RPG Codex Interview: Chris Avellone on Pillars Cut Content, Game Development Hierarchies and More

[JBro]

To put it simply: The Codex is no more welcoming of new people or ideas than any other forum. In fact, I would venture to say it is LESS welcoming of new people, judging by the way the elitist cliques were circling me when I first turned up and the fact that concerned people are still advising me to not be so outspoken because I am a relatively new poster.

You sound like a bitch.

 

[Wunderbar]

Rape in fiction can be trauma trigger. Your game has Cook Cook raping left and right. I want to understand why you thought this was necessary and important, considering Fallout didn't have this, not even when Tandi was kidnapped.

but rape was a thing in previous fallout games. Myron could rape you, if you're playing as female with low intelligence.

 

[Ezeekiel]

I'm imagining Cael pushed into a corner by a bunch of manga-delinquents with ridiculous perms right now hahahaha

 

[Ezeekiel]

Not better or worse than any other forum? Feel free to join resetera then...The consequences of triggering a negative response for stating your opinion or even just regular trolling are wildly different.

Of course there are cliques, but so what? 5-10 guys who don't like your opinion and get verbally rough, oh no. If your opinion is really unpopular, it'll be more guys, but again... Big deal.
They don't ban you for saying that VtMB was a buggy mess with janky-ass combat (which is most of the shade I can think of). And what does bully and harass even mean in this context? Some "shit" ratings? A tag? So what. This isn't reddit where downvotes can hide comments or trigger a deletion.
If I accidentally make the wrong kind of joke or whatever I get banned in many other places.

If you don't know what bully and harass means, then you have no cause to judge other sites and how they run things.

Again, what does that even mean?

Let us not wax lyrical here. The Codex has the same type of Island Mentality problems that other forums have. The triggers are different, but the aggressive hate and attacks are the same. Just because the mods don't ban people (most of the time) doesn't mean that the posters do not create their own culture that is hostile to others.

So... With all that amazing hate and whatnot... What keeps you here?

To put it simply: The Codex is no more welcoming of new people or ideas than any other forum. In fact, I would venture to say it is LESS welcoming of new people, judging by the way the elitist cliques were circling me when I first turned up and the fact that concerned people are still advising me to not be so outspoken because I am a relatively new poster.

I'm guessing you're joking in general, but in case you're not, come on you drama queen
I promise you that I value your Battle Tech knowledge and agree with many of your criticisms of that low-effort BT game and how the devs treated the setting like crap etc.
And with me on your side, what else could you possibly need, eh?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

And with me on your side, what else could you possibly need, eh?

A way to get to the other side as fast as possible.

 

[mondblut]

RPS says that the game is about "colonialism mixed with exploitation of natural resources" but says the story is very bad because it "suggests the complicity of the natives."

Please archives.is their crap.

So, judging by John Wanker's bawwing, this is the best game Obsidian has ever produced, and this era's BG2?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

So, judging by John Wanker's bawwing, this is the best game Obsidian has ever produced, and this era's BG2?

If only he had something substantial to say about how the gameplay is.

 

[Kleptocratic debt serf]

And yet the Codex' population of commies is still here, and lots of less polarized types to boot.
Meanwhile, as brought up before, NeoGaf for example got completely taken over by SJW nutjobs... Who used heavy handed moderation for the purpose. Most forums of note that I can think of that had some kind of connection to culture war topics ended up polarized, most often towards the "left". Comment sections on fucktons of websites are either closed entirely or disallow the opinions of one side.
Youtube comments section may be shit mostly, but all the insults etc don't seem to stop massive amounts of people from commenting there anyway.

The vast majority of people in the world seek positive reinforcement, and so in the end, a complete absence of moderation simply ensures an echo chamber for whoever is the loudest and most committed to pushing their agenda.

And yet moderation very often results in exactly the one-sidedness you think is going to happen here. Or rather, the opposite kind of one-sidedness.

This is easily one of the least one-sided places on the net. That bothers some but draws others, and not just the nazis you're so worried about.

^ Bingo... Some echo chambers are more equal than others.

 

[mondblut]

Let us not wax lyrical here. The Codex has the same type of Island Mentality problems that other forums have. The triggers are different, but the aggressive hate and attacks are the same. Just because the mods don't ban people (most of the time) doesn't mean that the posters do not create their own culture that is hostile to others.

So what? There is a million other forums on the 'net where they can find their safe space. I suggest resetera and rpg.net for starters. This turf is ours.

To put it simply: The Codex is no more welcoming of new people or ideas than any other forum. In fact, I would venture to say it is LESS welcoming of new people, judging by the way the elitist cliques were circling me when I first turned up and the fact that concerned people are still advising me to not be so outspoken because I am a relatively new poster.

We do not owe it to anybody to be nice and welcoming.

 

[Grauken]

I want a Safe Space button now

 

[mondblut]

So, judging by John Wanker's bawwing, this is the best game Obsidian has ever produced, and this era's BG2?

If only he had something substantial to say about how the gameplay is.

It appears to be light on muh story, which can only mean they tried to get gameplay right this time. After all, they were working on something, right? Right?

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Actually Cael has a point here, and for once he’s making it in a concise way!

Remember last month when that kid started the Fallout 3 is better than Fallout 2 thread? I like to think we left him somewhat traumatized. That was definitely bullying (and it was awesome!). So in a way Cael is right: this place is just as intolerant of people with the wrong opinions, it’s only that we care about important things like RPG design, rather than getting worked up about trivial stuff like the fate of the world.

But, hey, hostility and intolerance are part of that good old codex charm.

 

[mondblut]

Perhaps you should throw shade at VtMB sometime and see how that turns out.

I, for one, constantly shit on fucking PST, let alone VTMB, and make their fanboys scatter before me. Grow a pair or something

(now don't you dare to throw shit at Wizardry 7 or else... tsk tsk)

 

[Grauken]

Every place is an echo chamber, it's human nature, the difference is, you can learn to be just as abrasive as anybody else here, on other forums you get ejected as fast as possible, that not a minor difference

 

[Ezeekiel]

So, judging by John Wanker's bawwing, this is the best game Obsidian has ever produced, and this era's BG2?

If only he had something substantial to say about how the gameplay is.

Not many reviewers around who bother with gameplay details in the first place, unfortunately.

 

[Grauken]

Especially not John Walker

 

[JBro]

John Walker is anti-gamergate

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

So, judging by John Wanker's bawwing, this is the best game Obsidian has ever produced, and this era's BG2?

If only he had something substantial to say about how the gameplay is.

Isn't it obvious?

The gameplay is shit with SJW Autist Lord JES in charge.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

I think what I find exasperating is that these people front like informal, relaxed, progressive, super with-it gaming nerds who appreciate the fans and even let the fans get in on the action a little bit, but then instantly transmogrify into conservative Japanese businessmen with their loaf loppers clenched tighter than an over-torqued lug nut whenever shit gets real or a dime is on the line.

Really underlines the fact that that superficial shit is just a set of lifestyle accessories.

TBH, it's on us for consistently buying into the image they're projecting rather than admitting to ourselves that it's all business. I think most of the Obsidian guys really are gaming nerds who like to interact with their audience, but they're still doing it mainly for marketing purposes. Just like how a prostitute can enjoy having sex with her clients, but that will never be the point of the exercise for her.

And also like the noble prostitute, the moment someone fucks with their revenue stream or their rep, the time for a relaxed, friendly interaction is over and they get real serious, real fast. Nothing wrong with that: business is business. Nobody at Obsidian makes games as a hobby. They're working. We fool ourselves when we pretend otherwise, the same way some men convince themselves that a hooker really, truly likes them (she may even enjoy their company, but she's got a job to do and that takes precedence).

ha, ha, you are fooling yourself. That bitch you paid in vegas hated every second of it, especially the few minutes you spent talking and especially the sloppy kiss. She thought you had a small wiener too. Real talk.

Did you read my post? The whole point is that most devs pretend to enjoy interacting with fans the same way most prostitutes pretend to enjoy having sex with their clients. I added the caveats because I'm sure there's some prostitute somewhere who genuinely likes her job, but obviously that's an exceptional situation.

Also, my god, who kisses a hooker?

don't sweat it, it truly was a really dumb comment on my part. I wasted everyone's time making it. I will stop now before I make it worse.

 

[Cael]

So... With all that amazing hate and whatnot... What keeps you here?

I'm guessing your joking in general, but in case you're not, come on you drama queen
I promise you that I value your Battle Tech knowledge and agree with many of your criticisms of that low-effort BT game and how the devs treated the setting like crap etc.
And with me on your side, what else could you possibly need, eh?

You make my case for me. It is pretty ironic to see people fall into the same trap as sjws.

Let me explain it simply: Just because I (or anyone else) criticise something that you hold dear (or you, for that matter), it doesn't automatically follow that I hate it or am against it.

Using you as an example: I don't hate you. That would be a moronic thing to do because you haven't done anything to warrant the hate. However, I am pointing out where there is unconscious hypocrisy on your part. What you have just said is no different to a sjw telling a person to go home to his own country because that person did not agree with said sjw. "We are all tolerant here, but get the fuck out because you don't agree that this is so."

We ALL have shades of this. There is really no point denying it. It is a matter what triggers that intolerance and whether we have the self-control to censor it before it gets out. That is what politeness and civilised discourse is all about, at the end of the day. It is not about thinking in tolerant terms. It is stopping the intolerance before it gets past the vocal cords.

 

[Lahey]

If only he had something substantial to say about how the gameplay is.

Not many reviewers around who bother with gameplay details in the first place, unfortunately.

https://archive.is/C52Q3

 

[Fowyr]

Meanwhile Obsidian's thread started pretty tame and degenerated into retarded dumbfuckery.

As someone who also had a professional background in stuff I agree. The last week of posts has felt like a case-study in the evaluation of single-source reporting.
It's not a judgement on the veracity of Chris' claims, but in the last week his statements have: remained unconfirmed, been refuted, and while logically consistent in some areas, have been slow to fill in critical details that may actually support his story. The latest batch of statements have had improving credibility, but as an overall source, this whole episode has had a B-3 feel.
Again, everything he said could entirely be true, but there is still a fair amount of work on Chris' side, or the analyst side, to corroborate the claims and build a narrative dominated by fact, not emotion.
You aren't a "corporate shill" by saying, "I'm not willing to stake my reputation by taking these claims at face-value". It just makes you a shill for the methodological evaluation of information sources.

Bro, he's persistently and reliably inconsistent- the only thing consistent is the 'in' in front of 'consistent'. Doesn't necessarily mean that he's wrong, but that certainly isn't evidence that he's right.
I do wish people would drop the drink accusations though.

"If DU is right and iHaveHugeNick works at Obsidian - I didn't realize I was speaking to an actual Obsidianite..."

How naive can you get? The real Chris seems to be a smart guy, but this dude seems daft as a log.

"I'm writing tons of outrageous posts on a public forum, jousting windmills like Don Quixote, but I'm sure nobody here reading it is working at Obsidian. Hmm, Eric responded to something I wrote here a couple days ago. Nah, it must have been a coincidence." *Keeps frenetically typing*
"Oh, if any Obsidianite would appear here, then I'll change my tone entirely, switching from Codex Alt Right Chic to Common Human Decency." (Sounds like a trustworthy fella. What a galah!)
All the while, he want nothing else than responses and reactions from Obsidian. Zero points for logic and consistency.
Chris just seems to be wanting to be a rebel just for kicks.

[About Codex] Deal. I am surprised we just need an account and join date and not a list of our favourite games which he can then verify that none were released after 1992 and so are good. (Funny story I found myself referring to Red Alert 1 as a 'fairly recent game' over there [I would be fine with this rule. ]

Bro, he's persistently and reliably inconsistent- the only thing consistent is the 'in' in front of 'consistent'. Doesn't necessarily mean that he's wrong, but that certainly isn't evidence that he's right.
I do wish people would drop the drink accusations though.

I don't get it. If we're willing to excuse horrible behavior [Chris' post bout IhaveHugeNick] on the basis of being human, then I vote that the Obsidian management, who are apparently next of kin to Satan, should be exempt too.

my issue with MCA is that he has been rehashing old ideas in many of the characters that he has written after Torment and I have not seen anything from him that is nearly as memorable for a very long time now.

That really overshadows the entire nonsensical controversy for me. We're here for the games, not to be an ethics board. Presumably.

He wrote Durance, right? It's the most annoyingly overwritten, repetitive bull****ter I've seen in a video game. I'd say that's the problem right there.

I've been wanting to get this off my chest since Lonesome Road.
Avellone's writing is like if a rock band like ACDC or something is at a concert playing their usual hits and out of nowhere the lead drummer pulls out like a harp or a clarinet and just starts playing in the middle of a song.
The drummer might be really REALLY good at playing that clarinet but no matter what it clashes with everything else that's going on and sticks out like a sore thumb, making it a mess. The rest of the band may try to go along with it at first, then try to play around it, but eventually they just give up and go backstage.
Then it's just some jackass playing a three hour clarinet solo at a rock concert you payed like 40-60ish dollars to go see.
What a pain in the neck it must be to work with that drummer..

And so on, and so on...

 

[Chris Avellone]

Meanwhile Obsidian's thread started pretty tame and degenerated into retarded dumbfuckery.

And so on, and so on...

Well, to be fair, I was pretty gullible for believing Nick might be an Obsidianite (again, well-played, DU).

Still am curious on the story elements and companion arcs for Deadfire, though, and how those turned out (I've only read a few reviews, but if someone has a larger grasp, I'd love to hear their thoughts) - this isn't for the sake of snark, btw, I'm genuinely curious how it turned out compared to PoE1.

 

[The_Mask]

We do not owe it to anybody to be nice and welcoming.

And for this very reason, people like me that have been playing RPGs for a quarter of a century, choose to only watch the your displays and simply chuckle.

It's fun to think you're elite, but it's even funner to laugh at someone who thinks they're elite.







And don't reply. I don't care.

 

[Chris Avellone]

Blaine is the only person he has on ignore.

To be fair, at the time of the post, I may have had Nick on ignore (I since removed it).