People News ObsidiLeaks: The Chris Avellone May of Rage Archive

[Darth Roxor]

MCA = Midlife Crisis Avellone
"Everyone is shit except for me"

Happy to give you the rundown of my failings and my failing with every game I've worked on, inc. copying from other sources. I'm not a saint, and I have made a lot of mistakes, for sure.

give us a list of your failings on descent to undermountain

 

[Infinitron]

Also, to expand, I think UI was one of the reasons Guido checked out of Torment (he definitely gave off the vibe like he had given up except for his face on the cover) and focused on Neverwinter Nights as a way to leave his mark and have more control - but then ran into problems with upper management once they started interacting with him.

What was the big deal about the UI, why check out because of that?

Also, now that I think about it, NWN also had a radial UI. Coincidence?

 

[Chris Avellone]

Do you have any examples of Managers who at one time were bad and then eventually became good managers? Or is it hard for an old dog to learn new tricks in this industry?

That's a good question. Let me give it some thought. The problem is, good managers seemed to be good managers before they ever worked at Black Isle or Obsidian (ex: Brandon Adler and Matt Singh seemed to know production far better than the owners, so the thought the owners might train them made me sad inside - if anything, they should have been mentoring the owners, not the other way around).

I'll be honest, the only thing that comes to mind related to managing was how there were very good managers at Black Isle (Torment's art lead, Tim Donley) who rather than sidelining artists, actively took ones other projects didn't like or had cast aside, mentored and trained them (a shocker for a lead, I know, but it was that kind of place at the time), then turning them into an effective team that were very, very productive. I learned a lot from Tim, I thought he was ahead of Interplay's awareness of what a good manager should be (and Obsidian's), and he inspired (rightfully) support and hard work from the people reporting to him. And this was while the other senior artists at Black Isle were busy hosting Quake servers in the middle of the day and letting Stonekeep 2 burn (which Colin McComb and I would write haikus to each other about, since it was symptomatic of how Black Isle Studios was run - the privileged could goof off all day, get "milestone bonuses" that no one else got, but the people actively making games and making progress didn't get or request the same treatment). Colin writes amazing haikus, btw. They're deadly. Also, I was one of the ones who, when learning that BIS's SK2 lead producer was hired at Obsidian, we all got a cold shiver in our stomachs (part of the reason was he, again, Feargus's friend).

I did make the mistake of asking Tim to come back and work with the ex-BIS crew (Obsidian) - if I could go back in time, I'd order my younger self to spare Tim the agony. He tried to educate, and it wasn't well-received.

give us a list of your failings on descent to undermountain

That's also a long answer. In short: some level designs (of mine) used too many polygons and were way too intricate, Khelben Blackstaff's script (which was stiff and really, pretty terrible). While I did the best I could with the design, I was new to the process, I wasn't very good, and arguably, one of our other designers, Rob Hanz (who Feargus didn't care for) had smarter approaches to the process b/c he was more savvy with games (when Bethesda's Terminator FPS game came out, Rob instantly saw that mouselook was a far superior UI, but it was very new to everyone else). The good news is to all reports, Rob is happy at future endeavors (although I think he had to work on the port of Armored Warfare for Sony).

 

[Chris Avellone]

What was the big deal about the UI, why check out because of that?

Also, now that I think about it, NWN also had a radial UI. Coincidence?

Radial UI: That's a good point. I'm not sure where NWN's UI came from (I didn't have a lot of contact with the NWN team, and I believe we lost the rights to publish D&D games in the middle of NWN's development). I wonder if there's anyone from BioWare at the time who would know.

 

[Infinitron]

Also, I was one of the ones who, when learning that BIS's SK2 lead producer was hired at Obsidian, we all got a cold shiver in our stomachs (part of the reason was he, again, Feargus's friend).

Fairfax Roguey Let's see if you can find out who this is.

 

[Chris Avellone]

Fairfax Roguey Let's see if you can find out who this is.

Be careful, it's one of Feargus's oldest friends. Feargus didn't tell us he hired him until after it had happened, and we all got pretty uncomfortable when the news was passed along (we didn't always hear about new hires at a PD level, which I thought was a mistake - but Feargus knew there'd be contention if we hired him, so he just went ahead and did it).

I could deal with it as long as he was on other outsourced projects, but when those failed and got removed from Obs (and with good reason), I was sad to hear he became part of the core company, since even though I liked him, I thought he was symptomatic of the nepotism corporate culture that was growing in the company.

 

[Infinitron]

Fairfax Roguey Let's see if you can find out who this is.

Be careful, it's one of Feargus's oldest friends. Feargus didn't tell us he hired him until after it had happened, and we all got pretty uncomfortable when the news was passed along (we didn't always hear about new hires at a PD level, which I thought was a mistake - but Feargus knew there'd be contention if we hired him, so he just went ahead and did it).

I could deal with it as long as he was on other outsourced projects, but when those failed and got removed from Obs (and with good reason), I was sad to hear he became part of the core company, since even though I liked him, I thought he was symptomatic of the nepotism corporate culture that was growing in the company.

 

[jaydee2k]

My god sorry but this is getting more and more whiny and attention whory.
Go on and leave it behind you. Nobody is talking shit about you this openely and I bet there are a ton of people who could. This is just bad style.

 

[Big Wrangle]

While Avellone is certainly pissed at some people, the only way to acknowledge problems in the industry is by people talking about it. By that same logic Sawyer should shut the fuck up about unions and be content in wage slavery. Yes, the timing with the release of PoE 2 is unfortunate, but there is never a good time for these things. Just like the Weistein effect.
If what you mean is if he'll keep talking forever, he's gonna have work to do after all, so it'll eventually stop.

 

[Tacgnol]

I'll be honest, the only thing that comes to mind related to managing was how there were very good managers at Black Isle (Torment's art lead, Tim Donley) who rather than sidelining artists, actively took ones other projects didn't like or had cast aside, mentored and trained them (a shocker for a lead, I know, but it was that kind of place at the time), then turning them into an effective team that were very, very productive. I learned a lot from Tim, I thought he was ahead of Interplay's awareness of what a good manager should be (and Obsidian's), and he inspired (rightfully) support and hard work from the people reporting to him. And this was while the other senior artists at Black Isle were busy hosting Quake servers in the middle of the day and letting Stonekeep 2 burn (which Colin McComb and I would write haikus to each other about, since it was symptomatic of how Black Isle Studios was run - the privileged could goof off all day, get "milestone bonuses" that no one else got, but the people actively making games and making progress didn't get or request the same treatment). Colin writes amazing haikus, btw. They're deadly. Also, I was one of the ones who, when learning that BIS's SK2 lead producer was hired at Obsidian, we all got a cold shiver in our stomachs (part of the reason was he, again, Feargus's friend).

I'm actually curious as to what type of game Stonekeep 2 was supposed to be.

Was it going to be a first person dungeon crawler like the first game, or did you guys have something else planned?

 

[jaydee2k]

As if. Hes on revenge mode and throws shit at everybody that he ever worked with. There are opinions that stated things a little differently "Fenstermarker..." Its only his story, nobody can say what its true about it and what are lies. So it will change shit in the industry. Its just unproffessional

 

[Grauken]

Fuck, everybody knew for ages that Henkel was a whiny bitch who would go on and on how he was what made PST great and sadly nobody ever said anything against it, I'm happy MCA did it

 

[jaydee2k]

Yeah I get it, you will suck every lie out of his cock with joy.

 

[Grauken]

Rather MCA than Henkel

 

[jaydee2k]

I'm not saying Henkel is right about everything but neither is Chris.But everybody here acts if hes writing the holy bible again or something. This is just cringeworthy.

 

[Big Wrangle]

throws shit at everybody that he ever worked with.

That's a hyperbole and you know it. Pages ago he talked about how he likes the developers at Obsidian and went on to dicuss positive experiences with more than a few folks. Avellone's beef is the upper management, he's not a mastermind planning to liquidate the company and drive every staff member into depth.
Can Fergus even be called a professional with all this? Now, I'm willing to hear out all sides of the story. Avellone himself said you shouldn't fanatically take him as gospel and dismiss everyone else. But dismissing people and victims as begging for attention like that is why many issues in the industry didn't become a discussion for a while. Going on an extreme is bad, but you're suggesting an extreme of the other direction.

Or maybe I'm a shill, or something.

 

[Grauken]

I'm not saying Henkel is right about everything but neither is Chris.But everybody here acts if hes writing the holy bible again or something. This is just cringeworthy.

And you suffer a critical reading failure if you believe everybody here believes everything MCA says (just ask Blaine)

I read a number of interviews over the years with Henkel, I saw how he behaved and communicated during his own kickstarter attempts, and it all felt like there was a guy with a seriously overblown ego completely out of touch with gaming. I didn't need MCA to see that

 

[Grape_You_In_the_Mouth]

Loved reading MCA rail against iHaveHugeNick. One of the craziest people I've seen on here.

 

[Darth Roxor]

jaydee just wants his obsidian developer tag

 

[jaydee2k]

haha no. but this shit is fucked. Couldn't care less about Fergie.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

It also helps when your living expenses amount to a few hundred bucks each week

got to be sf

 

[Trashos]

As if. Hes on revenge mode and throws shit at everybody that he ever worked with. There are opinions that stated things a little differently "Fenstermarker..." Its only his story, nobody can say what its true about it and what are lies. So it will change shit in the industry. Its just unproffessional

Well, who is stopping all the mentioned people to show up and give us their version of events?

 

[jaydee2k]

throws shit at everybody that he ever worked with.

That's a hyperbole and you know it. Pages ago he talked about how he likes the developers at Obsidian and went on to dicuss positive experiences with more than a few folks. Avellone's beef is the upper management, he's not a mastermind planning to liquidate the company and drive every staff member into depth.
Can Fergus even be called a professional with all this? Now, I'm willing to hear out all sides of the story. Avellone himself said you shouldn't fanatically take him as gospel and dismiss everyone else. But dismissing people and victims as begging for attention like that is why many issues in the industry didn't become a discussion for a while. Going on an extreme is bad, but you're suggesting an extreme of the other direction.

Or maybe I'm a shill, or something.

The industry the industry. Hes shitting at Obsidian thats all. And only at people that where over him in the hierarchy at the time. Thats laughable. I didn't liked a few of my bosses either but I didn't painted it on the street or fucked it in the throats of my following cult.

 

[Fairfax]

Fairfax Roguey Let's see if you can find out who this is.

Be careful, it's one of Feargus's oldest friends. Feargus didn't tell us he hired him until after it had happened, and we all got pretty uncomfortable when the news was passed along (we didn't always hear about new hires at a PD level, which I thought was a mistake - but Feargus knew there'd be contention if we hired him, so he just went ahead and did it).

I could deal with it as long as he was on other outsourced projects, but when those failed and got removed from Obs (and with good reason), I was sad to hear he became part of the core company, since even though I liked him, I thought he was symptomatic of the nepotism corporate culture that was growing in the company.

He's the guy who co-produced Fallout 2 with Feargus after Tim Cain left. Apparently he was Lead Producer on AW (and whatever they did with Skyforge) at Obsidian.

 

[Grauken]

Eric DeMilt?