Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[aweigh]

Yeah, that's not a bad idea actually. Turning them into generic abilities is probably way easier.

 

[jf8350143]

Anyhow, finished it. Ended up clocking 47 hours and I didn't bother exploring right-bottom part of the map. I'm assuming that's where those vampires are that you guys talked about, since I didn't run into any vampire gang that was hard to beat.

The finale of main storyline was okay, but nothing special. Beautiful locations on the final maps but I expected a bit more umph

Can't be arsed writing full review, so I'll go with the usual format

+ excellent worldbuilding
+ fantastic art, there's some gorgeous locations out there
+ arguably best itemization in the genre
+ the same goes for Neketaka
+ well thought out lore, much more coherent and consistent compared to PoE1 which felt like random locations lumped
together.
+ I like the structure. Neketaka alone is like 20-25 hours of gameplay, so islands packed with 30 minute dungeons provide nice change of pace
+ deep, complex system and mechanics that are very promising in terms of long term replayability
+nicely done skill checks
+ fuckton of cool CYOA sequences
+ companions are much more lively and interesting
+ much improved encounter design
+ relatively bug free. Other than one CTD at the start I didn't run into anything game breaking.


- music is an insult
- combat difficulty is a joke
- I am not sure if reputation system does anything
- ship combat is as generic and bland as it gets
- in general not enough ship related content
- reactivity seems rather limited compared to how much they talked about it. I'll reassess after 2nd playthrough
- wasted opportunity with shanties
- cut out content is poorly hidden. I get that every game cuts out content, but it's just hard to hide it on an archipelago setting
- writing is solid at best. Once upon the time writing was the main appeal of Obsidian games, but that time is long gone

Overall I'd give it a solid 4/5 with potential for more once patches and DLCs start rolling

Reputation system opens you to some faction related vendors, and some dialogue options, but I think that's it.

I'd prefer to have some longer CYOA sequences, right now all of them feel pretty short.

 

[2house2fly]

What is it about the music that people don't like? I really love it.

It's a bit busy, I'd say there's too much going on at any one time. Combat music seems a bit weirdly paced as well sometimes. Overall I like it though, and got a big grin when I recognised an early track as a piratey version of the Ondra/Moon song from the first game

 

[ScrotumBroth]

Oh, come on, don't be asking for "citations", I don't want to go through that BS again. Aaaall right then, here is the current state of Obsidian. I am warning you that you are never getting these seconds back.









It is really depressing.

If playing on Nightmare difficulty, it's not allowed to interrupt the narrator reading.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Oh hey, I went back to clean rest of the map, I killed Feargus and his journal is longer than the one someone posted here. Seems like the ships are doing their own thing.

 

[Safav Hamon]

I would say consistently low quality but serviceable. Rarely does a character say something that I'll reload to read again..

I'd say the writing is completely mediocre for a videogame, but the worldbuilding is exceptional. Obsidian took a lot of historical and cultural influences and merged them seamlessly into a unique and compelling setting.

I feel this is more important than having a strong narrative or great dialogue, which has never been a core strength of videogames anyways. Even Chris Avellone isn't on the same level as epic fantasy writers like Tolkien, Rothfuss, or Erickson.

 

[Background Character]

Finished it just now, I spend 63 hours waiting for the plot to pick up and really engage me like Mark of the Betrayer did and then the game was over. I feel kinda let down but I remember feeling exactly the same after the end of the first game and after a while the Stockholm syndrome hit in full force and that's how you end up with 7 playthroughs.

The final fight against the megazord guardian FUCKING SUCKED though and no Stockholm syndrome will ever change that. I also found a truckload of bugs (and some dead ends) and not one grimoire I liked.

Will probably play again though, after patches or before the first expasion/dlc/whatever

 

[Prime Junta]

What do you like about Firkraag's stronghold?

The way the encounters use the environment. Starting from having to figure out how to get at the orc archers while under fire. BG2 has many similar “combat puzzles.”

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Yeah so seems like I missed 3-4 non-plot encounters , 2-3 non-plot smaller dungeons and the vampire island in the southt-east corner that has 3-4 locations. So that's probably 3 hours to clear which would bring me to 50 total.

I have idea how one possibly do a legit completionist run in 30 hours given that traveling time alone would be like half of that.

Long story short, it's about as big as the first game.

writing is solid at best. Once upon the time writing was the main appeal of Obsidian games, but that time is long gone

Calling it solid is too kind.

I would say consistently low quality but serviceable. Rarely does a character say something that I'll reload to read again.

Characters on average are better grounded in the universe of the game, and I wouldn't say they feel haphazardly thrown about like in most shit tier rpgs, but they still feel like rpg trope inserts.I don't sense any ambition from their characterization or that of the factions.And the native shit with their Ekera Ekera is just cringe after a time. Only the queen seems intelligent and balances the native customs with the modernity of the setting, without coming off like some noble savage.


And that is when you're not being pestered by the weird, post-modern inanity of your companions.


Eder, aside from his odd mental regression from the first game (lacking the countenance of a war veteran) and the fact that every character seems to be telepathically aware of his farmer background, starts talking about fucking Xoti so loud that dogs started barking within 5 seconds of you meeting her.


Xoti is just an idiot who when she's not whining is giving poorly described explanations of her dreams. She is clearly in her late 20s or older but talks and thinks like a teenager.


Aloth is okay and will occasionally reference the events of the first game which I like. But the minute I start talking to him about past events, he starts discussing daddy issues. Which again, how old is he to have not squared this by now?


Teheku or the Druid manchild is some BDSM enthusiast degenerate (he has referenced this 3-4 times and shown me collar marks) who's constantly agog at mundane things and comments when adults with real goals are talking.


Maia is just an annoying teen snarky bitch whose characterization completely subverts the professional she's introduced as, with some 2000s era gag humor parrot.


Pallegina is also fucking annoying, but I forgive her because in my game I basically ruined her life by having her disobey the ducs. Still she rarely says anything that doesn't make me want to throw her overboard. Not only that but she also has some sob story from her childhood that she has unexplicably now decided to resolve after almost a lifetime of quasi-military service.


Serefan is tolerable, if only because he is a one dimensional pirate played straight. Not only that but he's basically Morte, in that he'll actually say something useful from time to time during a questline.


None of the above bodes well for the future of Obsidian, as most of the above represents the tipping point into the realm of AAA rpgs, where characters are just walking loot bags, quest dispensers, lol so quirky comic relief characters (think Moira from Fallout 3) or one dimensional plot devices.

You say the writing is at best solid and I say it is at best a vestige of F:NV and at worst a sign of things to come if Obsidian doesn't get its shit in gear and reassess their priorities.

Obsidian is not Bethesda. They can't just laugh off their buggy unfinished game while discarding one of their recognized strengths.

Writing is more than just companions, pal.

 

[Prime Junta]

/me catches up

yeah Irenicus is pretty cool

for a comic-book villain for early teens

 

[duanth123]

Writing is more than just companions, pal.

Do you think that my criticism is limited to the companions?

I just got tired of typing.

The quests are often short and uninspired, when not a ripoff of other games. You're telling me Pharos Dereos, a seedy underground crime boss, wants me to obtain a secret something from an dungeon below the city as he conspicuously hides some type of injury related to his request? A dungeon full of undead monsters and refuse?

You're telling me I found a sassy talking sword in the sewers undercity during the same quest line?

And that's the hook for one of the better dungeons.
Or how about the animancer portal quest?

Two rooms and a stairwell, with no real buildup or real dread until one major fight and an interesting conversation with a god?

After which, you're pretty much denied any opportunity to warn off the animancers except through the "clever" response and even then there's no real payoff. Though in fairness I have yet to complete the follow up quest.

Or how about oathbreakers sanctum?

Effectively 3 rooms in which is a 2 minute backstory before you slaughter a roomful of cultists in order to obtain a drunk as a ship crewman.

A beautiful dungeon, extremely short, with writing that serves as zero complement.

Compare that to something like Cult of the Unseeing Eye or the Yuan Ti temple in IWDII. It was a complete waste and yet is repeated throughout the game.

Really, what is "solid" about wasting writing and other resources on a bunch of small, nothing quests when the essence of traditional rpgs, especially the IE games, were large dungeons with buildup and backstories and small side narratives within them, leading up the the final confrontation?

That's why I can't take these comparisons to BG2 seriously. Even if the writings somehow objectively better in POE2, there's nothing to hang it on, nothing memorable to which it is attached.

 

[Trashos]

/me catches up

yeah Irenicus is pretty cool

for a comic-book villain for early teens

I indeed did not expect Irenicus' individualistic ambitions to speak to a communist's soul.

 

[Safav Hamon]

Or how about oathbreakers sanctum?

Effectively 3 rooms in which is a 2 minute backstory before you slaughter a roomful of cultists in order to obtain a drunk as a ship crewman.

A beautiful dungeon, extremely short, with writing that serves as zero complement.

Compare that to something like Dragon's Eye or the yuan ti temple. It was a complete waste and yet is typical throughout the game.

Not every dungeon can be a transcendent metaphysical experience like Icewind Dale

 

[Perkel]

Eh i just switched on PoE1 trying to find if it is worth it to do full replay...

God damn i forgot just how fucking bad PoE1 system was:

Frightened:
-2 to resolve and dexterity
-10 accuracy

for 13 seconds

 

[Ulfhednar]

The best thing about Firkraag is how the game hooks you into following the quest. You need 20k at the start of chapter 2, and he offers you 10k to go down the rabbit hole. Then you kill the paladins and are supposedly on the run from the Radiant Heart, which sets up some urgency to get the quest done right then and there. It's not till then that you realize what you're up against... at least that was how my teenage self saw it.

I didn't have much experience with D&D at the time, so the golems, vamps and the adventuring party put up some serious resistance to my clueless-ness then on critical rules. They're only fodder if you know exactly what to do.

 

[duanth123]

Not every dungeon can meet the minimum expectations set by the most average IE games, like Icewind Dale

Fixed that for you.

 

[Prime Junta]

I think it's pretty significant in itself that "is Deadfire better than BG2" is even a valid topic of conversation here. BG2 sets the bar high, and for just about anything else hitherto the comparison would just get laughed out of town.

BG2 is unique in that it really is something that adds up to way more than the sum of its parts. The story is frankly dumb and if an Obsidian game tried to pull off a motivation like "save 20k to save Imoen who we have arbitrarily decided you care about enough to go through all the inconvenience" it'd be roundly pilloried. The quests are almost all completely linear, and most of them only allow a single approach, viz. kill everything. It is wildly unbalanced. The systems are stupidly exploitable. The Athkatla event dispenser which is tied to in-game time has got to be one of the stupidest and most badly-executed ideas in the history of RPGs. The companions are rock-solidly written, for a twelve-year-old writer.

And none of that matters, except to the extent that it makes it harder to get into the game.

Athkatla is such an incredibly rich sandbox to play in. It's already pretty impressive on the surface -- a busy city with cool architecture and lots of people running around; shops, temples, slums, docks, taverns, you name it. And when you start discovering its secrets, it seems like it never ends -- and most of those secrets are really carefully crafted. Secret doors that hide haunted tombs and pirate hideaways. Sewers that lead to an underground lair of horrid monsters at the centre of a cult. Fragments of a mystery that you can put together to unravel a great fight puzzle, or eventually put together a weapon of godlike power. Mysteries that are only ever half-elucidated. And a mind-blowingly wide range of creatures to defeat and encounters to beat, all set in environments that look great and make the fights that much more interesting -- even if it's just a pack of kobolds on two sides of a sewer you can only cross at one point. And it seems like it never ends!

I am really keen to see if Deadfire manages to capture some of that magic.

But I do laugh at people praising BG2 for the writing. That's like claiming you read Penthouse for the hard-hitting journalism. Not the fucking point, bro.

 

[Riddler]

Or how about oathbreakers sanctum?

Effectively 3 rooms in which is a 2 minute backstory before you slaughter a roomful of cultists in order to obtain a drunk as a ship crewman.

A beautiful dungeon, extremely short, with writing that serves as zero complement.

Compare that to something like Dragon's Eye or the yuan ti temple. It was a complete waste and yet is typical throughout the game.

Not every dungeon can be a transcendent metaphysical experience like Icewind Dale

Josh?

 

[aweigh]

-10 ACC is actually a good debuff. ACC is the single most important stat in the game, esp. in PotD.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I think it's pretty significant in itself that "is Deadfire better than BG2" is even a valid topic of conversation here.

except i also remember "is poe better than bg2" being a "valid topic of conversation" (tm) for poe1 release thread

 

[Riddler]

But I do laugh at people praising BG2 for the writing. That's like claiming you read Penthouse for the hard-hitting journalism. Not the fucking point, bro.

That BG2's writing is still vastly superior to Deadfire's doesn't really speak well of the absolute quality of Deadfire's writing.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Better is a stretch. But to my mind, Deadfire - and especially Neketaka - deserve some respect as the last of a kind. Athkatla and Sigil were Athens and Rome, Neketaka was New York or Paris. Sadly, I don't think we'll see their like again.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Combat systems and ruleset is a lot better than shitty AD&D

I think they are too diverged to be compared at this point. The two systems fulfill different goals, but they both fulfill them. Also "AD&D" is not the same as "The IE games' combat systems", for obvious reasons. Namely, one is a videogame adaptation of the other.

Fighter classes have special abilities so it's not just point and click

I'd argue they have too much clicking. When I get to overhauling abilities and combat, I'll reduce the frequency of non-caster "spells" significantly.

What is it about the music that people don't like? I really love it.

Then you have no senses for good music.

I do agree with the rest of your points though. Coming from a recent SoA+ToB playthrough, BGII is very overrated, and it has been surpassed by now in every area where it broke new ground. The IWDs have aged a lot better than BG and BGII.

One thing I'd like to do is make it so that an item type can use the proficiency ability from another of its type, for example having a pistol utilize the arquebus proficiency modal and vice-versa. How would you go about this?

Off the top of my head, you should look in abilities.gamedatabundle for the respective modal ability, then search for where this modal ability is used. When you find that, you just add the modal ability of the other item you want. You could also see how warrior stances have been done and imitate that structure. I'll have to dig into the files to tell you with more precision.

I think it's pretty significant in itself that "is Deadfire better than BG2" is even a valid topic of conversation here. BG2 sets the bar high, and for just about anything else hitherto the comparison would just get laughed out of town.

Someone should tell Josh that - the RPG Codex: "Deadfire is better than BGII".

 

[Riddler]

What is it about the music that people don't like? I really love it.

Few new tracks and those that are new pale in comparison to those of PoE and WM (which isn't really a tall order). The tracks feel unpolished and unfinished, like the composer ran out of time and just went with the first draft.

The orchestra recording sounds like a synthethizer, which is just sad.

The shanties and other sound design is pretty solid though.

Edit: Additionally there is a severe lack of situational music. No companion themes, no faction themes, no boss fight themes etc.

 

[AwesomeButton]

and lots of people running around;

That's hilarious because "lots of people running around" is exactly what Athkatla doesn't have. This feeling is being conveyed by the ambient sounds (which are on a separate fucking slider for a good reason, Obsidian), and it has much fewer NPCs on the streets than you can see in Neketaka or Defiance Bay. But I guess you didn't mean this literally.