RPG Codex Interview: Chris Avellone on Pillars Cut Content, Game Development Hierarchies and More

[Infinitron]

This isn't really about Josh. I'm not sure it's even really about Pillars of Eternity. Chris Avellone doesn't get thrown out of a company over one game. It must be something more far-reaching than that.

 

[Helton]

XDD

 

[SausageInYourFace]

Maybe that explains why Josh became narrative lead even though that seems like a bit of a misplacement on first glance? I mean, if the narrative production was so troubled last time and Josh is usually the go-to 'getting shit done guy'? Then again, Chris said the problem still persists.

 

[Quillon]

I strongly suspect PoE2’s lead would take responsibility for going over budget vs. blaming someone who edited his work as soon as he was aware of his boss’s requests, especially if that person editing his own work was an owner and technically their superior.

Which I think has happened already? I remember it mentioned, though I don't remember where, that Josh asked for additional funding.

He said they increased area budget, they needed more maps for exploration etc. IIRC, nothing to do with word count; which never was an issue that came up/implied or whatever until MCA brought it up now, must be from his buddies from Deadfire development team. ed: "according to localizers"

Shots fired anyway but I doubt Josh would respond.

 

[Sensuki]

Maybe that explains why Josh became narrative lead even though that seems like a bit of a misplacement on first glance? I mean, if the narrative production was so troubled last time and Josh is usually the go-to 'getting shit done guy'? Then again, Chris said the problem still persists.

That's because they have been copy-pasting processes, and project milestones from project to project, broken or not.

They did repeal the poe1 story process however, because it failed hard.

 

[Prime Junta]

How fucking hard is it to get people to stick to a word count FFS? I've written on commission and if I'm given a word count then that's the number of words I write.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Chris Avellone doesn't get thrown out of a company over one game. It must be something more far-reaching than that.

Do you really believe he was terminated? The sudden cutoff of his health insurance is not dispositive and considering Obsidian's deal with Paradox on Tyranny it's hard to imagine them giving him the boot. I suspect if he was terminated, it probably had more to do with the other owners wanting to create a situation where they wouldn't need to buy him out, or would have some leverage when negotiating the NDA/noncompete.

How fucking hard is it to get people to stick to a word count FFS? I've written on commission and if I'm given a word count then that's the number of words I write.

It's different when you have more creative investment in the project. I rarely go over the word count either when I'm ghostwriting, but it's a struggle keeping myself contained when the subject is something I give a fuck about. I imagine writing your own fiction is like that but more so.

 

[AwesomeButton]

This isn't really about Josh. I'm not sure it's even really about Pillars of Eternity. Chris Avellone doesn't get thrown out of a company over one game. It must be something more far-reaching than that.

Same thing I was thinking. It's obvious, even from the fact that they would communicate publicly, that there is something on a more personal level which has started long before PoE.

He said they increased area budget, they needed more maps for exploration etc. IIRC, nothing to do with word count; which never was an issue that came up/implied or whatever until MCA brought it up now, must be from his buddies from Deadfire development team.

Shots fired anyway but I doubt Josh would respond.

Who said it's about word count? I just gave an example of scope increase which has been observed and the budget has been adjusted. That's the right way to avert overtime or worse - crunch. The shitty way to handle it is to call up the team and say stuff like - "guys, we're sorry but we have to stick to it", "do our best", "be a team", "be professional", "you will be compensated for the extra time"...

 

[J_C]

Jesus sweet fucking Christ. Just read through the thread and I'm clearly flabbergasted. Never seen it this coming, and I still can't believe Chris opened the floodgates this badly. What should an Obsidian and Chris Avellone fanboy like myself should do after this?

On the one hand, if all this is true, than the upper-management of Obsidian should be ashamed of themselves, and I don't want to support their work. On the other hand, I like Obsidian's games, and the people that work there deserves recognition, and I want to support them. Especially now, since Cain and Boyarsky could be working on something great.

And on the third hand, seeing how Eric responded to one of MCA's claim, I don't know if we have the full picture here. I remember John Romero's recollection of his departure from ID Software, and how it wasn't reflected on reality. Not saying that MCA is not telling the truth here, but it would be great to hear both sides, I think everyone would deserve that before we roll out judgment.

As for Chris, whatever happened, I hope you can put it behind you, and enjoy life, enjoy work. I wish your family the best too, because it seems they had their fair share of hardships.

 

[AwesomeButton]

The universal Upper management motto is - take as much as you can get away with from your workforce, pay as little as you can get away with. So, getting ashamed of themselves, I don't imagine that happening

It's exactly cheek like this that has kept them going all these years. "Life is a flat circle..."

Some very naive people here. Bless you all

 

[Junmarko]

How fucking hard is it to get people to stick to a word count FFS? I've written on commission and if I'm given a word count then that's the number of words I write.

What themes do you write about, outside fairytale communist utopias?

 

[Urthor]

If PoE2 word-count is double AND they've voiced all these lines, then Obsidian's clearly decided that this game is something to bet the house on and they've gone long. Which is interesting because it's the opposite of what Jason Schrier's book said, that PoE1 was largely funded on Kickstarter money and was tided over with Fergus throwing in a bit extra at the end after they ran out of dough in October, plus apparently stole Paradox's money and borrowed devs from Tyranny.

Which means if PoE2 flops then Obsidian has a real issue on its hands. Maybe Sawyer leaving is not something as innocent as it seems.

Obligatory Tim Cain was not programming Unity tools during PoE development lul.

Also, you're all forgetting the issue wasn't just the Durance word count, it's that the word count was tied to slides and items. Which none of the other companions had planned for them so yeah.

 

[Quillon]

Who said it's about word count? I just gave an example of scope increase which has been observed and the budget has been adjusted. That's the right way to avert overtime or worse - crunch. The shitty way to handle it is to call up the team and say stuff like - "guys, we're sorry but we have to stick to it", "do our best", "be professional", "be a team", "be professional", "you will be compensated for the extra time"...

Nvm then.

Anyway, just fully (mis)understood what MCA said that he strongly suspects Josh blamed - his technically superior - MCA instead of owning up going over budget, according to MCA

 

[AwesomeButton]

If PoE2 word-count is double AND they've voiced all these lines, then Obsidian's clearly decided that this game is something to bet the house on and they've gone long. Which is interesting because it's the opposite of what Jason Schrier's book said, that PoE1 was largely funded on Kickstarter money and was tided over with Fergus throwing in a bit extra at the end after they ran out of dough in October, plus apparently stole Paradox's money and borrowed devs from Tyranny.

Which means if PoE2 flops then Obsidian has a real issue on its hands. Maybe Sawyer leaving is not something as innocent as it seems.

Also, obligatory Tim Cain was not programming Unity tools during PoE development lul.

I am willing to bet on PoE2 becoming a hit and turning big profit for Obsidian.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Who said it's about word count? I just gave an example of scope increase which has been observed and the budget has been adjusted. That's the right way to avert overtime or worse - crunch. The shitty way to handle it is to call up the team and say stuff like - "guys, we're sorry but we have to stick to it", "do our best", "be professional", "be a team", "be professional", "you will be compensated for the extra time"...

Nvm then.

Anyway, just fully understood what MCA said that Josh blamed - his technically superior - MCA instead of owning up going over budget, according to MCA

I thought MCA was talking about Eric who allegedly promised to do extra work to get Durance and GM as concieved by MCA into the game, but then didn't have the time to do it, and instead basically went "Chris wrote too much" in front of Josh, and then in front of the other non-MCA company owners.

That's what I understood from Chris' last post.

 

[Urthor]

Honestly PoE2 sales are still a complete mystery, it's super hard to project for because the PC independent game market in 2015 was much, much less clogged than in 2018, and PoE1 got messiah status treatment in review scores and attention from mainstream game journalism etc. Also Steamspy is borked.

They could be twice PoE1, it could be half PoE1, I'd be sweating bullets if I gave obsidian 1k for Figstarter or worked for them.

 

[Quillon]

I thought MCA was talking about Eric who allegedly promised to do extra work to get Durance and GM as concieved by MCA into the game, but then didn't have the time to do it, and instead basically went "Chris wrote too much" in front of Josh, and then in front of the other non-MCA company owners.

from this?

I strongly suspect PoE2’s lead would take responsibility for going over budget vs. blaming someone who edited his work as soon as he was aware of his boss’s requests, especially if that person editing his own work was an owner and technically their superior.

PoE2's lead is Josh.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

How fucking hard is it to get people to stick to a word count FFS? I've written on commission and if I'm given a word count then that's the number of words I write.

What do you write about outside the communist utopia?

He is secretly the writer of an upcoming game called Disco Elysium. You might have heard about it. It is rumored that the lead writer is a literal literary genius.

 

[Bohr]

We need Josh Sawyer to create an RPG Codex account and explain his side here. Only way to make this day better.

As Infinitron pointed out he did have an account here. Whenever Gaider posted his stalker Josh would soon arrive ITT, eager to point all the flaws and failings of that boring BG game. Sadly, after Gaider left, there just wasn't as much reason to hang around the Dex.




(It would be amazing if he dusted it off to respond to MCA now, though, as unlikely as that may be)

 

[AwesomeButton]

I thought MCA was talking about Eric who allegedly promised to do extra work to get Durance and GM as concieved by MCA into the game, but then didn't have the time to do it, and instead basically went "Chris wrote too much" in front of Josh, and then in front of the other non-MCA company owners.

from this?

I strongly suspect PoE2’s lead would take responsibility for going over budget vs. blaming someone who edited his work as soon as he was aware of his boss’s requests, especially if that person editing his own work was an owner and technically their superior.

PoE2's lead is Josh.

OMG, reading comprehension! That sentence means: "I strongly suspect person A would take responsibility.... i.e. do the right thing... instead of acting like an asshole, like person B did" He is giving Josh as a positive example.

Seriously though, I don't see why we should we care about any of this. I feel embarrassed having to read these stories, even though I'm largely used to the whole genre they belong to.

I hate to be in the role of, "I'm not paid to be the guy who...", has to pass judgement on two senior employees pondering over who has more fault that a mismanaged project that had to be pulled out of the fire ended up this way. In the end they both left the company, which I doubt was the outcome anyone wished.

I've said this before, the more I learn about the people and companies who make videogames and movies, the more I regret it.

 

[Prime Junta]

He is secretly the writer of an upcoming game called Disco Elysium. You might have heard about it. It is rumored that the lead writer is a literal literary genius.

Full disclosure: Robert asked me to write some dialogue for it but I regretfully declined due to other commitments (and also a sneaky feeling I would disappoint him). He liked my PnP game project.

That was one of the proudest moments of my life.

 

[Infinitron]

We need Josh Sawyer to create an RPG Codex account and explain his side here. Only way to make this day better.

As Infinitron pointed out he did have an account here. Whenever Gaider posted his stalker Josh would soon arrive ITT, eager to point all the flaws and failings of that boring BG game. Sadly, after Gaider left, there just wasn't as much reason to hang around the Dex.




(It would be amazing if he dusted it off to respond to MCA now, though, as unlikely as that may be)

Somebody from the PoE2 team should be posting here tbh, whether Josh or badler. I mean Chris is now making claims about PoE2's development which is kind of outrageous if you think about it.

 

[Quillon]

OMG, reading comprehension! That sentence means: "I strongly suspect person A would take responsibility.... i.e. do the right thing... instead of acting like an asshole, like person B did" He is giving Josh as a positive example.

Really? Guess I need to sleep then

 

[AwesomeButton]

OMG, reading comprehension! That sentence means: "I strongly suspect person A would take responsibility.... i.e. do the right thing... instead of acting like an asshole, like person B did" He is giving Josh as a positive example.

Really? Guess I need to sleep then

No worries, man

 

[Junmarko]

a sneaky feeling I would disappoint him

The Ant Kingdom only permits one Queen eh? lol