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RPG Codex Interview: Chris Avellone on Pillars Cut Content, Game Development Hierarchies and More

DarkUnderlord

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You also failed to mention Avellone's own posts. Like calling IHaveHugeNick a "fucking shill", but yet you neglect to mention Avellone himself?
Please, the guy is ignoring or distoring all criticisms since page 1. Non-stop. We are in page 173 for fucks sake. He keeps repeating the same fucking bullshit, with insults on top of it. He is insulting Avellone all the time. He deserves all the heat and then some. People in this forum having being tagged and banned for less.
IHaveHugeNick is only looking after his job at Obsidian, and raising a fair point that running a business that's making a game is hard, given Chris Avellone's never really been in that position himself (given what he's saying about Obsidian, that can't count). Can't fault a guy for that.

While Infinitron makes various attempts at that sometimes (mostly which I disagree with tbh), to me it changes nothing of the remaining conversation. An internet forum is an inherently chaotic place and it's difficult to organise that on a per post level in any sort of form.
Says you, and I'm one that already had comments moved to other threads by the way. It works. But apparently in threads that really matter the whole site needs to read through the garbage so that we can actually read Avellone's posts. It's like you are trying to ruin the best thread we had in years.[/SIZE]
We're on page 174 with 4,400+ posts. I ain't trawling through all this shit and deciding what stays and what goes. That's just going to trigger the next off-topic debate about "why my post was moved" and generate another five separate threads which benefits no-one.
 
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Grab the Codex by the pussy
Who cares. I'm not here to suck avellone's dick. If he wants to leave then he can go ahead.
Oh my god, dude. This is a fucking Avellone's thread!!! We come here to see he revealing the dirty secrets of Obsidian. What more do you want? Read more shitpost in between to bloat the whole thread? What is this, some retarded jRPG where you need to grind to get to the good part? Jeeeesus. Aren't the shoutbox, the 20 button ratings, the memes, the gifs, the profile posts, the 20 and something subforums enough? For fucks sake!
 

fantadomat

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You realize how hypocritical that sounds when just a few hours ago you forbid Kit Walker from using the same avatar as MCA since it was confusing readers, right?

You realize he did it for lulz?

This has nothing to do with politics, no one is asking you to ban the attention-whores spamming low-effort shitposts - you just don't have to keep them in this thread. Otherwise what's the point of having GD and its sub-forums?

Someone is panically desperate to keep all these literally hitlers where their pink-haired friends won't see them.

Too late, buddy. You have 16 thousands posts on a known gribblergrubbler forum. You'll have much explaining to do to your femquisitors.
923815374.jpg
 

Jason Liang

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Prime Junta, capitalism isn’t perfect and doesn’t have all the answers, but is the best we can get. It basically redirects peoples flaws and lower instincts into the creation of wealth and services.


But at what cost?

I've seen Deadwood, I understand your point. But that wealth produced must also be distributed to the workers that produced it, or else it's just same old exploitation.
 
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Grab the Codex by the pussy
Prime Junta, capitalism isn’t perfect and doesn’t have all the answers, but is the best we can get. It basically redirects peoples flaws and lower instincts into the creation of wealth and services.
But at what cost? I've seen Deadwood, I understand your point. But that wealth produced must also be distributed to the workers that produced it, or else it's just same old exploitation.
TOLD YOU.
 

felipepepe

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Are you stating that DU only started this policy 3-4 years ago?
I'm saying that we got hit by a huge wave of idiots and edgy retards following GamerGate and DU doubled down on the "you can't touch them, they can shitpost everywhere!" policy, even as they were hurting some great RPG debate.

Bee helped make this the best forum on the Internet about RPGs, but DU made it clear it's more important for him to be the "free speech" forum. So the quality of threads greatly decreased, shitposting and edgy politics increased and a lot of people who actually wanted to debate RPGs left or stopped posting here, creating discord channels and the likes - even before Bee left.
 

fantadomat

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Are you stating that DU only started this policy 3-4 years ago?
I'm saying that we got hit by a huge wave of idiots and edgy retards following GamerGate and DU doubled down on the "you can't touch them, they can shitpost everywhere!" policy, even as they were hurting some great RPG debate.

Bee helped make this the best forum on the Internet about RPGs, but DU made it clear it's more important for him to be the "free speech" forum. So the quality of threads greatly decreased, shitposting and edgy politics increased and a lot of people who actually wanted to debate RPGs left or stopped posting here, creating discord channels and the likes - even before Bee left.
By that logic he should have thrown you out a long time ago,you too are a ideological fanatic that likes to splash political shit. Don't pretend to be holier than thou. Or are you arguing that only people from one side of the political spectrum should be thrown away?
 

Mr. Hiver

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Fairfax Excellent interview. And an epic thread of justice long overdue. (except of course the majority of posts by the nu biocodex)


Feargus ended up changing his mind and canceling the WL2 time (although I don’t know if he spoke to Brian about this -

Backspace failed because Stormlands got them fired because they were in the middle of a prototype and thus, were all considered expendable despite their skills and how much they'd done for the company (again, Feargus's sister was retained, however).

On top of this, Feargus would often request pitches and proposals from Obsidianites, then never do anything with any of them.
The cruel bit was once they submitted them, even though Obsidian would do nothing with them, that meant they were all owned by the company and would gather dust.

- so at that time where our finances became healthy again, I brought up that since we had the means to do so, we should pay back the employees who gave up their paychecks to keep us going.
My comment was met with silence by all the owners.
I repeated the concern, but when I brought it up again, Feargus simply said, "we never promised we'd pay the employees back," as if that excused things - but paying the employees back didn’t seem like a technicality to me, this was the right thing to do. He then said he wanted the matter dropped.

The only joy I had was when Jones and Parker would go at each other's throats (they hated each other for the simple reason that even if Parker was flawed, at least he did something - and Jones was all about not doing anything). Overall, as little as I respect Parker, at least he saw Jones for the production "oh, there's no way to do this" blocker that he was.

The reason wasn't explained to me (even though we were asked to make a decision between Josh, Adam, and I as to who the Lead Narrative Designer should be) beyond Feargus said, "George? Well, you didn't choose what I wanted, so Eric is the lead."

While being a buffer helped (slightly), the issue started coming up that Feargus would do sudden pivots on elements he had approved and the team had spent a lot of time on. He would also forget he approved them and would assume he hadn't when he saw a decision he (now) didn't like had been made.

Feargus barely interfered with the DLCs and said I did a good job with them - when he did get involved briefly, it was much the same suffering as other projects went through when they had his attention. I also had the blessing of Parker barely being involved in the DLCs as well, which was a godsend.

One reason I said no to the Planescape KS, however, was because after I drafted the specs and sent it to Ferg as requested, it sat with him and he didn't read it for months (it wasn't long, but I think it fell off his radar, despite the fact he asked for it).

Unfortunately, being assigned to Alpha Protocol also hurt chances of having a shot at doing Project Director work on New Vegas, so that was an added disappointment (although to be fair, Feargus never asked me or brought it up with discussion with the owners, instead, Josh came to him and asked for it first and Ferg agreed - this isn't a negative, as I think Josh did a good job, but I would have loved to work on it, especially after all the Van Buren work. I should have camped out outside of Ferg's office.)
Ferg was actually surprised later on when he heard I would have been interested ("You wanted to work on it?"),

That said, what I’ve spoken about is only 30% of what transpired, along with other issues. The other amount I would, however, support, speak to, and be willing to testify to if it came to it, but it’s up to others to bring the issues up. If they do, I’m happy to help however I can, and they can count on my support.

giphy.gif



Jesus Christ, Infinitron, can you give it a break for like, 5 seconds? ... Jesus Fucking H Christ, you drive me insane.

So... that's a guess? Sorry, asking for the sake of news.
I only ask because your speculation without facts I find incredibly boring unless the people speculating have bazookas.

You may begin, and omit anything from your response that isn't facts - like no "seem" or "I think" or "I believe" or worse, "I feel/I felt."

Oh, Infinitron, the joke is simple: That you report the news, as your unfortunate profile tag claims, which always make me wince when I see your claim. C'mon, don't be ridiculous. You are so biased, we can't even see you through the glare.

giphy.gif


I have to add, you apologized to this quack way too many times, but you may want to note he hasnt apologized to anyone even once.
Inf is just a cheap low hypocrite and his whole schtick is to spout strawmans he then criticizes or has "opinions" and "questions" about. While he made a nice little perch for himself of a hero fighting a good fight against "group think". Im sure if he ever got into any game development he would perform the same as Feargus, knowing better then anyone what is right or wrong. Just like he does here.

DarkUnderlord
Also there's a big difference between changing someone's avatar (for the record, he changed it himself - and my other consideration was to change everyone's avatar to MCA's for extra shits 'n giggles) and denying them speech. In the same way we have all these colourful tags for people. You can say what you like, we just might put up a warning to others if we think it's too retarded. And we'll let everyone else judge those actions accordingly
Except when you dont feel like it some other day you cheap hypocrite.


EDIT: Ah, fuck it, you're a shill. Done with you - keep supporting Feargus and shitting over the Indiana team, that's exactly the support they need to make a great RPG, you colossal fuck.

giphy.gif

Now ill get to remember Chris Avellone dishing a honest one to someone on the forums.


Btw, Blane isnt so bad at all, for all the delusions about his mad gif skillz he in no more a nazi then infinitron is an objective news poster or a honest person.


Anyway, having said all that, ill take this advice and go my own merry way.

Subscribers to a broken system don’t elicit any sympathy from me – it’s their choice. If you’re supporting a flawed pipeline and flawed process – including one that may include several problems of your own making – and if you cant* do nothing to change it, then it’s best to remove yourself from that pipeline.
 
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Grab the Codex by the pussy
I'm saying that we got hit by a huge wave of idiots and edgy retards following GamerGate and DU doubled down on the "you can't touch them, they can shitpost everywhere!" policy, even as they were hurting some great RPG debate.

Bee helped make this the best forum on the Internet about RPGs, but DU made it clear it's more important for him to be the "free speech" forum. So the quality of threads greatly decreased, shitposting and edgy politics increased and a lot of people who actually wanted to debate RPGs left or stopped posting here, creating discord channels and the likes - even before Bee left.
Let's be honest, felipepe. Dark Underlord is the type of guy that always follow the principle of least effort. Moderation requires some effort and he doesn't approve this because it will imply more work for him on the long term. Besides, he also gets to look cool for the edgy retards that don't understand the difference between freedom of speech and shitposting. Infinitron is the only one willing to get things done, but only when he feels like it.
 

Azarkon

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Fundamentally, in "normal" forums (with stricter moderation and very limited free speech) people have conversations and arguments while being forced to hide 95% of their thoughts. Personally, I 'd find that hilarious, if it weren't so tragic. Frankly, I pity them.

Never change, Codex.

I'll play the social justice devil for a moment.

There's a side to moderation that is often missed - the fact that it creates social safe spaces where people are more likely to feel welcomed, and aren't automatically turned off, or literally driven off, by the behavior of a small group of radicals who feel a perverse pleasure from being offensive.

Imagine a forum in which a close knit group of racist regulars talked shit about X people all day long. Do you think any X person would join this forum? Chances are, they wouldn't, or they might join it briefly to troll, but sooner or later, they would not be able to stand being insulted and harassed every time they log on, and they'd leave. The result isn't a platform for free speech, but an echo chamber that favors those most capable of dishing out - and taking - hate.

Free speech is a noble ideal, but the fact is, humans are incredibly sensitive to hostility, and very few people in the world would willingly subject themselves to a hostile environment, to continuous verbal abuse by those who love giving it. Having a thick skin is useful, in this regard, but there's only so much you can tolerate.

Since the choice of community online is voluntary, self-selection is the most basic form of censorship that we all practice. The Codex prides itself on free speech, but the paradox is that this very policy creates a kind of censorship, not because the people who keep away hate free speech, as a concept, but because they hate the people who use free speech to abuse them, their race, their beliefs, etc.

Such as it is, an online world in which every forum practiced loose moderation, would not be a paradise of free thought, but rather a network of echo chambers, in which people willingly segregate to be with those with whom they share similar sentiments. People on the far left and the far right of the spectrum still wouldn't willingly sit in the same rooms, because as a matter of psychology, we enjoy validation, and despise contradiction. A liberal black lesbian is not going to join a forum that worships Richard Spencer, and by the same token, Richard Spencer fans are not going to join a forum of liberal black lesbians.

Fortunately, we're not yet at the stage where politics has completely taken over all discussions on the Codex, and this is itself a product of successful moderation - of moving posts and entire threads to general or to retard, of limiting discussions on the main forums to CRPGs, etc. And our local far right and far left members are, by and large, though not always, wise enough to know when they shouldn't fuck with an useful thread. To this end, I'd say that the Codex is not being treated fairly by the rest of the CRPG community, who can't seem to see the forest for the trees. But I also don't imagine that it'd take very much for the Codex to become a lot worse than it is, had loose moderation become more like no moderation.
 

Ismaul

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Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech A Beautifully Desolate Campaign My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
I find it pretty appropriate and on-topic that a discussion on management hierarchies, what makes a good leader and bad worker management at Obsidian also delves into societal management (the communism debate) and what makes a good moderator. It's all the same problem, just differently instanciated.


Also, thanks Chris Avellone for answering questions, despite the usual heated infightings we have when we care a lot about things. Don't let it dissuade you from continuing.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

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debate RPGs
:nocountryforshitposters:

Dude, how many times in a row do you want to have the "what is an RPG" discussion and how does some random asshole dropping by and saying "nigger" every now and then really interfere with it? As others have said, the censorship drama you are bringing is doing more to derail the thread than anything yet.
 

Mustawd

Guest
Usually "going off topic" is what is known as a carrying on a natural and organic conversation. Imagine you and some friends are having a discussion about a certain topic, one friend mentions a certain subject that may not be central to the overall topic but is an organic off-shoot, everyone finds it interesting so the course of discussion naturally shifts--then some asshole walks out of nowhere and starts yelling in your faces that you aren't allowed to change the topic, and proceeds to drag away the one friend who made the "off topic" remark.

Seriously. I 100% agree with this. We can be talking about politics or whatever, but changing the subject to some woman we are dating is just a natural conversation flow. Getting worked up would be ridiculous.
 
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Grab the Codex by the pussy
By that logic he should have thrown you out a long time ago,you too are a ideological fanatic that likes to splash political shit. Don't pretend to be holier than thou. Or are you arguing that only people from one side of the political spectrum should be thrown away?
Requiring that people talk about Avellone stuff in threads about Avellone stuff is not political correctness you mongrel, it's common sense. Most people are busy and don't have the time to read through all this bullshit because you feel entitled to say the first nonsense that comes through your head. You can tell how much the codex declined by how older posters were more respectful of other posters time. Let's pretend that you are defending some freedom of speech when you are really defending the right to derail threads with nosense because you don't have anything better to do, cretin.
 
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Pegultagol

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This is hilarious. A perfect side piece to be reading while I play Deadfire. A printed copy of this thread should've been one of the stretch goals to 4 million but who knew. Thank you Codex, and MCA.
 
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Grab the Codex by the pussy
I find it pretty appropriate and on-topic that a discussion on management hierarchies, what makes a good leader and bad worker management at Obsidian also delves into societal management (the communism debate) and what makes a good moderator. It's all the same problem, just differently instanciated.
Of course you do. You are always trying to look progressive and the cool guy in these discussions about moderation. I see right through you. Since when unionisation is taken seriously in the real world of adults? This is an outdate vocabulary that only appears in the internet forums with communist larpers. But suuuure, let's pretend that this is a meaningful discusion instead of retards using the whole thing to push some teenager agenda that have nothing to do with anything.
 

Ezeekiel

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Are you stating that DU only started this policy 3-4 years ago?
I'm saying that we got hit by a huge wave of idiots and edgy retards following GamerGate and DU doubled down on the "you can't touch them, they can shitpost everywhere!" policy, even as they were hurting some great RPG debate.

Meanwhile NeoGaf and co really dodged a bullet there thanks to their tight moderation, huh? Oh wait.
 

Mustawd

Guest
Are you stating that DU only started this policy 3-4 years ago?
I'm saying that we got hit by a huge wave of idiots and edgy retards following GamerGate and DU doubled down on the "you can't touch them, they can shitpost everywhere!" policy, even as they were hurting some great RPG debate.

Bee helped make this the best forum on the Internet about RPGs, but DU made it clear it's more important for him to be the "free speech" forum. So the quality of threads greatly decreased, shitposting and edgy politics increased and a lot of people who actually wanted to debate RPGs left or stopped posting here, creating discord channels and the likes - even before Bee left.


To be fair, lowering the paywall/1 year subscription for GD is causing most of the problems we’re having now.

In the past people would come to talk about rpgs, and then GD would open up, and then the shitposters would be all “oh look. Lots of people are saying nigger and behead muslims and kill jews. How nice”

After the wall came down it was all “OMG I don’t know wtf an rpg is, but did you see those guys saying nigger and shit??!! I’m totally going over there!”

Build the wall indeed. Shit should never have come down. Whose retarded idea was that?
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
Than you agree that it shouldn't be allowed and that going off-topic is bad for conversations. Is not "the natural way" because real life conversations aren't among dozens of people simultaneously.
On the contrary, I embrace your thread derailment fully and with reckless abandon. :love:

I am just saying that if you are really against it, this drama isn't exactly helping your cause.
 

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