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KickStarter Kingdom Come: Deliverance - Dan Vavra's medieval chad simulator

Jugashvili

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Indeed, the save system is all about creating hoops for players to jump through... to make save-scumming more difficult. That's the whole point. It adds some tension to a genre where a save anywhere system tends to make things too easy. It certainly made me think about my actions a lot harder in the early game when schnapps was a lot more scarce. But if you don't like it, just download the infinite quicksave mod.

Save scummers will probably jump through hoops to save scum anyways because that's what save scummers do, whether it's abusing save&exit or mass-brewing magical schnapps and save-drinking themselves silly. It's like gun control, banning saves only keeps them out of the hands of law-abiding players. I've been behaving and playing along with the LARP, even though I tend to dislike survival elements in games. I keep Henry well fed, I rent beds for him, take him to the bathhouse regularly, but the system still has its cracks and they show.

Save & exit was not originally part of the game. Too many people bitched about the lack of a save & exit feature so it got patched in.

Which was a sensible move considering how unstable the game still is.
 

cvv

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And that's another thing. The save&exit feature is silly

It's a problem I've been ranting about here since the get go. It all began with their idiotic decision to not implement difficulty levels. I personally loved the old system where you could only save with schnapps, bed or automatic save. It felt proper for the game. But the shitstorm on the interwebz was fierce....and predictable tbh. You just cannot NOT have difficulty levels in this kind of game. This is not Dark Souls ffs. They would've avoided 70% of the bad publicity by simply putting in the option to choose your own difficulty. The limited save system would've been reserved for the highest one and everybody would be happy.

So first they stupidly decide NOT to have difficulty levels, then billions of people scream and shout, then they cave in and implement this dumb "Save&Quit" feature, which is straight up worse than simply having the F5 quick save because it's the same functionality, just more annoying. I sincerely hope they'll learn from this sorry episode.
 

AwesomeButton

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Save scummers will probably jump through hoops to save scum anyways because that's what save scummers do
Maybe a smaller subset of savescummers than there would have been if there was a save anywhere feature.

If I had the ability to save anywhere I would have been tempted to use it on many occasions - sneaking, shooting the bow. In the end it would have screwed up my experience because I would have started reloading and raging every time I miss a rabbit.

The metaknowledge that sleeping in a bed/going to the baths saves the game, leads the player towards balancing his own play between grinding, quest, and maintenance activities. I think this is pretty smart, and wouldn't have been possible with a save anywhere ability. The middle ground in KCD with regards to saving the game is ultimately for the players' own good.
 
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IHaveHugeNick

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That's all fine, but in Kingdom Come kind of forces you to save because you save via sleeping mechanic which is also tied to healing, resting, reseting the shops and so on. So I'm kind of puzzled how can you lose whole 2 hours of progress, because typically during 2 hours of uninterrputed playtime you would end up sleeping at least once or more.

Usually you do sleep often, except for when you don't. Closed taverns, questing in the wilds, stuff like that. Add to that a bug that can crash your game when you do end up finding a bed and you've got a perfect recipe for aggravating your players. Is that really too much for you to grasp or is blind apologism clouding your vision?

I clocked 60 hours before I finished the game, and I don't think I ever lost more than 30 minutes of progress despite limited save system. So yeah, it is too much for me to grasp how can anyone play in such a retarded manner to end up losing 2 hours .
 

HoboForEternity

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Going home to sleep even if your base in the other side of map took 15 minutes tops on a good horse.

It is always reccomended to at least sleep everyday. 1 day in game is 96 minutes. 1 hour in game =15 minutes irl. So unless you go trough several days without saving, it is impossible not to not save during that time.

Unless you play this game like retarted skyrim player that just wander like idiots in the wilderness.

The beauty of the game is you actually have to plan for exploring or doing quest. For example i am in ratttay and a quest involving someome in sasau. I calculate internally how much time i have until dusk (where most people sleep and lock the door) and is there time to go back home. If not enough, i will just do it the next day and do something earer. The game for me, is filled with those little tiny neat calculation and mini decision making due to the save/survival system. In the end i feel like really living there as in i sleep mostly at night, wake up in tje morning, eat, commute, crack some heads, go home. Eat some more, sleep.

Or with a long time the ssme thing except going to inn and rest.

Or compariso when i play new vegas, even with hardcore mode, i just explore day and night non stop and just sleep anywhere i can find bed which is alot.

Plus the map is designed not to be explored like you are unveiling a fog of war and hit a checklist. You are gonna criss cross it alot during a single playtrough.

I stopped "collecting" quests like a retard than do a dozen in one big exploring session.

In kcd i just pick a quest or 2, do it in one day, turn in them rest, repeat the mext day. It became a daily rhythm in my virtual life.
 

AwesomeButton

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In kcd i just pick a quest or 2, do it in one day, turn in them rest, repeat the mext day. It became a daily rhythm in my virtual life.
I played the same way. But I never attempted to find and do every quest out there. This can lead to disappointment and burnout.
 

Dexter

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Lol, the game's OK but its fanboys are a such shower of village idiots one can't help wonder if they've taken to LARPing inbred peasants IRL. Oo arr m'lord Vavra, 'avin the game save when young 'Enry 'ere takes a shit is a great idear, can I get a charisma boost fer wipin my arse with somethin' better than a 'andful of straw? There was varmints wat 'ad taken to pointin' out bugs in yer game m'liege but I threw turnips an' dung at 'em to shoo 'em away.
You know you could have spent the time whining here installing a Mod and fixing your problem, right? https://www.nexusmods.com/kingdomcomedeliverance/mods/1

Or you could just use the in-game mechanics provided to be able to save more often as people have already mentioned, if not alchemy the game even forces you to sleep after a while, but that's apparently "LARPing" and you wouldn't want to have that, so I'm not sure what your complaints are about other than pointing out to everyone else you are retarded and unwilling to actually fix the problem you're having. I'm not sure what else you want other people to tell you.

Other than that (and since it's supposed to be a game "feature") they already fixed most of the bugs, at least all of the obvious and severe ones.
 

Jugashvili

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Good good, let the butthurt flow through you

5001593-image+%281%29.jpg
 

Tigranes

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It's kind of cute how passive-aggressive you guys get as soon as someone makes a non-fellating comment about the game. You must be the most butthurt fandom on the Internet, and that's saying something.

Ultimately KCD isn't a particularly great game by any measure, but this doesn't preclude your butt from doing it what it does

As Awesomebutton says, the rest/save system does have a positive effect of encouraging players into an awareness of day and night, of scheduling, of distances, of health and recovery, in a very organic way that improves the other systems they have put in place. Things like NPC schedules, food, horse riding, all benefit from this. It's not much of a medieval fantasy sim when you're savespam pickpocketing every dude like some OCD klepto and then lockpicking into nobles' rooms at night to talk to them about a quest.

Save & Exit I think is just simply necessary a compromise in terms of players having a life, and it was extremely self-sabotaging not to have it from the start.

Edit: And for anyone who Saves, exits, then reloads as a way to savescum, I would question your life choices as much as the game design
 

Parabalus

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The save system adds needed tension, especially to criminality. It makes stuff like robbing to get rich much more fun, since there is added risk, compared to e.g. Beth games. Probably the game's best/brilliant feature, hopefully it makes future games innovate similarly.

Save & Exit I think is just simply necessary a compromise in terms of players having a life, and it was extremely self-sabotaging not to have it from the start.

Edit: And for anyone who Saves, exits, then reloads as a way to savescum, I would question your life choices as much as the game design

If you enjoy the save system (and have a modicum of willpower), you can readily enable free saves and spam them against potential CtDs, since you only "save"-scum when you reload. The game enforcing the system is needed for people to give it a shot - however, if you like it, you can circumvent the crash downside.
 

Grampy_Bone

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Losing any amount of progress from a crash is no fun. The first time it happened I got the unlimited quicksave mod and never looked back. I played through the original Mafia with it's high difficulty and horrid checkpoints, so fuck off with this e-peen dick waving nonsense.

As numerous people have pointed out, the theory behind limited saving is to make the player more aware of risks and play more conservatively, but the schnapps system really doesn't do that except at the very beginning of the game. Any sensible player will quickly acquire a large supply of schnapps as soon as they are able, making the system pointless from then on, other than making you drunk. If they wanted to promote more judicious saving, they should have just limited a certain number of saves per game-day, or made it based on something the player couldn't otherwise stockpile like schnapps. This is kind of the whole philosophy of KCD though, making you jump through extra hoops to do the same things as other games.

One funny thing about the mod was the version i used required you to have at least one schnapps in your inventory to save. So when I went to the monastery, I couldn't save outside of a bed, and that monastery schedule is fucking strict. Sucks! I looked for components to make schnapps but there weren't any in the alchemy lab. I scoured and searched the gardens and eventually found exactly one belladonna plant. I'm sure that was intentional from the devs. I tried to make schnapps and promptly picked the wrong order of ingredients, borking the potion and any chance at quick saving.

I felt like that one was pretty deserved so I soldiered on through the prayers and chores. Then I got caught choking out brother Pious at night and they kicked me out of the monastery like a bunch of whiners. Oh well.
 
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Serus

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It's kind of cute how passive-aggressive you guys get as soon as someone makes a non-fellating comment about the game. You must be the most butthurt fandom on the Internet, and that's saying something.
Exaggerating much ? You are acting like a woman on period. And I haven't even played the game, too lazy to pirate it so far, just browsing the thread to decide if it's worth the effort of not removing a "demo" from inventory.
 

dragonul09

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It's kind of cute how passive-aggressive you guys get as soon as someone makes a non-fellating comment about the game. You must be the most butthurt fandom on the Internet, and that's saying something.

Don't argue with the retards, they have a very contagious disease called chronical brown-nosing, it could be lethal if you agitate them enough. Also the game is still garbage, ridden with quest bugs, AI is still brain dead and refuses to fight if you do fancy movements and so many other issues that I just can't tolerate in this day and age.
 

Jugashvili

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Don't argue with the retards, they have a very contagious disease called chronical brown-nosing, it could be lethal if you agitate them enough. Also the game is still garbage, ridden with quest bugs, AI is still brain dead and refuses to fight if you do fancy movements and so many other issues that I just can't tolerate in this day and age.

Don't worry, I'll have these prize-winning dunces eating out of my hand once Vavra hires me into his dev team. I've got ideas. Brilliant ideas.

Tooltip: Uh-oh, looks like you had a woopsie!

Like all people in the Middle Ages, Henry has to relieve his bowels every now and then. Look for a suitable spot when you hear him pass wind! The quality of the ditch or latrine will influence the amount of relief you get from unloosing the caboose. Press S to squat and begin!

Minigame: wiping in Medieval Bohemia

Congratulations, you just dropped your first log! Now don't expect to just pull up your hose and be done with it -- you've got some cleaning to do! Henry will wipe himself with a rock, a handful of straw or a sponge, but only the finest silk handkerchief will provide you with a boost in charisma. Roll the mousewheel to increase the pressure and move the mouse backwards and forwards to wipe. But don't overdo it or you'll be unable to ride a horse!

New perk: Hemorrhoids of Steel

Wiping is inversely effective to the quality of the wiping implement. Cannot be combined with the Dainty Dunghole perk.
 

Tigranes

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Tried hard, didn't read. You seem very upset about this, when probably the consensus in the room is that the save system has noble goals but also sharp flaws. As far as I can tell it's not like you were railing that the save system is the worst thing you've ever seen, either, so I don't know why you're engineering "i am righteous seer of light against the sheep" thing.

I don't think I'd ever choose to design highly restrictive save (or rest) systems, given how much annoyance they cause different players for all sorts of different reasons. But when a game does do it, I go along with it, and in the case of KCD I liked the way it encouraged me to play. It helped that I didn't experience that many bugs, and I don't really obsessively save/load anyway these days - I drunk like 20 schnapps total over 40+ hours without even trying to conserve.

D_X I think a lot of that comes down to how the difficulty plunges after the first 1/3 of the game as well. To really make food, rest, day/night and all of that meaningful, you need to achieve a really delicate balance where people get injured enough to need to go back to town regularly, money is scarce enough to make repairing a decision, etc., without making it so punishing or frustrating to totally stonewall the player. And that's really hard to do. my experience was that early game, when all of those systems are still novel and working OK, the save system augments them and synergises; but as those systems start to fall apart once players get used to them and they become superknights with infinite money and 80 plate mails, all of these systems start to fall down (food becomes an annoyance because you're never really going hungry, etc).
 

IHaveHugeNick

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Haha suck it Vavra, this game is so easy I can be a killing machine even if I run around for 5 days ignoring all the survival systems.

Oh shit I died and lost 5 hours of progress, fuck you Vavra your game is stupid.
 

IHaveHugeNick

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Is it just me or some of those mods do everything to ruin all the things that are unique about this game. The biggest draw of KCD is unmatched immersion and going 3rd person or unlimited saves just turns it into generic sandbox.
 

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