RPG Codex Interview: Chris Avellone on Pillars Cut Content, Game Development Hierarchies and More

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Your Kindness]

And I'm sure Tim will do that, once couple of hours passes from the whole incident. Meanwhile, I'm more than happy to hold the fort while Avellone fantasizes that he is helping teams by getting them in trouble with publishers. Captain Stretch Goal to the rescue, once he's done saving you, you'll be living in a tent.

But there is no good moment for that kind of stuff. There always will be some game on the stocks. It returns us back to Communism vs. Capitalism discussion. Should we just sit there in fear of changes?

 

[Cruel Beans]

Meanwhile, I'm more than happy to hold the fort while Avellone fantasizes that he is helping teams by getting them in trouble with publishers. Captain Stretch Goal to the rescue, once he's done saving you, you'll be living in a tent.

Nothing Chris has said here suggests he harbors a hero complex, or that he is doing this for any other reason then he wants to set the record straight and show Obsidian upper management for the hacks they are.

Nobody shares your unusually doom and gloom opinions on all this, but no need to invent things to explain your stark difference of opinion.

 

[Quillon]

once he's done saving you, you'll be living in a tent.

That possibility is concerning yeah.

Chances are nothing will change at Obs upper management; as in no one will quit nor change positions nor Obs will get bought out so here's hoping they'll just stay out of real developers way and count their money silently in the corner.

Fabulously optimistic scenario is upper management's disappearing somehow with the rest of the studio intact

Option C is Chris eventually, successfully dismantling Obs upper management, along with the company with 170+ devs out of work.

I wonder if he has a contingency plan for this? or does he think that "I'm right so I won't be responsible for whatever's gonna happen to anyone"? ... He doesn't really need a win here as he told us he has good amount of work/money[insert, the man - the killers], life is great etc. What's driving you Chris? VENGEANCE!? :D

 

[Sensuki]

Meanwhile, I'm more than happy to hold the fort while Avellone fantasizes that he is helping teams by getting them in trouble with publishers. Captain Stretch Goal to the rescue, once he's done saving you, you'll be living in a tent.

q_q IHaveHugeNick

I don't think he fantasizes about it at all. A lot of this seems pre-meditated and in order for him to come out and say these things he would have had to consider the fact that an attack on the company like this *may* put him at odds with a sizeable number of the company workforce. I doubt that A.D. is happy about him doing this, for instance.

If someone was doing it to another company, ie. inXile or HBS, you'd likely be egging on the whistleblower. Why are you mad about it being Obsidian?

 

[Fairfax]

ust wanted to point out this excerpt is from my book, Gamers at Work, which RPG Codex reviewed HERE. I was wondering when someone was going to pull this quote, and saw it reshared at NMA without attribution.

My apologies for not giving credit. Good work on the book, by the way.

I've never worked with Feargus except on his chapter, which was one of the first three chapters (hence its brevity) that helped sell the book proposal. Feargus had nothing but positive things to say about Chris in 2010, so I'm flummoxed by the decline in their relationship since then.

At the time, Feargus was thinking deeply about some of the same management issues that Chris has talked about:

Since I've been following this story, I've seen some people claim that Feargus is myopic with regard to fault for quality issues. In my interview with him, he was more inclined to look closely at what the company as a whole was doing wrong rather than point the finger at publishers:

To me, this doesn't sound like someone who would not be receptive to the criticism that Chris has expressed publicly, but unfortunately, I haven't had the opportunity to speak with Feargus in 6-8 years.

In the IGN interview I linked earlier, at some point Feargus was talking about contracts and dealing with publishers and said "do as I say, not as I do". These quotes from the book seem to be examples of that.

And the bad publishers narrative was something he pushed much more often after 2010, especially around the Kickstarter period. He's done several interviews where he'll say "at the end of the day, it's my responsibility, I can't blame the publishers", and few moments later he'll call them short-sighted, say they don't understand RPGs, say they handled things poorly, imply they didn't give enough money, complain about interference with the game's design, etc.

is there a faceless Nihilus portrait or art piece? Don't think I've ever seen one

Yes, including the game's own cover:

slightly related: I feel like doing ravager from lego bricks. Are there materials showing this ship in a state that would help me?
All I can find are pictures like this:

Not sure if memory failed me but I remember closer up takes with whole parts of the ship missing as opposed to fire-blacked patches. This ship doesnt look like something about to fall apart if not held together by force.

It's missing a few parts in the game itself:


I hope these pictures can help:

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Meanwhile, I'm more than happy to hold the fort while Avellone fantasizes that he is helping teams by getting them in trouble with publishers. Captain Stretch Goal to the rescue, once he's done saving you, you'll be living in a tent.

Nothing Chris has said here suggests he harbors a hero complex.

He keeps writing entire self-congratulatory paragraphs about how he was always standing up for the little guy in the trenches, while his actual actions are doing anything but. I don't know what complex it is, but it's some complex all right.

or that he is doing this for any other reason then he wants to set the record straight

What records does he set straight exactly by leaking Indiana info, a game he never even worked on? What records does he set straight by leaking info that some people are planning to quit, presumably before even asking them if it's okay to leak it?

Nobody shares your unusually doom and gloom opinions on all this

That's not my problem if the very sight of internet celebrity makes people wet their panties to such an extent, they cannot see that his actions are inconsistent what he is trying to preach.

 

[Kleptocratic debt serf]

What I find befuddling, is how MCA's information is being questioned on a number of other gaming forums/sites...

So, Josh didn't quit, because he was threatened to be fired, and potentially get a better deal in terms of severance payment. That totally makes sense.
Just one more thing Chris says that doesn't make sense.

This dude either belongs on a short bus or is being purposefully obtuse. It would stand to reason that Josh threatened to tender his resignation as a means of leverage. Also, that Feargus would threaten dismissal as a(poorly chosen) motivator/form of coercion without actually intending to follow through.

While some of you are praising this guy for what he is doing, even if much of what he says is close to delusional, and now he even decided to go lower, and talk about personal and professional issues of other people, on an interview, as if he has any moral of speaking for and about them, I take my hat off to the guys at Obsidian, who aren't wasting their time feeding this miserable guy. If any of you finds themselves owning a company in the near future, and having to employ and fire people, you will meet people like Chris, and hear stories like his, especially after they leave you. They have their truth, that rarely has much in common with the actual truth, but it's easier to blame things on the incompetence and malice of others, than admitting your own.

I adore this kind of blind reverence to some utterly naïve and redundant terminology and empty echo-chamber remarks. Enjoy the cult camaraderie and amity, all shrouded in esoteric compliance and mutual understanding...

^ That last one is great, considering that dude can't stop slobbing OBS knob. Irony at it's finest.

I honestly had no idea any person could be more invested in the company, Obsidian, and it's owners(who by their nature don't do shit - and cannot be conflated with the likes of Walt Fucking Disney or Henry Fucking Ford) than the actual developers. Truly, I thought MCA's scorched earth would be more appreciated in the "trenches" across most online communities where these games are enjoyed and valued vice the mixed response it has received. Most devs are going to be to scared to rock the boat, MCA's got a pair to stand up to the status quo.

 

[FreeKaner]

Finally there is a tangible interview outside of Codex to spread the fires.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

I don't think he fantasizes about it at all. A lot of this seems pre-meditated

I think you mean pre-medicated.

 

[Roguey]

Joined today http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?members/jasonfader.25180/
Refresher: New Vegas producer, Backspace guy, recently left the shambles of the System Shock reboot. Things about to heat up?

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

You gotta be the change you want to see.

This.

Joined today http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?members/jasonfader.25180/
Refresher: New Vegas producer. Things about to heat up?

TechRaptor: Was there similar cost padding or money manipulation going on in the development of Fallout: New Vegas and other games?
Chris Avellone: I’ll have to leave it to the parties hit with the cost adjustments to speak up to it (they’re definitely aware of it and weren’t happy about it). If they do, I will back them with what I know and they can count on my testimony.

 

[Infinitron]

Avellone was right. They are selling the game using Obsidian Entertainment name, but the IP is owned by Dark Rock Industries, not Obsidian.

Not new information: http://www.rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=10578

 

[Sentinel]

Joined today http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?members/jasonfader.25180/
Refresher: New Vegas producer, Backspace guy, recently left the shambles of the System Shock reboot. Things about to heat up?

No evidence that it's him.

 

[Rake]

I wonder if he has a contingency plan for this? or does he think that "I'm right so I won't be responsible for whatever's gonna happen to anyone"?

Relax, it's all part of his masterplan. The day obsidian closses it's doors, is the day Avellone will open his own game company and have an easy time hiring all the jobless devs at obsidian

 

[Chris Avellone]

Why did Chris end up reporting directly to Feargus? Was there a promotion or a restructuring? Chris, do you think you would still be at Obsidian if you hadn't been assigned directly subordinate to him?

The refusal to pay back of employees happened before reporting directly to Feargus, and the other revelation on what had happened at Interplay didn't happen b/c of the direct report, so I wouldn't have stayed in the long-term, no.

Both the refusal to pay back employees and the Interplay revelation showcased Feargus's fundamental problems with ethics and trying to ascertain what was actually true in what Feargus told to us on a daily basis. He might not even be malicious or intentionally withholding info, you just wouldn't know if it was the truth - even documenting things via email could prove useless if he changed his mind and didn't tell you, but a paper trail was a start, especially if seen by someone outside the conversation (see below).

Reporting to him definitely sped the departure up, however, as it added to the problems already in place and reinforced them.

I don't think anyone could tell you the clear owner and hierarchy responsibilities at Obsidian, even the owners themselves beyond the fact Feargus is CEO/CFO. I didn't have much clarity on my own position, even after asking several times, and even proposing a list of responsibilities. This may have changed since I left, but it wasn't the case at the time.

While the owners could perhaps vote against something happening, or vote for something happening, this wasn't done very often in practice (owner meetings weren't run as official meetings, and as mentioned before, Parker and Darren would usually agree with Feargus, so speaking up was largely useless and just got others angry at you for challenging a position).

Feargus's resistance to employees being paid back, however, I felt strongly enough about to speak up about, more than once, because I wasn't even given a reason WHY we weren't paying them back beyond "we didn't promise we'd pay them back," which wasn't an acceptable answer. This information is documented.

In fact, all of these topics were in emails at Obsidian, so it's on record (the employee resistance to payback was a thread all the owners were a part of, and so was the 'hiring-the-children' thread, and Feargus's wife on the payroll, my revelation about my mother's condition, and more). It's documented there, and I doubt Obsidian would delete those (as that makes a bad situation worse). Some of those issues continued after the departure as well (the 401K mess-ups, the mess-up with expenses with HR, the refusal to honor existing contracts, etc.).

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

Avellone was right. They are selling the game using Obsidian Entertainment name, but the IP is owned by Dark Rock Industries, not Obsidian.

Not new information: http://www.rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=10578

Thanks!

 

[Roguey]

No evidence that it's him.

Well the Codex has been pretty good at verifying identities and properly assigning developer tags.

Though it's been terribly amusing to see people question elsewhere if this really is in fact Avellone after this morning's drama.

 

[Chris Avellone]

This dude either belongs on a short bus or is being purposefully obtuse. It would stand to reason that Josh threatened to tender his resignation as a means of leverage. Also, that Feargus would threaten dismissal as a(poorly chosen) motivator/form of coercion without actually intending to follow through.

The threat to fire both Josh and Adam was not at the same time Josh submitted each resignation, they all happened at different times, and as such, I would hesitate to link them directly (although they may have contributed to the overall feeling of how one felt being in the studio).

I do know the small % of royalties for PoE1 given to Josh and Adam were done partially to prevent them from wanting to leave (no other team member got the same treatment) - while I think both Josh and Adam deserved it, I only agreed with it if more people shared in the success - and again, I don't mean the owners (who as I've said, I don't think deserved anything). There were a lot of people on PoE1 doing a great job, and the other projects (Armored Warfare), even if not directly contributing to PoE1, were still keeping the company afloat so Eternity could be done, so they deserved to be thanked, too. This was met with resistance, but may have been changed once I left.

Again, I wasn't aware Josh and Adam had been threatened with being fired, and I only heard about Josh's resignation after the fact (there were conversations involving him and how he would leave).

 

[Sentinel]

Roguey, Infinitron, do you know what positions Boyarsky and Tim Cain hold in Project Indiana? Is Boyarsky art director/writer? I'm curious because his art is exceptionally good.

 

[felipepepe]

A thread with loads of candid posts by MCA and it still degenerates into antisemitism, communism and Gamergate. Codex, Codex never changes.

Blame the "upper management". If you start to discuss something that's already covered in another thread your posts are moved or merged into a mega-thread, but GG and Anti-SJW bullshit? Oh, that can go anywhere - despite the fact that we have a sub-forum just for that.

This isn't "freedom of speech" and "no moderation", this is being stupid and try-hard. Like we're intentionally trying to look like the cesspool that people accuse us of being.

 

[Mustawd]

He keeps writing entire self-congratulatory paragraphs about how he was always standing up for the little guy in the trenches, while his actual actions are doing anything but. I don't know what complex it is, but it's some complex all right

Talking about it in this way puts all the attention and any criticism squarely on him. All the while exposing a lot of well known frustrations with how the company is being run as well as exposing some nasty details that might not be well known. Is it awkward to see it being aired like this in public? Sure. Does it make some people uncomfortable that he's doing it on the codex? Sure.

I'm not saying he's perfect or that I agree that everything he's disclosed is for some noble purpose. However, a lot of the things he's talked about can lead to positive change at Obsidian, if only through public pressure inside and outside the company. If had NOT said anything these practices would just continue as business as usual.

What records does he set straight exactly by leaking Indiana info, a game he never even worked on? What records does he set straight by leaking info that some people are planning to quit, presumably before even asking them if it's okay to leak it?

What info are you referring to? When he answered my question about Project Indiana he did not mention any details.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

The off-topic posts didn't constipate this thread nearly as much as that other dude with Nihillus avatar. Jesus that was infurating.

 

[Infinitron]

Roguey, Infinitron, do you know what positions Boyarsky and Tim Cain hold in Project Indiana? Is Boyarsky art director/writer? I'm curious because his art is exceptionally good.

Tim Cain - Game Director, Leonard Boyarsky - Lead Designer. Those are their titles, at least - it wouldn't surprise me if in practice they function as Co-Directors.

There's probably a separate art director (though I'm sure Leonard supervises him)

 

[Chris Avellone]

Nothing Chris has said here suggests he harbors a hero complex, or that he is doing this for any other reason then he wants to set the record straight and show Obsidian upper management for the hacks they are.

I wouldn't use the word "hacks," but upper management needs to better, yes. While Obsidian has survived and had successes, it has had a number of bleak times, and it's nothing compared to what the company could have been. No one had to be laid off. Projects didn't have to be cancelled. We didn't have to alienate publishers. We could have had better spending and feedback practices.

A lot of these issues are known and agreed on by people there and who left (again, I don't think everything on Glassdoor is true, but there's a lot of common elements among the reviews, especially over the past year). That said, I'd doubt anyone would go on record, because while I can take hits, other people in the industry can't if they want to keep their jobs, either at Obsidian or elsewhere and they did sign NDAs.

A number of these people also like Obsidian, so if they recognize the issues, their loyalty to the company is more important - my only response to that is the company isn't the owners, and addressing a lot of these problems would be better for employees. Reviews, feedback, doing away with obvious or concealed nepotism, and knowing where the money is going (esp. around review time when you're told, "well, we can't do much with raises this year"), all of these are good things.

And while relating my experience may not cause any meaningful change, my hope is that there's a change of behavior in upper management, if only to defend themselves that they would never act this way - and also, maybe they would take steps before doing things that reinforce or remind people of this behavior ("Maybe after what happened, I shouldn't hire my producer buddy beer friend or put my spouse on the payroll").

This won't wipe out the history, but I firmly believe it would be better for people at the studio if that was the case. Taking action to fix things is a better apology than saying "I'm sorry" with no change.