Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[fantadomat]

Just finished it (PotD, no level scaling). My two cents follow:

- economy is as broken as in the first game, I finished with 450k gold in the bank and more gear in the inventory I couldn't be bothered to sell

JES just said the economy is broken because generic Legendary items aren't supposed to drop for the player - those gave me easily over 300k in my run, so that might be enough to fix stuff.

I never sold legendary items. All my cash came from generic superb mace/longbow/sword etc. I never bought a whole of stuff though.

Maybe you sold a few soulbound items,they have similar colouring. There are 5 in the game. Talking sword,mace,handlebar,rifle and something else.

 

[Parabalus]

Just finished it (PotD, no level scaling). My two cents follow:

- economy is as broken as in the first game, I finished with 450k gold in the bank and more gear in the inventory I couldn't be bothered to sell

JES just said the economy is broken because generic Legendary items aren't supposed to drop for the player - those gave me easily over 300k in my run, so that might be enough to fix stuff.

I never sold legendary items. All my cash came from generic superb mace/longbow/sword etc. I never bought a whole of stuff though.

Maybe you sold a few soulbound items,they have similar colouring. There are 5 in the game. Talking sword,mace,handlebar,rifle and something else.

Nah, was legendaries, there were a bunch of the generic ones, I think from Nemnok dungeon. Last soulbound is dagger, all the soulbounds seemingly suck though.

 

[Safav Hamon]

Sooo Baldur's gate is a pile of shit next to this gem of masterful writing and world building? It is good to know that Obsidian devs still make accounts on the codex,couldn't wait for you to spill your guts in five years,like MCA did.

Nope, Baldurs Gate II is a great game. My point is that it has many flaws which people overlook, and Deadfire does many things just as good or even better. For the record, the worldbuilding is better compared to generic forgotten realms crap.

What does Deadfire do better than BG2? The only thing I can see is the Fallout New Vegas narrative structure and the overall combat (if you don't count mages).

Many things...

The 17th century polynesian setting is more interesting
Neketaka is more detailed than Athkatla (impressive feat)
The visuals, animations, and artwork are superior
More dialogue options and skill checks than Baldurs Gate II
Combat systems and ruleset is a lot better than shitty AD&D
The classes have more unique mechanics and playstyles
Power source make spellcasting fun
Fighter classes have special abilities so it's not just point and click
We both agree on the narrative structure being closer to Fallout: New Vegas
Bigger world and non-linear exploration
Seemingly more content overall
Itemization is significantly better
C&C and reactivity is greater

 

[fantadomat]

Just finished it (PotD, no level scaling). My two cents follow:

- economy is as broken as in the first game, I finished with 450k gold in the bank and more gear in the inventory I couldn't be bothered to sell

JES just said the economy is broken because generic Legendary items aren't supposed to drop for the player - those gave me easily over 300k in my run, so that might be enough to fix stuff.

I never sold legendary items. All my cash came from generic superb mace/longbow/sword etc. I never bought a whole of stuff though.

Maybe you sold a few soulbound items,they have similar colouring. There are 5 in the game. Talking sword,mace,handlebar,rifle and something else.

Nah, was legendaries, there were a bunch of the generic ones, I think from Nemnok dungeon. Last soulbound is dagger, all the soulbounds seemingly suck though.

Hahahaha to prove your point i will say that i was using the dagger on my rogue,it was worthless pile of shit that one. Totally forgot about it. The mace dagger that you have from the start is maybe the best one,also it have green flames and acts as a torch.

 

[fantadomat]

Sooo Baldur's gate is a pile of shit next to this gem of masterful writing and world building? It is good to know that Obsidian devs still make accounts on the codex,couldn't wait for you to spill your guts in five years,like MCA did.

Nope, Baldurs Gate II is a great game. My point is that it has many flaws which people overlook, and Deadfire does many things just as good or even better. For the record, the worldbuilding is better compared to generic forgotten realms crap.

What does Deadfire do better than BG2? The only thing I can see is the Fallout New Vegas narrative structure and the overall combat (if you don't count mages).

Many things...

The 17th century polynesian setting is more interesting
Neketaka is more detailed than Athkatla (impressive feat)
The visuals, animations, and artwork are superior
More dialogue options and skill checks than Baldurs Gate II
Combat systems and ruleset is a lot better than shitty AD&D
The classes have more unique mechanics and playstyles
Power source make spellcasting fun
Fighter classes have special abilities so it's not just point and click
We both agree on the narrative structure being closer to Fallout: New Vegas
Bigger world and non-linear exploration
Seemingly more content overall
Itemization is significantly better
C&C and reactivity is greater

I see that you lied about playing any of the top 70 rpgs. You are just spouting shit mate. Don't you have bugs to fix,the game is a mess? Fucking nu rpgs fans devs.

 

[Sentinel]

Branching quests with C&C?

Dunno about this. Haven't replayed it.

Reputation system?

Which, from my impression, was largely useless & pointless. Will have to replay to see what changes though.

More interesting world, instead of rote Faerun?

This is purely a matter of taste. I prefer high medieval fantasy to Eora any day of the week.

Actual character building options inside a class?

Correct.

Better itemization?

Correct.

Thing is, as a fantasy campaign, BG2 is still miles ahead of PoE2. From soundtrack, to companions, to antagonist, to final confrontation, it's all there. BG2 has a simple narrative and characters, but they work perfectly, and that game is still unmatched in terms of giving you the romanticized feeling of a grand high fantasy adventure, unfortunately.

 

[Sentinel]

Power source make spellcasting fun

You mean empower?

 

[Safav Hamon]

You don't have to think Deadfire is a masterpiece, but it's a solid CRPG that does a lot more right than wrong.

You should start by hearing your own advice, your posts are awful to read, more fanboyism than even Infinitron and Prima Junta combined can achieve. Sure, people can be sometimes be too negative but you aren't riding on a high horse my friend. There are people that liked the game and are saying their opinions on a realistic and interesting way like Shadenaut that are actually interesting to read, your fanboyism is just plain boring.

It's not that I have nothing negative to say, but there's enough negativity at this shithole already. Believe it or not, sometimes I like focusing on the positives and not just relentlessly shitting on everything.

 

[The Great ThunThun*]

Here's my take on the writing: people who like it and people who don't, are both correct.

The game definitely isn't up to standard we came to expect from Obsidian. And given that Obsidian lost all of their top talent, it's probably time to realize that things won't be improving any time soon.

I really crave an Obsidian game which is a flawed gem and not a polished turd, but I won't get one because of No Ziets and No Avellone. So let's get down to it.

With that being said, Deadfire also fixes most of the writing flaws of the first game.

I wish I could agree with this. But to me, this seems like wishful thinking.

NPCs aren't automated lore dispensers anymore.

They did not really fix the problem. The problem was "lore dump" i.e. NPCs telling you in a single flow what the world was like. Which made no sense. In a game like PoE it should either be show not tell, or at least provide information in the right context. The game that does this well is Deus Ex. You read the newspaper and it ends up having more character than anything PoE/2 whips up. PoE2 corrects that by removing lore dump, where they ought to have replaced it with the actual fix.

Companions are much better integrated into the setting and feel like genuine characters that could exist within that world, as opposed to Generic Mage Companion, Generic Tank Companion of PoE1.

This is maybe partly true. I would say that PoE has two really good companions who actually fit in the story, Durance and Grieving mother. They were actually associated with the history of the world and had good writing with strong, emotionally appealing motivations.

The rest of the companions were generic garbage, despite fitting well in that world. Aloth, Eder or Kana or even Sagani had some connection to the plot and were perfectly good examples of the citizens of Eora. That did not make them bad. What made them terrible was the blandness with which they were written. Even Aloth, a guy with Schizophrenia and a mysterious past was farking bland. Your brain is leading you right; there is something wrong with these, but it's not their genericness. It's simply the shallow character writing. These arguments of shallow character writing are equally valid for PoE2. To me, at least, with these criteria, PoE2 companions are as bland as the ones in PoE.

Factions aren't pointless decoration, they are serious players.

Admittedly, factions are an improvement over PoE. But this is nowhere near how factions can be written in a really well-designed way, e.g. in FNV. Obsidian needs Gonzales, I think?

Lore is incredibly well thought out and consistent.

Is it though? It is, in fact, inconsistent in the broad strokes in very many ways. e.g. Souls are supposed to be the source of magic, but then out of fucking nowhere, you have multiclassing which allows fighters to have magic??? Wtf? etc.

Main plot is nothing special but at least it puts you right in the middle of a crisis that actually feels real and doesn't go limpdick after 2 hours. The writing style itself has been tightened up a bit and isn't as overly verbose as in the first game.

I dunno man. I felt that the main plot was hackneyed and actually made very little sense. Literally to be chalked down to artificial player motivation. The guy stole your soul. But hey, no hurry, take your time with sidequests. Also, his motivation makes zero sense, because apparently the gods are created beings but have portfolios that can lead to the world being destroyed???? Anyone care to explain that one?

So yeah. Deafire isn't going to be winning any awards for the narrative and it won't have a legacy that will inspire generations, but mostly it's solid and solid is probably the height of what we can expect from nu-Obsidian.

You got that right.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Yeah soulbound items are completely pointless. I'm not gonna wait half the game until item becomes good when in the late game there's master/legendary weapons dropping left and right.

 

[Sentinel]

More dialogue options and skill checks than Baldurs Gate II

C&C and reactivity is greater

Have you replayed the game? I can't see how you can claim these as a positive unless you have replayed it. What if the checks don't matter in the end, and the reactivity is just not there? It's true that almost any amount of reactivity will make it superior to BG2, but that doesn't mean it's a better game. Especially considering almost any RPG after 2000 has more reactivity than BG2 (and even some of its contemporaries had more than BG2 itself).

Also all your points are related to the narrative structure & gameplay, which I straight up said was superior to BG2. So unless you meant to agree with me, I'm not sure what the point of your post is.

 

[MajorMace]

Branching quests with C&C?

Dunno about this. Haven't replayed it.

Reputation system?

Which, from my impression, was largely useless & pointless. Will have to replay to see what changes though.

More interesting world, instead of rote Faerun?

This is purely a matter of taste. I prefer high medieval fantasy to Eora any day of the week.

Actual character building options inside a class?

Correct.

Better itemization?

Correct.

Thing is, as a fantasy campaign, BG2 is still miles ahead of PoE2. From soundtrack, to companions, to antagonist, to final confrontation, it's all there. BG2 has a simple narrative and characters, but they work perfectly, and that game is still unmatched in terms of giving you the romanticized feeling of a grand high fantasy adventure, unfortunately.

Agreed with everything except faerun vs eora. Or rather, the archipelago (dyrwood yaaawn).

Unrelated :
Regarding soulbound weapons, they're super disappointing for two reasons imo :
- You can find several of them in the most mundane and forgettable conditions (huge decline compared to the white march)
- Enchanted unique stuff is as good, if not better sometimes. Which I'm not sure I would qualify as a bad point overall, mind you. Because any non soulbound stuff from poe1 could be immediatly thrown in the trashcan, which tells a lot about poe1 itemization.

(The soulbound thunder halberd though. Holy shit. Probably the best one overall (powers and lore/unlocks).)

 

[Shadenuat]

Many things

Having more things doesn't mean having a one better thing.

 

[Parabalus]

Branching quests with C&C?

Dunno about this. Haven't replayed it.

Reputation system?

Which, from my impression, was largely useless & pointless. Will have to replay to see what changes though.

More interesting world, instead of rote Faerun?

This is purely a matter of taste. I prefer high medieval fantasy to Eora any day of the week.

Actual character building options inside a class?

Correct.

Better itemization?

Correct.

Thing is, as a fantasy campaign, BG2 is still miles ahead of PoE2. From soundtrack, to companions, to antagonist, to final confrontation, it's all there. BG2 has a simple narrative and characters, but they work perfectly, and that game is still unmatched in terms of giving you the romanticized feeling of a grand high fantasy adventure, unfortunately.

• Bg quests with multiple solutions are rarity, you don't need even the &C part of C&C.
• soundtrack - dunno, SoA main theme is more memorable, ambient and combat music eeeh I like some of Dumpsterfire's tracks. There was some high brow discussion mainly from Lacrymas shitting on Dumpsterfire's from a technical perspective so I guess it's worse
• antagonist - cmon, Irenicus is a Mary Sue and his motivation is a pure revenge fantasy, Eothas at least adds a spin to it
• Do you mean ToB or SoA ending here? If SoA, the I agree, Deadfire ending kinda feels like how Bg2 would be if the game ends after you kill him at the tree, without the trials

I obviously like Bg2 and think it's a great game, but I believe it's more of a case (speaking for myself) of harbouring

romanticized feelings

towards it, rather than it being so much better than everything that came after it. SCS is also a really big part of why the game is still relevant, without the mods it wouldn't really be it.

 

[fantadomat]

 

[imweasel]

Sawyer is already close to tears. No need to hit on a man when he is already down.

 

[Sentinel]

• Bg quests with multiple solutions are rarity, you don't need even the &C part of C&C.

True. I already commented on it though.

• antagonist - cmon, Irenicus is a Mary Sue and his motivation is a pure revenge fantasy, Eothas at least adds a spin to it

There's nothing inherently wrong with pure revenge fantasy (Kreia is ultimately a revenge motivated character, for example). At most, there can be plenty wrong with the motivations for the revenge, which I'd agree can be perceived as childish by some in the case of Irenicus. But I also partially agreed to this when I said above that "BG2 has a simple narrative and characters". The point is, the BG2 writers didn't have any illusions of grandeur with going for pseudo-philosophical themes. Eothas isn't even an antagonist in PoE2. He's like the nicest character you meet in the entire game. Irenicus's final fight was also better than PoE2's, which didn't have a final confrontation with anyone at all. You talk to Eothas and he's all like "Bros, I love you all very much, and I have faith in you. Just b urselves =)", you say "1. Okay" and the game ends.

But I'm interested, what spin do you feel Eothas puts on the revenge fantasy trope? I don't think he wanted revenge at all. At least not in my game.

• Do you mean ToB or SoA ending here? If SoA, the I agree, Deadfire ending kinda feels like how Bg2 would be if the game ends after you kill him at the tree, without the trials

I mean SoA. I never completed ToB.

As for the "romanticized feelings towards BG2", I didn't play through it when I was young, so there isn't any nostalgia involved there.

 

[fantadomat]

Sawyer is already close to tears. No need to hit on a man when he is already down.

To be honest he seems like a decent dev that likes RPGs,hope he leaves Obsidian and finds a studio that helps him make his dream medieval game. I don't believe that the game problems are because of him,it is more of a Feargus interfering in the development and Sawyer just stop giving shit at some point.

 

[Krzysiek]

 

[fantadomat]

TheSentinel,kingdom come hare pretty good revenge story,it is shame that by the end of the game you didn't kill any of the people you want revenge on. Really would have liked macing that faggot. Not many give the protagonist a revenge motivation. Would love to see more such games,if well made.

 

[Lacrymas]

Why illogical? Why did it fall apart on the first soulguilt trip?

Because the events up to the first town (even up to Maerwald) aren't connected to each other. There are 4 events - your belly ache and the search for berries, the attack on the caravan, the dungeon delving and the ritual at Cilant Lis. At most, only the belly ache and the ritual are connected if we assume that Thaos was forcing you to Awaken due to your proximity to the ritual, but it's not explained why it was only you, so it's not clear if they are indeed connected. The first soulguilt trip becomes the focus of the story because it leads up to Iovara (that doesn't matter), but the narrative wasn't about that before and it still isn't, you have to catch up to Thaos, so that's where it falls apart. It splits itself into two disconnected parts. Apart from being lame motivation, but that's a too basic and easy criticism. I don't know if I'm explaining it understanbly.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

How is promoting a niche genre gatekeeping, exactly? Do you understand the contradiction there?

Many codexers were rooting against this game before it even released. That's not promoting a niche genre, but actively working to undermine it. If you love CRPGs and want to promote them, then admit when a game is good. People like Lacrymas and Fantadomat are posers with their biased overly negative opinions. If you are a real CRPG fan, then give this game a fair chance and don't just be a mindless hater. You don't have to think Deadfire is a masterpiece, but it's a solid CRPG that does a lot more right than wrong.

Hello Obsidian narrative designer! If you didn't want us to guess that you are Carrie/Paul/Megan/Kate/Tony, you shouldn't have used the term "gatekeeping" in a non-ironic way. That said, you make some good points and I generally agree with you that Deadfire has a lot going for it, even as it desperately needs that patch.

 

[Sensuki]

From what I am reading it sounds like this game is buggier than the first one on release

 

[fantadomat]

Lacrymas who did you sacrifice to Skaen in this game?

 

[fantadomat]

From what I am reading it sounds like this game is buggier than the first one on release

It makes nu fallout games blush.