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Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,442
Regarding the difficulty touch-up, I think the fact that we have only heard Josh mention it once in a stream, and him not wanting to commit on a rough point in time when it may be ready, means that they haven't even tried to estimate how much work it will be yet. It must be just something he knows he will get to, when other issues are cleared. I doubt it will be more people than him and 2-3 other designers going through all the encounters in the whole game. I imagine the rebalance will arrive around September with the first DLC. But yeah, it's just a speculation.

You were digging in the files a bit, how does level scaling work?
Do the enemies get appropriate abilities or just the per level defenses+accuracy? Just giving them the same stuff you have at higher levels would likely be enough to fix stuff, before any time consuming encounter redesigning.
It does look like Josh gave the team more freedom to express their creativity than in previous projects.

Turned out well, eh?
Step 3: Bargaining

"Why yes, everyone is to blame except for Josh 'master game designer extraordinaire' Sawyer."
You think if the Master Of Balance had full control he would have allowed 90% of the unique weapons to be swords?
Sawyer spent years talking about the importance of proper tuning and balancing to ensure a consistent level of challenge throughout. He then made PoE, an RPG where you can't even make it halfway through before hitting the level cap.

Sawyer spent years condemning RPG romances as masturbatory fantasies. Then, when taking on the role of narrative lead, he brought us Deadfire's romances, surpassing even Dragon Age 2 in the amount of player-sexual romances.

What Sawyer says rarely lines up with what he actually implements in his games, even when given full control.

He whined specifically that great swords/sabers being overabundant was the result of backer designed items, he was fuming while speaking about it, promised the DLCs will bring in diversity.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,966
Location
Russia
Played a bit, patched, PoTD, all level scaling on, no priest, me druid/fury (little evil orlan bandit girl) so no heals on druid. This is quite recommended setup for having more fun. I even use potions.

Ambushed eothasian caravan and slaughtered everyone. Eder ignored this. Eh.
 
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Kaivokz

Arcane
Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
1,504
Tekehu is pleased by some weird stuff.
oQ2Tfsz.jpg
 
Self-Ejected

MajorMace

Self-Ejected
Patron
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Souffrance, Franka
Ambushed eothasian caravan and slaugheter everyone. Eder ignored dis. Eh.
Oh I remember that shit.
I can't believe they let it that way. It's like, Edér is your only potential companion here. This is the very first world map CYOA sequence, supposed to showcase these little scenes to the player.
If the player is at least a minimum curious, he'll see that Edér is not only "pro-eothasian" but also "anti-anti-eothasian" or some shit.
It's truely baffling. At least put reactivity here, and pretend that it's how it's gonna work for the rest of the game. It was a super obvious occasion to do that.
I suspect their design philosophy is "let's not hurt the player's freedom of choice with nonsense like consistency or this companion system we introduced. And promoted."
What the fuck.
 
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Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,000
Pathfinder: Wrath
I don't think there is anything wrong with hitting level cap mid-way.

It's only bad if you've been feeling overpowered since level 10 and you keep getting more and more op. If you've been running with a full party all the way through, BG1 lets you hit level cap at very-late-game, I usually hit it in the lower levels of Durlag's Tower. That is also a solution. High level challenges are good and can get very creative due to the diversity of tools at your disposal. PoE1 didn't do this, however, with very few exceptions. Deadfire also doesn't. Where's the balance, Sawyer?
 

Vityaz

Augur
Joined
Oct 7, 2014
Messages
169
Played a bit, patched, PoTD, all level scaling on, no priest, me druid/fury (little evil orlan bandit girl) so no heals on druid. This is quite recommended setup for having more fun. I even use potions.

Ambushed eothasian caravan and slaughtered everyone. Eder ignored this. Eh.

Strange. In my game he immediatelly started bitching at me and doubting his decision to follow me. :?

(it was the "went back to Aedyr" Edér tho)
 

2house2fly

Magister
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
1,877
I hit the level cap a lot later than other people seemed to, but then I saved bounties and Caed Nua for endgame so I'd have plenty of soulbound fodder. The bounties especially shower you with an insane amount of xp
 

Malpercio

Arcane
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Messages
1,534
Who's alt are you, and why are you so butthurt?
Better butthurt than hurr durr ninjas :lol:
Show me on this Sawyer's doll where I touched you.

It does look like Josh gave the team more freedom to express their creativity than in previous projects.

Turned out well, eh?
Step 3: Bargaining

"Why yes, everyone is to blame except for Josh 'master game designer extraordinaire' Sawyer."
You think if the Master Of Balance had full control he would have allowed 90% of the unique weapons to be swords?

Honestly, for all the balance memes PoE2's balance is kinda all over the place.

So this assassin in Delver's Row, has anyone hired him ?
Can he be used for the vendetta quest ? For rauatai last quest before El Dorado ?
Who are his potential targets ?
I think you can only use him for the quest down there? I killed him, he has a pretty sweet stiletto and an epik chase sequence (Which... bugged out for me, so I ended up killing him before I started the scripted chase sequence)
 
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AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
You were digging in the files a bit, how does level scaling work?
Do the enemies get appropriate abilities or just the per level defenses+accuracy? Just giving them the same stuff you have at higher levels would likely be enough to fix stuff, before any time consuming encounter redesigning.
It's two properties, specified in an object which defines a CharacterStats - MinLevelAdjustment, and MaxLevelAdjustment. In the same object, there is a property called BaseClassLevel which takes a number.

Aside from CharacterStats objects, all "characters" in the game also have a BaseStats objects. The BaseStats object for a creature contains its, I guess, starting (at BaseClassLevel) defenses, its starting Accuracy for Melee and Ranged (these can be made to be different), its starting HP and its HP per level.

Each ability has a MinCharacterLevel and MinPowerLevel requirements, two properties of type Number.

That's the data we can see, but how is it used by the game? I guess when you load the game it will adjust their level according to yours if you have scaling enabled, and will scale down or up their defenses, accuracy, HP, and Power level. Since possible abilities are determined by power level, new abilities should be unlocked, or locked out when the power level is adjusted, according to the MinLevelAdjustment/MaxLevelAdjustment.

So, the short answer is, I'm pretty certain upscaled enemies will use higher level abilities. It's also highly likely that AI scripts are tied to level - would make sense, given that there is some info on AI in the gamedatabundle files, and that creatures gain new abilities with level. Until Obsidian release documentation (provided they ever do it) we'll have to ask them to confirm.
 

Sizzle

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
2,471

Reinhardt

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
29,613
Arkemyr should really do something about his security system on ng+. Grand Heist on lvl 5 was complete success. Used one consumable to bust Ydwin mechanics in vault itself but otherwise his shop and manor is just free loot.
 

Ohmsquare

Novice
Joined
Aug 18, 2014
Messages
18
That's the data we can see, but how is it used by the game? I guess when you load the game it will adjust their level according to yours if you have scaling enabled, and will scale down or up their defenses, accuracy, HP, and Power level. Since possible abilities are determined by power level, new abilities should be unlocked, or locked out when the power level is adjusted, according to the MinLevelAdjustment/MaxLevelAdjustment.

So, the short answer is, I'm pretty certain upscaled enemies will use higher level abilities. It's also highly likely that AI scripts are tied to level - would make sense, given that there is some info on AI in the gamedatabundle files, and that creatures gain new abilities with level. Until Obsidian release documentation (provided they ever do it) we'll have to ask them to confirm.

I've created a level scaling mod and while testing it I noticed that a same creature would get different bonus levels when spawned at different locations. The only logical explanation I have is that the amount of bonus levels enemy gets above its base level depends on the difference between the current player's level and the current location level (where the creature is spawned) rather than on the difference between the player's level and the enemy's base level.

Link to the mod: https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/24
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,966
Location
Russia
Arkemyr should really do something about his security system on ng+. Grand Heist on lvl 5 was complete success. Used one consumable to bust Ydwin mechanics in vault itself but otherwise his shop and manor is just free loot.
I never found it any difficult during first playthrough either. Everything about it was very obvious, you can just pick the front door lol.
 

Gay-Lussac

Arcane
Joined
Nov 24, 2007
Messages
7,563
Location
Your mom
Well I gave up on replaying it after 25 hours in. Now that I know how to juice up the party the difficulty is laughable even on PoTD.
Go and fight the vamps on the undead island then. In your first playtrough you miss them.

Yeah I still have a couple of locations I didn't explore, but it would just be a bore with shitty combat.

I'm thinking about trying a non-priest party, or maybe a non-healer party altogether. That might make the game enough of a challenge until the patches hopefully beef up the difficulty.

I'd just wait for at least the first balance pass, or you'll burn yourself out when you go play the "full game".
 

Pizzashoes

Scholar
Joined
Oct 31, 2017
Messages
444
Maybe the DLCs will be epic level romps with culminating fights as difficult as Twisted Rune in BG2.

I like the idea of characters reaching their ability peak (max level) while still having to fight progressively tougher encounters. Some characters might not even be able to reach epic levels, just because they don't have the potential.
 

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,172
Anyway, having played maybe half of 2nd playthrough, a lot of quests have nicely open-ended design. Arkermyr's mansion can be approached in like 7 different ways, the same goes for family feud quest and many of the others. It's not just side with these guys or with other guys, there's variables within the quest chains themselves.
 

Sherry

Arcane
Joined
Jan 17, 2017
Messages
404
Location
Shrine of Compassion
Excellent story, Sherry. For myself, my character is Promethea, a female elven wizard who hails from Rauatai. She thirsts insatiably for knowledge (I found that this character trait dovetailed nicely with the first game's theme of the quest for knowledge invariably being frustrated) and I make a point of always selecting the dialogue option that is a question if one is available. She is more interested in the acquisition of knowledge than its dissemination, so at the end of the game she considers herself privileged to have the extremely rare knowledge of the true nature of the Gods, and felt no need to share it with anyone. In the first game she became close friends with Zahua, whose quest for enlightment via suffering mirrored her own suffering on the path to her own enlightenment. In the five years between games she studied the ways of the Nalpazca and is now closer to enlightment than ever thanks to her constant use of various drugs. I am maybe halfway through the game, judging by the play times given by other players who have completed the adventure, and I don't know yet what the Deadfire has in store for Promethea, but I know that even if a piece of her soul had not been stolen, and even had she not being charged by the gods with hunting down Eothas, she would be questing to find him all the same, for one simple reason: he is something she does not know.

Ado!

Nice to meet you 2house2fly you are always welcome aboard! :salute: It is very important to me too having a good character background to maintain a role-playing standard throughout the game and with dying and being brought back to life Cipher seemed to fit that multiclass option where before I thought using Druid as the multiclass-class would do. After going through that intro when it came time to recreate my character Cipher won out over Druid. And gosh is a Witch lots of fun to play. Let me introduce you to Orange Windrippler! okay? Okay! :hug:

Level 5 Witch
Boreal Dwarf
The White that Wends - Explorer
Barbarian (Corpse-Eater)
Cipher (Soul Blade)

Might 15 (+15% Damage and Healing, +10 Fortitude)
Constitution 11 (+5 Health, +2 Fortitude)
Dexterity 12 (+6 Action Speed and +4 Reflex)
Perception 11 (+1 Accuracy, and +2 Reflex)
Intellect 21 (+110% Area of Effect, +55% Ability Duration, and +22 Will)
Resolve 11 (-3% Hostile Effect Duration, +1 Deflection, and +2 Will)

Her base damage is +15% from her might because she is tough from The White That Wends along with her new Cipher ability Biting Whip, grants +30% damage along with an additional +15 damage from two-handed specialization and her Barbarian ability Carnage offer 33% of Base Weapon Damage in a nice 110% Area of Effect from her intelligence! Her two weapons of choice is dual-wielding wands for range combat when she needs to eat to heal from her Corpse Eater subclass otherwise sticks with her two-handed pike to support the line with massive damage and critical strikes so she can continue to feast in battle to heal herself.

So with all the experience I have from playing Pillars of Eternity to play DEADFIRE I picked expert mode veteran because in Pillars I opted not to see the choices in dialog I was missing out on and instead role-played only the options available so that is what I am doing this time around again because it just feels a lot more natural to play the game this way and veteran is for veterans of this type of game so if you are not familiar with these sort of role-playing games it is okay if you pick something that is not going to be so tough on you or unforgiving right?

There are lots of fun dialog choices that Orange makes use of too so things have gone very well for her since being brought back to life. I take screens too during the story so I can share a few here with you from the beginning of the game but they will be put in those spoiler tags because I do not want to spoil any of the fun for anyone else who has not started yet.

gosh this response was so perfect upon waking back in my body and Orange whispered it just loud enough for that Benweth to hear!

AHuQGDJ.jpg



And I lied with this because Orange did not like what they were doing to the Adra and did not want Clario to continue the research.

MQyU8tB.jpg


But even with all the fun and exploring available this still bothers me sooooooooo much because if you look at my Pillars choices not once did Orange ever, ever hurt a dragon but instead always helped them so this is p. bad to read this so pretty upsetting I just hope in my future a dragon does not swoop down and block my path claiming I killed its sister in Pillars and then forces me to fight the dragon when I am an ally to dragons and never hurt one of them in Pillars.

acIBbMs.jpg



And Sherry the boat!!!! :eek: :D

15Xec1B.jpg



This weekend sometime in the evenings Orange will be set to explore Neketaka! Very excited.

76pAZdZ.jpg

Okay that is all :salute: and played an extra 7 hours today too which puts me at 30hrs of playing at Level 5 (Restarted and got Orange back to Neketaka for the weekend session) so thank-you for sharing your story about Promethea she sounds well thought of for a long role-playing session.

Agracima,
Sherry
 

ScrotumBroth

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
1,292
Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In
Anyway, having played maybe half of 2nd playthrough, a lot of quests have nicely open-ended design. Arkermyr's mansion can be approached in like 7 different ways, the same goes for family feud quest and many of the others. It's not just side with these guys or with other guys, there's variables within the quest chains themselves.

Yeah, pity the "secret" underground access is so easily available, and without any warning, but yeah, the game really rewards stealth approach, for those who like to scout ahead and find holes in security.
 

Pizzashoes

Scholar
Joined
Oct 31, 2017
Messages
444
A 21 intelligence is about six higher than the 99th percentile for dwarves. Jesus Christ, how could anyone make such a Mary Sue? Are you roleplaying as Sherry while playing this video game?
 

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