretty's comments and suggestions:

The undiscovered part of the map... Yes, it is strange how I didn’t think of making it plain black before! I got too used to the game as it is or perhaps it was just that I liked how it looked with the mist emitters... And then, pitch black fill on 90% of the map might put the game from ‘dark’ into ‘darkest’ category

I wonder it could also work to make the currently un-observed cells appear grayscale same as the “last seen” units do now (if you haven’t noticed, the are gray unit icons where you’ve seen someone before that you don’t see at the moment)

I am considering how it would be possible to use rounded portraits on the grid. Previously there used to be different kinds of borders I used on units - at least heroes and bosses had special ones.

Maybe more team-color highlighting will help? And btw, are the emblems doing their job at all? Those little things units have in the corner

I might try making the walls appear distorted somehow. It will make it a bit strange since they are in fact each a “bf obj” and hittable/destructible/targetable as such (all other things are plain 128x128 squares...)