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Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

Piotrovitz

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Holy fuck, those Saplings in the temple. On my first run I had to reload dozen times before realizing you can lure them out to no-magic area.

Are there any good modern weapons for mid-game gadgeteer whose omnigun still sucks?
Blundebuss and power gloves seem to look good on paper.
 

PorkBarrellGuy

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>get to marten's bluff
>first encounter is... 5 deathsting apuses
>get TPK'd in 2 turns

This is the first time I've ever ragequit Wiz8. I mean, I'll probably come back to it, but I need to cool off because WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT SHIT.
 
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theSavant

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I wonder if it's really worth to do a party less than six? And instead doing a party of 2 or 4...

After my 3-men and 4-men party attempts I'm still not sure. I mean - leveling up is slightly faster, but in return combat also feels slightly longer, because you can't attack very often. And of curse the level scaling of enemies destroys the satisfaction you get from fast leveling up. So in the end it's more of a hassle?
 

Piotrovitz

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Given the expotential xp requirements I think it isn't worth it, unless you want to gimp yourself to have some challenge.
It's better to have full party of six on, say, lvl 10, than party of four on lvl 12-13
 
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theSavant

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Enough of the shitty Dwarven Priests. Now I created a Faerie Priest and gave the character some points to Mace&Flail (so it has a simple K.O. Mace as starting equipment).

Started the game: Faerie has Mace, but unequipped, because it can't equip the Mace...


:abyssgazer:


That's exactly the thing... If the game restricts me so harsh in races, classes and equipment - then just remove the fucking option Mace&Flails altogether from the character creation screen. Just show me the damn Daggers and Staffs only... The game suggests flexibility and countless possibilities in creating your characters, but once you start the game you find out that 80% of these "countless possibilities" just don't work. What remains is a very narrow and limited area of possibilities.

When I made the Dwarven Priests they could at least equip the fucking Maces...

PS:
This time I couldn't equip the Mace because of the Race (Faerie)
Last time I ranted I couldn't equip another Mace (simple Warhammer of Mace category) because it was "simply" not meant to be equipped by Priests
 
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theSavant

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Why am I focusing so much on maces: I kinda like these K.O. weapons. I was inspired by the Arnika Patrols, who has equipped Maces and often K.O. the Higardi Raiders. However, "Priest" is the only class which gives you Maces as a starting equipment. And if you want to skill Mace&Flail it would be best, if you had these weapons right from the start. Every other class starts with Swords, Daggers, Staffs.

Only thing I could do is the following:
- 3 Priests (for backrow)
- 3 Melee attackers (for frontrow - Lord or Fighter).

-> And then remove the 3 Maces from the Priests and give 'em to the frontrow fighters.
Funny how you must think "around the corner" just to have Mace fighters right from the start...
 
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theSavant

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Besides I got a question about Multi-Classing (if someone knows):

I'd like to have a frontrow which can use Maces as weapon, but also uses Stealth (instead of Shields).
- Only Fighter/Lord/Valkyrie can use most Mace weapons. Disadvantage: have no Stealth
- Only Rogue/Ninja/Monk have Stealth. Disadvantage: can't use most Mace weapons

Can I start with a class having Stealth - train it a bit, and then change to a Fighter class?

And if "yes", next questions are:
- Will I lose the Stealth ability afterwards?
- If I don't lose Stealth afterwards, but have only trained it to 50 or so - will I lose the ability to train it? Or can I still train it to 100, after I've changed to a fighter?
 

Piotrovitz

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You won't lose it, but you won't be able to raise it on level ups either. If you're bent on this idea, you can always powertrain stealth to 100 on mudcrabs, though this seems to be boring as fuck.

Why are you so pissed off at item restrictions? Haven't you played any other crpgs?
Wiz 8 gives you dozens of workable party combinations, but there are some limits to it's generosity. If you come up with some wacky builds, like fearie priest with maces, don't be suprised you'll hit a brick wall somewhere.
 
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theSavant

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I'm pissed off
- because the game suggests flexibility and countless options in character creation - but 80% does not work because of restrictions you can't even see when creating the characters
- When you realize all these restrictions, you'll eventually find out, that the only "choice" is to create the same old stereotypical characters

If you claim that these other builds are wacky then why are they even in there? Where is even the logic in giving Priests a Mace as a starting equipment if they can't equip it? And why can't I have a Fighter who has a Mace as a starting equipment? Why do they restrict me in that Valkyries can only be female, but don't restrict me in removing the pointless "Mace&Flail" skill from the Faerie->Priest combination in the creation screen? Why did they not remove the "Mace&Flail" from this combination, if it doesn't even work out of the box - I mean, they have removed the Sword/Axe skill from this combination - so why didn't they remove Mace&Flail from it as well?
That's inconsistent, misleading, and looks as if the game designers mixed equipment, professions and races in a nonsensical way.

Regarding the question if I haven't played any "cRPGs": The more I look at it, the more I think they should have left it at stereotypical cRPGs design, like "Elf Rangers, Dwarf fighters, etc.", because mostly everything else is more of an illusion (and wacky) than usable.
 
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Piotrovitz

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Dude, restrictions in Wiz 8 make sense and are in line with common sense. Looking at faerie char portraits, mace is probably the last thing any normal player would think to give them. Fuck, even the race description states something about equippable items weight limit, so you can't say the game is unfair or misleading. They didn't remove mace skill, because Priest of any other race can wield most of them, including endgame diamond eyes and vampire chain.

Game is very forgiving and beatable with shitload of different party builds - you don't have to stick to stereotypes.
Your level of complaining is just pure autism : |
 
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theSavant

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Ok, so in order to find a workaround for my Priest/Mace/Fighter thing, I made something completely different now (multiclassed):


-> I made a party of 3 Priests to get Maces right at the start of the game (Level 1)
-> Next Level up (Level 2): Changed all to Rogues to acquire Stealth Skill
-> Next Level up (Level 3): Changed all to Lords to be able to equip most other Maces in the game


I used Humans for that, and distributed the points so that I could do all class changes at the early levels. Very interesting experience actually.........


Something important to note however:

I did not lose the "Stealth" skill when changing from Rogue to Lord, BUT I couldn't train Stealth any further. The Stealth skill remained stalled at the exact level it was before changing to Lord. No matter how much I tried to train it. So I guess the only possible way to have a "stealthy" Lord is, to skill "Stealth" sufficiently *before* becoming a Lord. Still... the multiclassing offers some possibilities I didn't think much about before...
 
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theSavant

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So I continued with my test party (3 Lords)...

I know every experienced player knows it, but WHY the fuck can't I wield 2 One-Handed-Maces??? I mean it's called "Dual Weapons" right? Why even call it Dual weapons if I can only put shit weakling weapons in the second slot? (same issue with Samurais). I believe there's a fix out for that, but what the hell were the game designers thinking? That's just utter B.S.

Other than that Lord would be a pretty good class. If you train Stealth (before as a Rogue) to 100 you're almost untouchable. And then as a Lord you could also train Shield easily to 100. Training shield is actually very easy, because you can just put all on defend, activate continuous mode and can go away. Because of the Lords constantly regenerating HP you don't even neet to use potions or spells to heal. Make a pause, drink a coffee, come back later. Also the Divinity Spellbook is actually not that bad... allowing you to Web enemies (similar to Paralyze) and Mass Insta-Death spell in the end... If every Lord in your party cast the latter one, I can imagine the Rapax Courtyard clearing up very quickly...

Btw. now I remember once again know why a party of 4 may be an option: because 4 is the maximum number you can have in a "frontrow" (on the tactical screen 1 left, 1 right, 2 middle), and where all can attack at the same time - even with short weapons.
 
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theSavant

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Hmmm... something else to argue about: I got tired of the constant mouse clicking and tried to switch to keyboard controls. Unfortunately they don't work out very well...
I was always impressed how quickly actions were applied in Elminage Gothic - but it's just not there in Wiz8. Granted, this was probably not as easy to implement in a 3d space instead of a clean 2d popup space - but still something which could have been enhanced.

Lots of things which could have been made in a Wizardry 9 :(
 
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theSavant

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Btw. now I remember once again know why a party of 4 may be an option: because 4 is the maximum number you can have in a "frontrow" (on the tactical screen 1 left, 1 right, 2 middle), and where all can attack at the same time - even with short weapons.

I must correct myself. It is possible to have all 6 members in a "frontrow" (like in many older RPGs where you haven't got any tactical rows): 2 on the left, 2 in the middle, 2 on the right. They can all reach enemies in the front with short weapons. And likewise they can all be attacked from enemies in the front.

It just looks a bit misleading on the tactical screen because the ones on the left/right look like "one is further in the front and the other further in the back", but they seem both "equal" in position. This "all in frontrow" might come in handy with a pure fighter/lord/rogue/samurai party.
 
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After dropping Wiz5 out of boredom I've blasted through Wizardry IV in a week.

Hold your horses, it was not original '87 one but Japanese '99 remake from New Age of Llylgamyn compilation for PSX - it has free automap and quick saves that reduce difficulty a lot. Not all text are available in English since devs added item/monster/spell description and didn't bother to translate it from moonrunes but fortunatley they kept original script intact so it's not like you are missing anything from source material.

Game was INCREDIBLE, so fresh and unique, it's like pre-Megaten, released the same year that original Megami Tensei for NES. Authors seem to share similar point of view since they introduced very SMT-ish alternative version (demons are regular party member, can be controlled, healed, used beyond battless etc. + there are far more slots for them - unfortunately arranged version is untranslated). Nah, even famous hidden 11 level's new design shares similarities with that spiritual world which is visited by SMT1 protagonist after nuclear apocalypse done by Thor (not only visuals, music too!).

Gameplay wise - I don't consider it rpg. It's moar like utra-hardcore puzzle game with strong RNG factor. Puzzles are hard (not harder than in Wiz7 though), wandering through mazes like Cosmic Cube is hard but battles are not until endgame when you meet so many dudes casting instakill spells. Find correct pentagram, choose proper set of demons and prey for fucking enemy Lakanito to fail. Apart from that, it's not that battles are hard, it's the lack of q-saves in '87 version and punishment for reloading (load game = resurrection of enemies).

Even if you want to face original challange, try this, just avoid using saves and automap and enjoy much better graphics, art (I love those Egyptian themes for Dreampainter's Ziggurat) and addition of excellent sound and music.
 
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theSavant

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I found additional issues in Wizardry 8. Possibly broken?

Starting point:
Dwarf has +12 Fire Resistance, additionally has Natural Damage Resistance
Gnome: +10 Earth Resistance, +10 Mental Resistance
Hobbit: +10 Earth Resistance

Ok, so I make all of them Fighters:
Giving the Dwarf Fighter 10 points in Vitality -> Fire Resistance grows to +14
Giving the Gnome Fighter 10 points in Vitality -> Mental Resistance grows to +12, BUT Earth Resistance remains at +10
Giving the Hobbit Fighter 10 points in Vitality -> Earth Resistance grows to +12

First WTF: broken attribute for Gnome?
Second WTF: any other Race (Elf, Rawulf, Lizard, Dracon, Felpur etc.) does NOT increase ANY magical resistancy when giving points to Vitality. Wtf??
 
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theSavant

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Ok, so I looked into the manual once again. At least they mentioned for these 3 Races, that these Magic Resistances "depend on Vitality". They still neglected the entry about Earth Resistance for the Gnome (not even listed in the manual). Maybe they just forgot it when they had to publish the game in a hurry...

... restrictions over restrictions, exceptions to restrictions, restrictions to exceptions, exceptions to exceptions... :(

The annoying things is, that you can't see this information on the character creation screen: you rightclick on the race and only get that unimportant information text, but no mentioning, that these resistances raise with Vitality. But once again maybe they just forgot it, when they published the game in a hurry...
 
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theSavant

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I'll probably do a good old "Pure Fighter Party". Probably 6 Dwarf fighters is the best choice. Also I will again try to maximize Vitality and Piety very early, to get Iron Skin and Iron Will. This should help against magical attacks.

I'll also focuse on Mace&Flail once again, so I get the "Knockout Enemy" Bonus from Fighter profession and the "5% K.O." of most mace weapons.


Edit for the record:
- Started out with 6 Dwarfs
- Distributed points like that: 58 in Str, 76 in Pie, 76 in Vit, 50 in Dex
- Starting profession was Priests (so I get Maces at the beginning).
- At Level 2 I changed all to Fighter profession
- At Level 9 I reached Iron Skin and Iron Will

- The coffin in the Lower Monastery with noxious fumes works perfectly to train "Iron Will"
- I have not found a good way to train "Iron Skin". Some say that the best way is the 3 bugs behind the locked door in the Lower Monastery, and get yourself bitten. But they also say it takes veeeery long to train. Maybe these ghosts in the cellar of the "Brotherhood house" in Arnika are a better choice? Unfortunately I have killed the ghosts already so I can't test anymore, but I remember their attack was very weak. Maybe they are better than the bugs, because the bugs fall at some point unconscious. Also I noticed you should remove shields, or the Shield skill rises more than Iron Skin.
 
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aweigh

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Just wanted to make sure people know the auto-map in Wiz 4 port is optional. The PS ports are the best versions of Wiz 1-5, with great graphics and awesome orchestral soundtracks.
 
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theSavant

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Somebody here said that the animation speedmod is an illusion because the animation still waits for the sound which is played normal. I still want to know if this is true.

The animation speed mod really helps in combat speed. I'd say it's as essential as WizFast.exe, because you really notice the difference. Luckily both combine well together. But there is still room left. Some things still take longer than they should. Maybe it's exactly what you mentioned: some actions do also wait for the sound file to finish? Maybe some of the combat sound files are still too long.

I noticed this on 2 occasions:
- when a character got beaten up heavily he said something like "I'm getting beaten all up over here", and the enemy attack seemed to pause until he had spoken the full phrase
- One of my characters had a bullwhip and his attack took 2 full seconds, and only afterwards my other characters could attack again. The delay was really noticeable!


Especially the latter one is interesting, because the attack took so long:
the 1st second was quiet, only the attack symbol blinking yellow
the 2nd second you could hear the whip *snap*

I think that they consciously made the attack so long, so it implies "lunging the whip and then *snap*". However this does indeed indicate that some actions are also dependent on sound length (and not only animation length). These sound files could probably speeded up as well (although this might result in comically or cartoonish sounds). Or replaced. Or removed altogether (though this might result in errors). I wonder if someone has already tried that....

:philosoraptor:
 
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Doctor Sbaitso

SO, TELL ME ABOUT YOUR PROBLEMS.
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Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands
Sounds like you are the man for the job. Go ahead and let us know how it works. You could be a hero.
 

Leitz

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Somebody here said that the animation speedmod is an illusion because the animation still waits for the sound which is played normal. I still want to know if this is true.

The animation speed mod really helps in combat speed. I'd say it's as essential as WizFast.exe, because you really notice the difference. Luckily both combine well together. But there is still room left. ......

Thanks for the reply. I guess now I should install this mod aswell. I never bothered because I thought it's only theory.
 
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theSavant

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Regarding the issue about sound files... I played around a bit with the Cosmic Forge Editor, and saw that most sound files cannot be replaced per se. There is a SLF-file browser which lists all sounds in the game, but only for extraction - not import. There is a section in the tutorial on how to add new voices to a new NPC, but very tedious. Also this would only work for characters voices and not weapon sounds.
That said - even if it would work, it wouldn't solve the problem, because my assumption about the "2-second"-Bullwhip sound file was wrong. I extracted the Bullwhip sound file and it was just 0,5 seconds long. No idea where that huge delay in the attack comes from. Maybe something hardcoded for that weapon.
One thing that was possible to modify, was changing the "Weapon Matter" (material?) of the Bullwhip to "Dagger(Stabbed)", and "Attack Type" to "Thrust". Afterwards in the game the attack was slightly faster (albeit with the Dagger Attack sound - though it still remained a Mace&Flail weapon). Afterwards it was faster than the default Bullwhip attack, but not noticeably faster than Swords, Staffs or Kicks. So if you are not focusing on Bullwhips only, it actually doesn't matter much.

Another thing I noticed was, that I could change the sounds from enemies (Monster Editor), by clicking on the small Script icon for the Green Slime: there were approximately 4 different sounds available for each action (attack, secondary attack, special attack, dodge, die, move). I removed all SOUND_FRAME_entries and only left a single one for the attack (something like a "whip" sound, which was a very sharp and fast). But again it didn't change much or anything at all in combat speed.

The most annoying thing still remains, which is that there is a considerable pause when turns change between one enemy and the next. I guess this cannot be solved anymore.
 

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