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KickStarter BATTLETECH - turn-based mech combat from Harebrained Schemes

Cael

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how fucking stupid some of the rules decisions were. Ballistics being beefed up is a classic example. It is obvious that these guys have never played the game with 'mechs heavier than mediums given how much they believe ballistic weapons to be weak compared to energy weapons (because they are...on 'mechs with low payloads, but when you run into heat issues on heavier 'mechs...). And the talk about large laser being beefed up sounds like another one of those "but lasers should do more damage than PPCs because it is pure energy" arguments coming up.

Correct me if I am wrong but isnt the balance of ballistics vs energy been mostly about how to offset how energy is pretty much unlimited ammo they create a lot of heat so mechs goingt full energy after their alpha strike they could not even fire for another 5 minutes as ballistic weapons limited ammo was balaned by the low every requirement so they could really unload but then run out of ammo?

Wasnt balance a number of components were heat sinks, weapon slots and all created a system were mechs had to juggle weight, limited weapon and heat sink slots with their loadouts were a catapult was a hell of a support mech in the LRM configuration but wasnt suitable for prolonged engagements due to eventually run out of ammo?
In very broad strokes, yes.

In BTech, all 'mechs have a heat scale from 0-30. At various points on the scale, you had things happen to your 'mech. At 5, for example, you lose 1 point of walking speed (and your running speed gets affected, of course as it is x1.5 of your walking speed, rounded up). At 8, you have a penalty to-hit of +1, at 10 -2 to walking speed, 13 +2 penalty to-hit, and so on. Other effects include rolls to avoid a shut down, or worse, to avoid ammo explosion (if your 'mech has ammo). Ammo explosion is basically a lost 'mech since we are pre-CASE.

At the end of the round, you add up all your sources of heat (movement and weaponsfire being the two most common) and minus the amount of heat your 'mech can dissipate (number of heat sinks in this case, since freezers and DHS doesn't exist yet). The result, is added to your heat scale. Note that this can be a minus which will bring your heat scale down, but never below 0.

Energy weapons have massive heat generated for its damage and range. Ballistic weapons have less heat generated for the same. For example, a medium laser has max range 9 and generates 3 heat for 5 damage. An AC20 has the same range but 20 damage for 7 heat. 4 times the damage for just over double the heat. Large laser has damage 8 for 8 heat. AC10, same range, has damage 10 for 3 heat. Also, the longest range weapons are ballistics (LRMs are called LONG range missiles for a reason). The PPC has max range 18, while LRM goes to 21, for example. AC2 goes even further to 24.

This is where the balancing act starts: All 'mechs have 10 "free" heat sinks. That means they can fire and move up to 10 heat per turn without adding to the heat scale. Every extra point you want to get rid of per turn has to be done via heat sinks, which are 1 ton and 1 crit each. Horribly expensive in terms of weight and space used.

As a comparison, take the Awesome. The standard config is 3 PPC + 1 small laser. It has 28 heat sinks. So if it fires all of its PPCs (damage 30), it overheats by 2. A variant of it has 2x LRM15 and 2x Large Laser, removing 5 heat sinks and the PPCs. Fire all those weapons (average damage 34) and you only overheat by 1. But you can run out of ammo.

The big deciding factor is what KIND of missions you are running into. In most computer games, running out of ammo is not a big problem. There isn't all that many things to shoot at. That is why Clan 'mechs are notoriously BAD at prolonged campaigns. Their warfare is all about individual fights, basically multiplayer one-on-one. In MW2M, for example, it would be pretty rare to run out of ammo for any of the procedurally generated missions. Only when you have to take down massively armoured things like DropShips or buildings would you run into ammo issues (if you are crazy enough to use ammo on stationary targets that don't shoot back, that is...). This HBS game doesn't sound like ammo would be a problem. Now, if you play something like Crescent Hawks' Revenge, on the other hand, where you can go on multiple stages of one massive mission with no resupply, then yes, it would be a major issue. Or if you are playing MechCommander, where ammo comes fixed and there is no way you can increase the ammo load, and there are dozens of targets all over the map.

EDIT: Something that even some veterans miss (although rarely for long) is that energy boats are very vulnerable to engine hits. A TAC that hits the engine twice is basically game over for energy boats (+10 heat every round just from the engine hits; +5 per hit). And given that long range energy weapons comes in chunks of 8 or 10 heat, yeah, you're basically defanged at long range, and severely curtailed at short.
 
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Cael

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drivel, butthurt and faggotry

You've worked yourself into a frenzy and are spouting ridiculous nonsense, spit flying everywhere. The game does the setting justice and it can be quite fun if you actually play it instead of trying to find insignificant bullshit to act outraged about.
I didn't think performance issues is "insignificant bullshit", HBS shill. But one never knows what fanbois are wiling to accept from their paymasters. Just... don't drop your pants for them until I've left the room, thanks. There are sights I really don't need to see.

Anyone that doesn't agree with my ultra-edgy shit is a shill... usual retard logic.

I run the game on a 4 year old Y50-70 Lenovo laptop and it runs smooth with every setting set to high. These aren't unreasonable specs. Not sure what kind of toasters steamtards trying to run the game on... AMD?

The game isn't even that great but edgy over the top bullshit pisses me of.
Yes. Pisses you off to the point you are talking absolute shit in an attempt to "combat" said "edginess".

When one guy complains about it, it maybe that person only. When lots of people complain about the same thing, you have a problem and labelling the entire lot as "'tards" provide ample proof you are a shill. QED.
 

Blaine

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Grab the Codex by the pussy
Anyone that doesn't agree with my ultra-edgy shit is a shill... usual retard logic.

I run the game on a 4 year old Y50-70 Lenovo laptop and it runs smooth with every setting set to high. These aren't unreasonable specs. Not sure what kind of toasters steamtards trying to run the game on... AMD?

The game isn't even that great but edgy over the top bullshit pisses me of.

Nice hypocrisy you've got there: "It works fine for me, so everyone complaining about bugs and performance must have a toaster."

Negative Steam ratings streamed in en masse due to the extremely significant performance issues on launch day, and we're not talking about a game as hugely complex and cumbersome as, say, X3: Reunion here. It's fancy chessmen and some props on instanced maps.
 

Ibbz

Augur
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Messages
499
Negative Steam ratings streamed in en masse due to the extremely significant performance issues on launch day, and we're not talking about a game as hugely complex and cumbersome as, say, X3: Reunion here. It's fancy chessmen and some props on instanced maps.
Yeah I'd say the performance issues are because of the HBS Programmers / Developers (even more so with ridiculous things like number of save games affecting menu performance) - there are plenty of other Unity games of equivalent graphical quality that run fine.
 

Blaine

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The reason they're using Unity is because they don't have any (certainly not many) proper, dyed-in-the-wool programmers. See, good programmers cost a premium and they generally won't put up with the annoyances and interpersonal nonsense of game dev these days, so they're all making business software and so on instead. That's why all of these studios use Unity. It's fucking ubiquitous these days, and its performance is objectively Godawful even if some people don't notice it on their hardware.

Unity is plagued by problems that the devs very often don't understand themselves because they're essentially only using dev kits, and don't fully understand an engine that they didn't design—or for that matter, possess the programming chops to whip into shape.

Learning to use Unity for game dev isn't unlike learning to use Photoshop to make pictures. You may create great images, but you don't understand the nuts and bolts of Photoshop: you only understand its user-end tools, functions, etc.
 
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Lord Andre

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Anyone that doesn't agree with my ultra-edgy shit is a shill... usual retard logic.

I run the game on a 4 year old Y50-70 Lenovo laptop and it runs smooth with every setting set to high. These aren't unreasonable specs. Not sure what kind of toasters steamtards trying to run the game on... AMD?

The game isn't even that great but edgy over the top bullshit pisses me of.

Nice hypocrisy you've got there: "It works fine for me, so everyone complaining about bugs and performance must have a toaster."

Negative Steam ratings streamed in en masse due to the extremely significant performance issues on launch day, and we're not talking about a game as hugely complex and cumbersome as, say, X3: Reunion here. It's fancy chessmen and some props on instanced maps.

I expected more integrity from you Blaine but whatever. The hypocrisy is that the people with problems are a minority but because people like you already made up their minds that they want to hate it, that minority is brought up and touted like it's the general rule. Liberal tactics really, I thought you weren't a liberal Blaine, guess I was wrong.

If you haven't experienced problems personally then you have no business pounding that argument cause it said so on steamtard forums... it has to be true, cause steamtards never lie or cause drama for no reason... piss off.

The reason I can tell you're pulling shit out your ass is because their is plenty valid complaints to be made about the game but all I see is a lot of disingenuous strawmaning and assorted sophistry.
 

Cael

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Anyone that doesn't agree with my ultra-edgy shit is a shill... usual retard logic.

I run the game on a 4 year old Y50-70 Lenovo laptop and it runs smooth with every setting set to high. These aren't unreasonable specs. Not sure what kind of toasters steamtards trying to run the game on... AMD?

The game isn't even that great but edgy over the top bullshit pisses me of.

Nice hypocrisy you've got there: "It works fine for me, so everyone complaining about bugs and performance must have a toaster."

Negative Steam ratings streamed in en masse due to the extremely significant performance issues on launch day, and we're not talking about a game as hugely complex and cumbersome as, say, X3: Reunion here. It's fancy chessmen and some props on instanced maps.

I expected more integrity from you Blaine but whatever. The hypocrisy is that the people with problems are a minority but because people like you already made up their minds that they want to hate it, that minority is brought up and touted like it's the general rule. Liberal tactics really, I thought you weren't a liberal Blaine, guess I was wrong.

If you haven't experienced problems personally then you have no business pounding that argument cause it said so on steamtard forums... it has to be true, cause steamtards never lie or cause drama for no reason... piss off.

The reason I can tell you're pulling shit out your ass is because their is plenty valid complaints to be made about the game but all I see is a lot of disingenuous strawmaning and assorted sophistry.
Calling the other side a minority and belittling their experience and calling them liars with agendas without any proof and then projecting all that on his opponent... Wow! Any more sjw boxes you'd like to tick there, boy?
 

Lord Andre

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Calling the other side a minority and belittling their experience and calling them liars with agendas without any proof and then projecting all that on his opponent... Wow! Any more sjw boxes you'd like to tick there, boy?

Did you...

1. Buy the game?
2. Play it?
3. Have performance issues?
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,295
Calling the other side a minority and belittling their experience and calling them liars with agendas without any proof and then projecting all that on his opponent... Wow! Any more sjw boxes you'd like to tick there, boy?

Did you...

1. Buy the game?
2. Play it?
3. Have performance issues?
Are you:

1. The Internet thought police?
2. Authorised to demand answers from others?
3. Given powers of judge and jury of what can and cannot be said?


EDIT: And no, boy. Unlike you, I don't have "performance issues".
 

Blaine

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Grab the Codex by the pussy
I expected more integrity from you Blaine but whatever.

I've got plenty of integrity, but even if I didn't, the juxtaposition of these

Anyone that doesn't agree with my ultra-edgy shit is a shill....
I run the game on a 4 year old Y50-70 Lenovo laptop and it runs smooth with every setting set to high. These aren't unreasonable specs. Not sure what kind of toasters steamtards trying to run the game on... AMD?

speaks for itself. You were engaging in the exact same behavior that you'd just finished criticizing twenty pixels ago.

...because people like you already made up their minds that they want to hate it, that minority is brought up and touted like it's the general rule.

Really?

0078ef3ae9.png


CLEARLY I have it in for HBS, and have absolutely no good reasons whatsoever to be disgruntled with them this time around. I obviously did a 180 on their games completely and totally out of the blue.
 

Lord Andre

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Gypsystan
Calling the other side a minority and belittling their experience and calling them liars with agendas without any proof and then projecting all that on his opponent... Wow! Any more sjw boxes you'd like to tick there, boy?

Did you...

1. Buy the game?
2. Play it?
3. Have performance issues?
Are you:

1. The Internet thought police?
2. Authorised to demand answers from others?
3. Given powers of judge and jury of what can and cannot be said?


EDIT: And no, boy. Unlike you, I don't have "performance issues".

It's clear that you haven't even played the game and have been spamming this thread with autistic screeching based on watching streams and reading the steamtard forums. Your opinion is null and void. This was obvious from the start just wanted you to admit it.
 

Cael

Arcane
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Nov 1, 2017
Messages
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It's clear that you haven't even played the game and have been spamming this thread with autistic screeching based on watching streams and reading the steamtard forums. Your opinion is null and void. This was obvious from the start just wanted you to admit it.
LoL! Of course my opinion is null and void as far as you are concerned. That was never a question. Regardless of what I say, you would have either called me a liar or moved the goalpost. It doesn't matter because you were paid to push a particular agenda, and are already making stuff up to "prove" your point. Proving you are a liar, a fantasist and a shill is easy: Prove that I even go to the Steam forums.
 

Belegarsson

Think about hairy dwarfs all the time ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
When I opt in for money: encountered a bunch of Hunchback, Wolverine, Thunderbolt, Jagermech, Catapulp.
When I opt in for salvage: encountered a bunch of Cicada and Locusts.
AafAfUq.jpg
 

Bohr

Arcane
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
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If anyone wants to adjust some of the variables affecting combat: (Looking forward to a new version of the proper AI mod which enables the AI to use the full range of abilities at its disposal, but some of these can make quite an impact on their own)

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...y-know-how-to-use-a-notepad-try-this.1094232/
Okay, half of the threads I see is about how bad the AI is and how easy it is to beat (the other half is how hard it is and GPU dying....). The thing is, the AI doesn't have a lot of tools we have access to and on a level playing field, even the vets will have a hard time against the current AI.

Here are few quick edits you can use to improve your experience. Remember, the BIGGEST equalizer is not to deviate from stock mechs too much.

CombatGameConstants for accuracy tweaks.

View distance
"BaseSpotterDistance": 600.0, (default is 300. The more AI can see you, the more bullets can come at you)
"ExtendedSensorDistanceMultiplier": 0.5, (I think this for sensor range. Vanilla is at 100% which is too much for the new value above)

Base accuracy decrease
"ToHitAssault": 1,
"ToHitHeavy": 2,
"ToHitMedium": 3,
"ToHitLight": 5, (just try to hit that 5 evasion LCT again)
"ToHitVehicleAssault": 0,
"ToHitVehicleHeavy": 1,
"ToHitVehicleMedium": 2,
"ToHitVehicleLight": 3,

Less accuracy if YOU moved (1 is 5% so adjust if you want. It only applies AFTER you've moved. preview accuracy doesn't take this into account)
"ToHitSelfWalkLight": 1,
"ToHitSelfWalkMedium": 1,
"ToHitSelfWalkHeavy": 1,
"ToHitSelfWalkAssault": 1,
"ToHitSelfWalkVehicle": 1,

Morale action cost (default cost is too generous. Don't abuse a crutch mechanism)

- Precision Strike
"OffensivePushCost": 30,
"OffensivePushLowMoraleCost": 40,
"OffensivePushHighMoraleCost": 20,

- UI text (fury is MP)

"Name": "PRECISION STRIKE",
"Details": "Take a Called Shot against a single target at -4 Difficulty. The target's next Initiative is reduced by 1 (to a minimum of 1).\n"
},
"MoraleCostAttackDescription":
{
"Name": "PRECISION STRIKE COST",
"Details": "Cost: 30 Morale"
},
"MoraleCostAttackDescriptionFury":
{
"Name": "PRECISION STRIKE COST FURY",
"Details": "Cost: 100 Fury"
},
"MoraleCostAttackDescriptionLow":
{
"Name": "PRECISION STRIKE COST LOW",
"Details": "Cost: <color=#F04228FF>40 Morale (this MechWarrior has Low Spirits)</color>"
},
"MoraleCostAttackDescriptionHigh":
{
"Name": "PRECISION STRIKE COST HIGH",
"Details": "Cost: <color=#85DBF6FF>20 Morale (this MechWarrior has High Spirits)</color>"
}

- Vigilance
"DefensivePushCost": 30,
"DefensivePushLowMoraleCost": 40,
"DefensivePushHighMoraleCost": 20,

- UI text
"Name": "VIGILANCE",
"Details": "Gain GUARDED and ENTRENCHED and remove all stability damage. Your next Initiative is increased by 1 (to a maximum of 5).\n"
},
"MoraleCostDefendDescription":
{
"Name": "VIGILANCE COST",
"Details": "Cost: 30 Morale"
},
"MoraleCostDefendDescriptionLow":
{
"Name": "VIGILANCE COST LOW",
"Details": "Cost: <color=#F04228FF>40 Morale (this MechWarrior has Low Spirits)</color>"
},
"MoraleCostDefendDescriptionHigh":
{
"Name": "VIGILANCE COST HIGH",
"Details": "Cost: <color=#85DBF6FF>20 Morale (this MechWarrior has High Spirits)</color>"
},



SimGameConstants for parts and morale tweaks.

"DefaultMechPartMax" : 5,
"DestroyedMechRecoveryChance" : 0.5, (or 0 if you want any of your CTed mechs to be gone)
 

Taka-Haradin puolipeikko

Filthy Kalinite
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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
Better reinstall MechCommander.
If you want turn based.
Install Titans of Steel instead.

Wow dude, Titans of Steel is a VERY lightweight download. Even back in 2003, fitting a game into 0mb was damned impressive.

ea7cfd052c.png
All the links to the full, free game on the Matrix site are dead but I've dug up a fast, working link:
https://www.usitility.com/titans-of-steel-warring-suns/download-windows-xp
http://www.matrixgames.com/products/237/downloads/
 

Blaine

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Grab the Codex by the pussy
Yeah, I know.

Good ol' Internet. It's great until the second someone stops paying a bill, takes a server offline, or purges their hosting cluster, at which point a bunch of shit disappears forever unless and until some private citizen digs it up out of his hard drive.
 

Big Wrangle

Guest
Reading this whole thread makes me wish Sir-Tech still went strong to this day and gave BattleTech the Jagged Alliance 2 treatment. You win some, you lose some.
Through I wouldn't be surprised if this goes through the Shadowrun Returns route with an improved expansion yadda yadda, hopefully.
 

Stavrophore

Most trustworthy slavic man
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Strap Yourselves In
100% CPU usage just sitting in pretty much static menus like in argo/command center etc, is a sign of really bad programming. Memory leaks also, because that's a sign of rushed code, with lots of loops and variables that aren't flushed from heap. And savegames affecting menu loadaout? What kind of sorcery is this? Someone fucked up real bad, idk with I/O strims running when unnecessary.
 

Bohr

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Messages
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Through I wouldn't be surprised if this goes through the Shadowrun Returns route with an improved expansion yadda yadda, hopefully.

Well according to the former admin on the HBS site, someone who has an inside line to the devs, they're already calling it a success and it seems they'll keep working on the franchise (also implied in the AMA):

ywnkb42T_o.png
 

Elex

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