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Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

Nryn

Cipher
Patron
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Messages
255
Divinity: Original Sin 2
Credits are rolling after 60 something hours, and I think Deadfire is a bit of a missed opportunity due to how uneven its content is. It overcame a sluggish start and seemed incredibly promising when I got to Fort Deadlight and then Nekataka. The game's cracks became easier to notice and harder to ignore the longer I played, preventing it from being the BG1 -> BG2 jump I hoped it would be. Spoiler-free thoughts on the game as a whole:

What I liked:
  • Itemization is one of the best in recent memory, with most unique items having unique enchants that reinforce the item's strengths and weaknesses. Deadfire's approach to itemization serves as a great counterpoint to Larian's abject itemization in D:OS2 where the Diabloesque "item fever" approach devalued unique and legendary items as item levels were the only criteria that really mattered, and thus, items needed constant replacing. In contrast, I found a Sabre in Deadfire's first real dungeon that was irreplaceable even at end game due to its unique abilities and enchants.
  • I had more fun tinkering with Deadfire's underlying systems than I did with POE1's. Multiclassing, limited engagement, preemptive (combat) casting of immunities to certain spells, surprisingly potent potions, and the aforementioned itemization all combined together to make my party feel powerful in a way POE1 never managed. It's very unlike Sawyer to leave in so many ways to utterly break the game, and long may it continue.
  • Most quests have multiple ways to complete them, including non violent means. Fort Deadlight, in particular, was probably the pinnacle of the quest design in Deadfire due to its multitude of scripted approaches. I also appreciated that I could outright murder important NPCs and still finish the game. On another positive note, the game also takes a leaf out of Fallout 1's book since one can go straight to the end of the game if one knows where to go, and the means to get there.
  • Splintered Reef and its accompanying "Paradise of the Mind" quest gave me such strong BG2 flashbacks, in that it is an entirely optional area consisting of an hour+ long quest, unique lore that provides context to stuff in the critical path, and some of the more challenging encounters in the entire game.
What I disliked:
  • Most of the open sea content felt unfinished at best and filler at worst. There are entire "islands" that consist of a single small screen with a fight against half a dozen enemies lacking lore and context. They reminded me of a poor man's version of BG1's wilderness areas. The uncharted islands are often the only points-of-interest worth visiting, and once a player realizes this, the open seas of Deadfire seems incredibly content starved.
  • Dungeon design was immensely disappointing, and arguably even a regression compared to the expansion-less POE1. The first real dungeon I encountered (under the Gullet) turned out to be the largest dungeon in the entire game, and even that barely took me an hour to complete. Most dungeons can be finished in under 10 minutes, and there's a conspicuous absence of puzzles. Deadfire's dungeon design on the whole compares poorly to even the tedious Endless Paths from POE1, which speaks volumes of how lacking Deadfire is in this regard.
  • Encounter design suffers because the game's (lack of) difficulty and underpowered enemy abilities do not take into account how powerful the player gets. As a result, even though there are ambushes aplenty, the actual encounters are even less threatening than POE's was at release. Dragon fights and the final boss were absolute pushovers, and I'd wager the default AI scripts would manage just fine without player intervention as well. Comparing these fights to the Adra dragon in POE at release is night and day; the Adra dragon encounter was unforgiving before I realized that the dragon can be paralyzed with some effort, and then there was the horde of lesser enemies one had to deal with as well. If one brings White March's encounter difficulty and design into the picture, the comparison gets even worse for Deadfire. Concelhaut, the monk pain-trains, Llengrath, etc. were an order of magnitude more engaging to fight and defeat than anything in Deadfire.
  • Speaking of enemies, the bestiary felt as if it barely progressed from POE 1 to 2 despite a complete change in the setting and its accompanying climate. Most of the enemies in Deadfire are recycled from POE1, which robs the player of tension on encountering a new enemy type one has not seen before. Despite being a sequel, the bestiary of Deadfire would not be out of place in an expansion to POE1, which is particularly damning.
  • While factions are better implemented compared to POE1, they can't hold a candle to those in New Vegas. Deadfire's factions barely have a handful of quests each, and lack satisfying quest arcs. The 4 main factions are fashioned out of the same template of self-centered groups that require the watcher's help to get ahead at the expense of others. There is nothing particularly thought provoking or morally ambiguous about any of them, and it's to the game's credit that I could finish the game without aligning with any of them.
  • Deadfire's companions are probably a frontrunner for Obsidian's most forgettable companion effort to date. They are simple one dimensional characters, with a short companion quest and barely any worthwhile content besides. There's nothing in the game that comes close to Durance's explosive conversations from POE1 or Boone's haunting companion quest from New Vegas.
  • The Main quest was absurdly short and lacking in content. I'd wager Deadfire's critical path is 60-90 minutes of content stretched over a game that can last dozens of hours. As flawed as POE1's main quest was, it at least had some semblance of a narrative arc that was built up gradually. Deadfire's narrative arc is as unsatisfying as it is abrupt.
  • If there is ever another Pillars game, I'd be happy if it had nothing to do with those Gods and their origins because they've been the focus of the narrative two games in a row and the narratives have been lackluster both times. Deadfire might have had a more satisfying main narrative arc if it were entirely about dealing with the day to day workings of factions and their conflicts, as New Vegas did, instead of being diluted by the Gods of Eora and their bullshit.

Overall I hoped the game would be a New Vegas-esque Pillars game, but given the exodus of writing talent at Obsidian, Deadfire unsurprisingly fell well short of those expectations. The onus then was on Deadfire's gameplay improvements to make up for this writing decline. As much as I enjoy some of the core system changes, it's hard to recommend the game in its current state since there is no challenge to put those core system improvements to good use without intentionally crippling one's party. Hopefully this will change and Deadfire will see a patch cycle similar to POE1.
 
Last edited:

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,124
Okay, so if anyone was wondering if a party with zero healers will help with difficulty - it does, but not nearly enough to make it worth your while on a 2nd playthrough. If you're you're on your first playthrough it might be worth a shot.

For people who already beaten the game and look to do another run - don't bother, it's a waste of your time.

I went with Geomancer (me), Swashbuckler (Eder), Chanter (Tekehu), Brute (Rekke) and Mindstalker (Ydwin). And I'm running fully geared with Master/Legendary stuff and beating the red skull mobs by level 9.

Thank you and good night.
 

Sizzle

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
2,471
Nryn Agree with most everything you said, except the dungeon design.

I would rather have short, SoZ-like dungeons, that have traps, puzzles, and are mostly trash mob-free, than the ones from PoE1, which, while longer, don't stand out in any way.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,955
Location
Russia
Okay, so if anyone was wondering if a party with zero healers will help with difficulty - it does, but not nearly enough to make it worth your while on a 2nd playthrough. If you're you're on your first playthrough it might be worth a shot.

For people who already beaten the game and look to do another run - don't bother, it's a waste of your time.

I went with Geomancer (me), Swashbuckler (Eder), Chanter (Tekehu), Brute (Rekke) and Mindstalker (Ydwin). And I'm running fully geared with Master/Legendary stuff and beating the red skull mobs by level 9.

Thank you and good night.
But eh, first ~8 levels are fun...
 

Matticus

Educated
Joined
May 17, 2018
Messages
82
Was unable to finish PoE2 due to a bug that prevents loading most of my saves (Error Loading Next Map). Something to do with a nullptr in TalkingItemManager:: PostLoad. I knew I shouldn't have picked up that talking sword. On the bright side, I'm now inspired to look for other games with D&D inspired game mechanics, or replay one of the old games I haven't touched in 10+ years. Why does it seem there are so few modern games in this genre? Have I just not been paying attention?
 

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,124
Also, cool bit of reactivity from the first game:

I selected a history where Devil of Caroc died, and her construct armor was available in one of the shops. And it's actually the best heavy armor in the game. Pretty cool.
 
Possibly Retarded The Real Fanboy
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
1,114
Location
Ancient Aliens Spaceship
Another thing that stuck out to me - the Steward of Caed Nua.

I was almost certain she was going to have a bigger role. My bet was on her being a part of the ship - probably as a figurehead. That would have nicely tied the old stronghold with your new one. But she doesn't have any function at all. At least in the first one, she would occasionally alert you to tasks you should undertake, and announce visitors to the keep. I'm also not a fan of the new voice - her original, older-sounding one fit her much better.

It could be that she had a bigger part to play in an older draft of the story, but her presence in the game as it is now is just superfluous. Maybe this will change in the DLCs, but currently, it's yet another missed opportunity.

I assume she was meant to be yet another romance, but they spent too much time on the sword.

Im actually romancing her, and already rebuild her stone butt to make some BIOWARE like progress.:fallout3:Damn stone is so cold.
 

boobio

Arcane
Trigger Warning Shitposter
Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
555
Door opening narration:

Ideal:
>You twist the handle and push the door open.

PoE2:
>You reach for the shiny silver doorknob and pause for a moment, catching a glimpse your own warped reflection in it. You are reminded of seeing doorknobs as a child, being much too short to reach and open them yourself.... Things certainly have changed. Taking a deep breath and snapping back to reality, you grab the doorknob while taking note of the aromas of mahogany and old carpeting swirling all around you. As you twist the knob and start to push the door open, the entirety of the Gettysburg Address finds its way to the forefront of your consciousness and you recite you the entire thing out loud to yourself.... "Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this. But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate - we can not consecrate - we can not hallow - this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us - that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that dsdhaj hdkjahdkahdkjhakjhd adhjahd jkahdsk
:drink:
 
Possibly Retarded The Real Fanboy
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
1,114
Location
Ancient Aliens Spaceship
Door opening narration:

Ideal:
>You twist the handle and push the door open.

PoE2:
>You reach for the shiny silver doorknob and pause for a moment, catching a glimpse your own warped reflection in it. You are reminded of seeing doorknobs as a child, being much too short to reach and open them yourself.... Things certainly have changed. Taking a deep breath and snapping back to reality, you grab the doorknob while taking note of the aromas of mahogany and old carpeting swirling all around you. As you twist the knob and start to push the door open, the entirety of the Gettysburg Address finds its way to the forefront of your consciousness and you recite you the entire thing out loud to yourself.... "Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this. But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate - we can not consecrate - we can not hallow - this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us - that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that dsdhaj hdkjahdkahdkjhakjhd adhjahd jkahdsk
:drink:

Are You Jew?
 

boobio

Arcane
Trigger Warning Shitposter
Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
555
Door opening narration:

Ideal:
>You twist the handle and push the door open.

PoE2:
>You reach for the shiny silver doorknob and pause for a moment, catching a glimpse your own warped reflection in it. You are reminded of seeing doorknobs as a child, being much too short to reach and open them yourself.... Things certainly have changed. Taking a deep breath and snapping back to reality, you grab the doorknob while taking note of the aromas of mahogany and old carpeting swirling all around you. As you twist the knob and start to push the door open, the entirety of the Gettysburg Address finds its way to the forefront of your consciousness and you recite you the entire thing out loud to yourself.... "Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this. But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate - we can not consecrate - we can not hallow - this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us - that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that dsdhaj hdkjahdkahdkjhakjhd adhjahd jkahdsk
:drink:

Are You Jew?

Are Jew?
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,087
Location
Bulgaria
So this assassin in Delver's Row, has anyone hired him ?
Can he be used for the vendetta quest ? For rauatai last quest before El Dorado ?
Who are his potential targets ?
I haven't but i assume that his target would be the merchant that wants you to kill the spider creature.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,087
Location
Bulgaria
If you reveal to ''Bardata'' that the Valeras are indeed ploting against her (heist or else), this will prevent any kind of negociations.
If you want them to make peace, you need to work on that directly after the dual between the two sons.
Not really,i managed to finish both quests. Instead of accepting the "Clear my vault from thieves" quest got the meeting quest. You just have to propose that she make peace after the waterfall quest,then talk to the nigger about peace,complete the their side quests and in the end instead of accepting the vault quest tell her that he agrees to a meeting.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,087
Location
Bulgaria
Brutal sodomization is so old-school. Subject yourself to a few rounds of ball-busting CBT, urethral electro sounding and bukkake with your local dom. I bet Obsidian didn't put that in their game. Why so coy, Obs? Not progressive enough?
Ouch,the dark side of Lacrymas is spilling out. That is some specialised terminology there babe :) .
 

Kyl Von Kull

The Night Tripper
Patron
Joined
Jun 15, 2017
Messages
3,152
Location
Jamrock District
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Brutal sodomization is so old-school. Subject yourself to a few rounds of ball-busting CBT, urethral electro sounding and bukkake with your local dom. I bet Obsidian didn't put that in their game. Why so coy, Obs? Not progressive enough?
Ouch,the dark side of Lacrymas is spilling out. That is some specialised terminology there babe :) .

Who says this stuff isn’t in the game? I wouldn’t rule it out.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,087
Location
Bulgaria
Brutal sodomization is so old-school. Subject yourself to a few rounds of ball-busting CBT, urethral electro sounding and bukkake with your local dom. I bet Obsidian didn't put that in their game. Why so coy, Obs? Not progressive enough?
Ouch,the dark side of Lacrymas is spilling out. That is some specialised terminology there babe :) .

Who says this stuff isn’t in the game? I wouldn’t rule it out.
I have finished the game a week ago :). The closest thing to it is a bath house with a few faggots nude people.....also there was a dominatrix prostitute in one of the pubs.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
Door opening narration:

Ideal:
>You twist the handle and push the door open.

PoE2:
>You reach for the shiny silver doorknob and pause for a moment, catching a glimpse your own warped reflection in it. You are reminded of seeing doorknobs as a child, being much too short to reach and open them yourself.... Things certainly have changed. Taking a deep breath and snapping back to reality, you grab the doorknob while taking note of the aromas of mahogany and old carpeting swirling all around you. As you twist the knob and start to push the door open, the entirety of the Gettysburg Address finds its way to the forefront of your consciousness and you recite you the entire thing out loud to yourself.... "Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this. But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate - we can not consecrate - we can not hallow - this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us - that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that dsdhaj hdkjahdkahdkjhakjhd adhjahd jkahdsk
:drink:

Yes, although your writing is more interesting content-wise than nu-Obsidian's.
 

Malpercio

Arcane
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Messages
1,534
Credits are rolling after 60 something hours, and I think Deadfire is a bit of a missed opportunity due to how uneven its content is. It overcame a sluggish start and seemed incredibly promising when I got to Fort Deadlight and then Nekataka. The game's cracks became easier to notice and harder to ignore the longer I played, preventing it from being the BG1 -> BG2 jump I hoped it would be. Spoiler-free thoughts on the game as a whole:

What I liked:
  • Itemization is one of the best in recent memory, with most unique items having unique enchants that reinforce the item's strengths and weaknesses. Deadfire's approach to itemization serves as a great counterpoint to Larian's abject itemization in D:OS2 where the Diabloesque "item fever" approach devalued unique and legendary items as item levels were the only criteria that really mattered, and thus, items needed constant replacing. In contrast, I found a Sabre in Deadfire's first real dungeon that was irreplaceable even at end game due to its unique abilities and enchants.
It's decent (Especially compared to recent shit like DOS2 or Witcher), but I find myself thinking there are too many similar weapons/armors. It would be like if BG2 had 5 different versions of the Celestial Fury.


There are a lot of times in which I went "Which one is better? Does it even matter?". Or maybe it's just because I find the rule-set over-designed.
 

Mazisky

Magister
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
2,082
Location
Rome, IT
Finally finished!

Completed all side quests, 52 h.

Basically around 50 h is the whole content. With the 3 dlcs i guess we'll gain other 20 h for 70 total.
 
Developer
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
460
Location
Moblin Villige
Eh don't shit your pants yet. Torment was a "disaster". Tyranny did better and was merely a "disappointment". Before its first weekend this game already has more concurrent players than Tyranny ever had.

If it does somewhat worse than the first game then eh, so be it. Baldur's Gate 2 never got a sequel either, maybe it was meant to be.

I think this is what you're saying, but the reason BG2 didn't get an immediate sequel wasn't due to sales, it was more b/c BioWare was sick with dealing with Black Isle and Interplay by that point (and maybe Atari, too).

I'm sure both Black Isle and Iplay wanted another BG3, but I don't think BioWare wanted to do a 3rd game with them (although they did finish off the series with ToB, and did let Black Isle continue to license the Infinity Engine).

Apparently, even the negotiations for BG2 were pretty... strained, but BioWare was in a position to negotiate better terms, so they did for BG2, but I don't know if they needed Black Isle/Interplay anymore (or the D&D franchise) to go off and do RPGs on their own and make their own ip.

Also, I think BioWare wasn't happy when Black Isle did Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance (I don't get the impression BioWare were consulted about the name or the game at all, it was a surprise to them). While BioWare didn't own "BG," they were still tied pretty heavily to the name, and they had some concerns Dark Alliance could hurt the brand. BIS did have the rights to use BG, however.

I don't think that was the cause of the split, however, it was just more evidence of the cracks appearing in Interplay and Black Isle - the cancellation of Torn and the resultant layoffs didn't help, either.
 

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