Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[FreeKaner]

I think 3-4 abilities is in the range of not too many but it's more than I used, I used 2 plus modals. Especially when we consider at similar levels casters have more than double that and Wizards even more. We disagree on that I guess, I also didn't mind using self-buffs but I like them as gameplay elements. Maybe because first games I played were RTSs and I did play a lot of dota I just have different tolerance.

I do agree with the general premise though, we disagree on the amount.

 

[Xeon]

I hope they don't bloat the HP just to try and make the fights challenging that feels kinda cheesy or something (not sure if that's the right word to use). HP bloat will probably make things take longer to kill instead of providing a challenge.

Will be better to add a higher type of enemies or mix of various enemies to make a challenge.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I think 3-4 abilities is in the range of not too many but it's more than I used, I used 2 plus modals. Especially when we consider at similar levels casters have more than double that and Wizards even more. We disagree on that I guess, I also didn't mind using self-buffs but I like them as gameplay elements. Maybe because first games I played were RTSs and I did play a lot of dota I just have different tolerance.

I do agree with the general premise though, we disagree on the amount.

Yes, my understanding for a non-caster class is someone that will use grapple or knockdown, or something like that 2-3 times per day*. Now that's when I would have to start considering when and where to use those abilities. 3-4 different abilities each of which I can use for a maximum of 6-7 times, in every encounter, feels like too much for a "non-caster" class.

* - I am someone who is able to use per-rest abilities without complaining of what's really my own actions - rest-spamming. I believe self imposed rest restrictions improve the game.

 

[Grotesque]

the stats for Pillars 1

you still think that the rumors that it sold poorly are still fake?

 

[Shadenuat]

People feel Irenicus is better as a villain because he is much more active through the game and the bond between him and the player are stronger because he stole something from the player, so the player feels pissed off as the player vanity is offended by him right from the start with you being on a cage as an animal and Irenicus treating you like a little insignificant thing later. Thaos bond with the player character is weak

Yeah cause gamez are interactive medium, who would have guessed, and it matters more what villain does than what is written about him, anywhere.

 

[MajorMace]

Don't see what sort of interactivity you talk about. Irenicus regularly comes up during BGII but you never interact with him.

 

[Shadenuat]

What is it about the music that people don't like? I really love it.

What music?

That's the thing. I only remembered bunch of tavern music. Plus music is as glitchy as other sound effects. Combat music sucks, plain and simple. The one catchy main theme part with drums and flutes I heard, I heard it only on youtube cause it wasn't in the game.

Don't see what sort of interactivity you talk about. Irenicus regularly comes up during BGII but you never interact with him.

You talk to him, and you fight him 3 times. Sure it's not ability to just kill him outright like characters in Deus Ex, but then game wouldn't have worked.

 

[FreeKaner]

I hope they don't bloat the HP just to try and make the fights challenging that feels kinda cheesy or something (not sure if that's the right word to use). HP bloat will probably make things take longer to kill instead of providing a challenge.

Will be better to add a higher type of enemies or mix of various enemies to make a challenge.

The combat ends too fast, things die too fast. I understand that generally people are reluctant to bloat HP because of how developers use that as a clutch for difficulty and balance but as it stands everything dies too fast in this game. When you are oneshotting a dragon with an empowered ability you do need to increase its HP. I also think that in a RTwP enemies having more HP tends to make things less chaotic. You can add as many enemies, mix and match of abilities or whatever when you are all oneshotting them that you can't even utilise most of the game's complexity you need to say hey maybe the enemies need to be a bit more sturdy.

I say that this as a person that normally enjoys fast and decisive combat, in RPGs and other games.

 

[Keith Brown]

Owners: 50,000 .. 100,000

http://steamspy.com/app/560130

How does this happen? Correcting for inaccurate previous numbers? Refunds?

It happened because Steamspy is broken since the change to steams privacy settings.

Steamspy dev just changed something about the algorithm so it changed the estimate. Deadfire isn't the only game that just suddenly dipped. Steamspy is basically being remade from scratch and means nothing right now.

 

[FreeKaner]

Yes, my understanding for a non-caster class is someone that will use grapple or knockdown, or something like that 2-3 times per day*. Now that's when I would have to start considering when and where to use those abilities. 3-4 different abilities each of which I can use for a maximum of 6-7 times, in every encounter, feels like too much for a "non-caster" class.

* - I am someone who is able to use per-rest abilities without complaining of what's really my own actions - rest-spamming. I believe self imposed rest restrictions improve the game.

I think they need to reduce ability points per combat across the board. Between that and empower you aren't really running out.

 

[AwesomeButton]

the stats for Pillars 1

you still think that the rumors that it sold poorly are still fake?

"Rumors" Is this like "I heard a couple of girls on the subway discussing..." ?

PoE is somewhere slightly above 1 million just on steam.

 

[MajorMace]

You talk to him and fight him once at spellhold. For the sole purpose of unlocking a cool bhaal ability.
Everything else regarding irenicus are uninteractive cutscenes before the final fight (count it twice if you want).

 

[Frusciante]

Owners: 50,000 .. 100,000

http://steamspy.com/app/560130

This is very very depressing. Could be the death of these kinds of rpgs (again)....

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Ultimately my main problem with PoE2 is that every questline felt so incredibly short. I just did a google search for Fallout New Vegas faction quests and:

Brotherhood of Steel, a minor faction, has 5 quests;
Followers of the Apocalypse, a minor faction, have 6 quests;
Great Khans, a minor faction, have 5 quests;
Boomers, a minor faction, have 4 quests;
Caesar's Legion, a major faction, has 20 quests;
Yes Man, a major faction, has 8 quests;
Mr. House, a major faction, has 13 quests;
NCR, a major faction, has 42 quests.

Any quest where you can side with faction X is counted towards faction X's quest count (this doesn't always mean that there's a choice in which faction's side to take).

In terms of areas:
Primm has 7 quests;
Novac has 9 quests;
Goodsrpings has 11 quests.

In terms of main questline:
Caesar's Legion run has 4 quests;
Yes Man run has 7 quests;
Mr. House run has 9 quests;
NCR run has 5 quests;
This is not including the 2 introductory quests (They Went That-a-Way & Ring-a-Ding-Ding)

F:NV's shortest questline is 5 quests. My memory may be getting hazy, or maybe my game was bugged out, but I think the longest questline I saw in PoE2 was the main quest. Upon checking, it has 7 quests, this counting the introductory one.

The faction questlines for PoE2:
5 for the Principi;
6 for Royal Deadfire Company;
7 for Vailian Republics.

I felt PoE2 had tons of sidequests that were left hanging. I keep moaning about this but it really is the most disappointing aspect of the game. Arkemyr's quest is the most damning example of this.

FNV had 18 months in development with a ready-to-go engine. PoE2 spent, let's be generous, 1 year in engine development work. That leaves 2 years for game development. What happened? Where did the quests go?

I think that more people worked on F:NV than on PoE II. You should count manworking months not just months spend in the development.

 

[fantadomat]

Oh for christ's sake fantadumdum I have no doubt you blazed through everything in 30h dude. It's the claim that it's a legit average hour count that I can only observe as grotesque, if only because I skip most prose and cyoa reading, don't chase ships and bounties and I'm still 15h above that.

Considering the sorry state of the difficulty, the ruthless efficiency of the AI and the ship combat, I have no difficulty imagining how you did it as well.

If people don't believe you despite solid proof, they're just plain deluded and beyond help.

I never said that this the average time for the game,for rpgs it is really hard to pinpoint the average time to finish. I claim that the content is not much and it is around 20 hours IF it was more concentrated and there wasn't that much of pointless running around.

I think that the average is around 40-50 hours of gameplay!

 

[Shadenuat]

But I do laugh at people praising BG2 for the writing. That's like claiming you read Penthouse for the hard-hitting journalism. Not the fucking point, bro.

If D&D action-comedy writing is enough for a D&D action-comedy game, then there is no reason to shit on it's writing. Also, it's not just herp derp jansen. Keldorn, for example, always struck me as a pretty solid character. Voice acting did a lot to improve the lines and make them sound better than what they may be. And then there's interactivity - name me 1 character in PoE, that was written solely to betray you in the end and die. Or characters who actively fight each other because of the differences in their beliefs. I concider this part of the writing.

 

[fantadomat]

Yeah,i am stupid,said the guy that got wiped by imps on the easiest rpg ever made. Even the steam retards are whining that the game is too easy. Learn to rpg,and stop whining about where you got wiped.

Did you, who played the game on classic (or story mode, I don't recall), just "git gud" somebody who played on POTD?

What's up with everyone who played on classic (or below) difficulty feeling like they have any authority to judge the combat? It's mind boggling.

Do you have a video that proves that you didn't play on story?!

Don't know from where is coming that "fact" that i am playing on story?

 

[Shadenuat]

why the fuck would you ever consider enabling any form of level scalung

Because the roleplaying system works in a way that having AT LEAST 1 level more over your enemy = already easy win.

Also, there are NEARLY not enough high level monsters in this game than there should be, you gain levels too fast, and monsters which should be high level are just not high level or powerful enough (there should be more vampire islands, less retard natives and level 6-14 enemies everywhere compared to how fast you can gain levels and superb+ equipment).

 

[Shadenuat]

I disagree. Those mini-dungeons are perfect for this type of game. If they were bigger the game would drag just like the first one.

I would much rather have a greater number of 1-2 level dungeons, than a small number of 10-level dungeons.

I think the balance is out of whack here. There is basically 1 (one) "real deep" dungeon, and everything else is very small, and lacks any sort of ecosystem.

Nobody has mentioned is how much cooler the magic looks in Deadfire.

I pretty much stated outright in the beginning of the thread that effects are light years ahead of first game. Although some of them still require work (for example, all frost AoEs kinda look the same in many ways, and their animations happen so fast you don't have time to appreciate/react).

As for magic system itself and how fun are spells, I'm afraid you're wrong. Many of the spells still feel lacklustre. Just compare priest spells like "blindness and some damage" to ToB epic spells. PoE spells are mostly about picking the least useless of the bunch - which is very strange since modders for Revisions, for example, shown how can it be done to make every spell count. There was nothing stopping Sawyer at making Parasitic staff scale better somehow. And magic play, it still doesn't really exist. It's too simple and even on PoTD can be simply ignored.

Also, the grimoire system sucks, the amount of spells you get to play with is quite low (a few picks get you all the best spells, so for my casters I picked ~5 passives during endgame because, well, why do I need more as I can't cast more than 1-2 spells anyway? for dual classes you get like 2 spells on a single level so you take just the best ones and that's it), and casting times on many spells are really absurd, you need to have multiple spellcasters to debuff enemy and protect yourself to put same dent into enemy as jumping AOEing barbarian with 2 hander heartoffuring everything into chunks can.

And then there's lack of memorisation (or something that can replace it correctly without player exploiting resting) - every combat, you just spam some good level 7+ spell later (like I did with Chaotic Orb), and then voila, next combat you can spam it again, no extra resources required.

 

[MajorMace]

Regardless of ressources spent, deadfire does feel unfinished towards the end.
Port Maje, Tikawara and Sayuka (or smthg) have a main/side quest and a handful of little things. The native tribe has absolutely nothing and the side quest there was bugged for me.

It's a pretty big deal. If the latter third of the game feels unfinished, the whole game does. And the observation that content is lacking quickly turns into "the game lacks content".

 

[Prime Junta]

If D&D action-comedy writing is enough for a D&D action-comedy game, then there is no reason to shit on it's writing.

I'm not shitting on the writing in Penthouse either. I'm just not praising it. In both cases, the point of the exercise is something other than the writing.

(Although: the Imoen plot hook is bad enough that it is worth pointing out as something not to do, even in a lighthearted D&D action-comedy game.)

 

[Trash Player]

Neither in PoE1 nor Deadfire from what I have seen so for do fighters need active abilities or are weak. Literally the arguments given here are objectively and observably false.

I can understand at a level when someone says fighters shouldn't be as strong as wizards because magic but when people start talking as if IE fighters are not only better designed but also stronger then it starts getting ridiculous.

Acually, the class design in PoE2 is vastly improved over PoE. No doubt about it. And that is what is so amusing. PoE was terrible in comparison and still, everyone thought it was good. There are problems with PoE2 and no one wants to acknowledge then because of PoE all over again. hopefully by PoE 3 all of the issues will actually be addressed.

I agree with everything else, except PoE3 is not likely to happen.

 

[Riddler]

You talk to him and fight him once at spellhold. For the sole purpose of unlocking a cool bhaal ability.
Everything else regarding irenicus are uninteractive cutscenes before the final fight (count it twice if you want).

The story concerns you and your soul though. Unlike in Deadfire where your soul is tethered to Eothas but otherwise unimportant. The fact that it is your soul and the nature of that soul that Irenicus steals is the central part of the plot.

Irenicus is tied to you and your nature personally, with Eothas you are just dragged along. Being a watcher has little to no impact on anything.

 

[MajorMace]

People were comparing poe1 plot there dude. Also, what does that have to do with the player's interactivity with irenicus ?
Edit: oh I get it. You think I'm defending poe's plot or smthg. I'm not.
Quit reading between the lines all the time, sometimes there's nothing there.

Ps. You could have saved a lot of time by just saying that poe and deadfire's problem is that the PC isn't the protagonist.
Albeit, I could argue the same for bgII.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I think the balance is out of whack here. There is basically 1 (one) "real deep" dungeon, and everything else is very small, and lacks any sort of ecosystem.

Probably yes, I haven't played much yet.