Eternity Pillars of Eternity II Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[AwesomeButton]

I like those modals that come with the proficiency talent. They don't seem to make a lot of difference, but they are nice to have and can be modded to be more effective. I had to agree that although the D&D logic of people having penalties by default for using weapons with no proficiency may be more intuitive, PoE's "no penalties for lack of proficiency/bonuses for having proficiency" makes more sense in a game. Still, it's a matter of balance how much impactful will proficiencies be.

At 4:44:15, you see the PC pushing away the rogue in order to start hitting the sand grub. I wonder if such pushing can cause a disengagement attack if the enemy in question has engagement on the character being pushed?

 

[santino27]

TB-tactics game set in POE? Could be fun, but can't imagine we'll get it before 2020.

Makes you wonder what exactly the point was of making their flagship franchise a combat-heavy RTwP game. It's basically a tacit admission that PoE's own lead designer believes its combat is unsatisfying, and that the franchise needs a spin-off with a completely different combat system to deliver good combat.

Well, there's nothing tacit or hidden about it... we know Josh prefers turn based, as he's fond of saying so. POE was RTwP because that's what the IE games used, and because their kickstarter for POE was heavily reliant on monetizing people's nostalgia. (Not that I'm saying there's anything wrong with that.)

 

[Once more unto the Codex]

TB-tactics game set in POE? Could be fun, but can't imagine we'll get it before 2020.

Makes you wonder what exactly the point was of making their flagship franchise a combat-heavy RTwP game. It's basically a tacit admission that PoE's own lead designer believes its combat is unsatisfying, and that the franchise needs a spin-off with a completely different combat system to deliver good combat.

Or maybe it is just consistent with Sawyer’s longstanding personal preference for classless TB to class-based RTwP?

 

[AwesomeButton]

Or maybe it is just consistent with Sawyer’s longstanding personal preference for classless TB to class-based RTwP?

A classless turn based RPG has made big bucks, so his preference seems to coincide with what's fashionable at the moment. If he wouldn't push for an Obsidian TB classless RPG now, then when? :D

Josh claims that using tanks in doorways will not be possible as often in Deadfire as it is in PoE. This should put their new AI system to the test.

 

[FreeKaner]

He will make his darklands now and it will usher a new era, from the ashes of dumpsterfire the real gem will shine through.

 

[Pizzashoes]

The characterization of Aloth is a prime example of the prejudice of game designers and storytellers against male elves. They all think they're these effeminate, weak sissies, but in reality, they're far more badass and masculine than any pitiful human male.

 

[AwesomeButton]

It's a thing you can do, but it's not a thing you can do in every single fight. In Pillars One it just became too typical, like "Yuup, I'm gonna set up my two tanks right here, and everyone's behind them, and that's the way to fight those..."

I like it how Josh basically confirmed my description of how different classes play in PoE. I'll quote it again:

two groups of PoE classes - those that you put on the frontline, if possible block a doorway with, and then click and target their active abilities, and then those which you put behind the former ones, and then click and target their active abilities.

This, Grunker , is why I said character development choices matter way too little in PoE. Whatever `~byld~` you make, your character ends up in one of those two described spots.

 

[CptMace]

What would a third spot be ?

 

[Thonius]

Wait, Sawyer leaving obsidian or what?

 

[Thonius]

What would a third spot be ?

I quess every munchkin dream - ultimate can do it all char. Ranged glass cannon tank with great support ability!

 

[Cross]

TB-tactics game set in POE? Could be fun, but can't imagine we'll get it before 2020.

Makes you wonder what exactly the point was of making their flagship franchise a combat-heavy RTwP game. It's basically a tacit admission that PoE's own lead designer believes its combat is unsatisfying, and that the franchise needs a spin-off with a completely different combat system to deliver good combat.

Well, there's nothing tacit or implied about it... we know Josh prefers turn based, as he's fond of saying so. POE was RTwP because that's what the IE games used, and because their kickstarter for POE was heavily reliant on monetizing people's nostalgia. (Not that I'm saying there's anything wrong with that.)

An appeal to nostalgia that turned out to be largely pointless considering the far more succesful Divinity: Original Sin was also referred to as a Baldur's Gate spiritual successor by fans and game journalists alike. With design choicess like regenerating health and abandonment of Vancian casting, the PoE franchise is already far removed from its 'inspiration'.

My point was that it would be supremely silly to restrict a potentially superior combat system to a spin-off, when Sawyer has shown no attachment to IE/D&D mechanics apart from the merely superficial ('we have six attributes!').

 

[FreeKaner]

Daily reminder PoE would be a better game without the IE pandering.

 

[Jenkem]

ship to ship combat looks kind of boring... hope it is entirely optional

 

[Arnust]

You seem to basically be talking sbout Tyranny there :D

 

[AwesomeButton]

BTW, this Titan fight is what combat difficulty should be like. It has a huge HP pool, to offset that it's alone. Once the two scarab beetles show up though, it's too much for the usual "select all -> auto attack" or "leave it to the AI to cast abilties" tactic.

In his first fight Eric was doing well, until the beetles show up. They start by scoring two crits on his characters, just as his "Pillar of Faith" misses spectacularly after a long cast time, and still incurring recovery time, because why not. This stupidity of spellcasts having to pass a to-hit roll has to end.

Daily reminder PoE would be a better game without the IE pandering.

PoE is bad in virtually everything where it strays from the IE mechanics.

 

[FreeKaner]

Because IE mechanics are bad, so a stray is also not very good fundamentally. It also fails where IE games succeeded, that being encounter design and variety of tactics. Instead of a half-hearted spin-off it could have been something original and different, this limbo of sawyerism and pandering is worst of both worlds.

 

[Infinitron]

This stupidity of spellcasts having to pass a to-hit roll has to end.

(psst this is kind of what passing a saving throw was in the IE)

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

The third option obviously involves kiting like a retard using your amazing tactical intelligence and foresight to defeat the enemy.

 

[Pizzashoes]

(psst this is kind of what passing a saving throw was in the IE)

Kind of. But as you of course know, there are plenty of spells with no save allowed or save for half damage. Spellcasters, in general, have finite offensive resources, but when they bust out their spells, they can change the course of nations.

 

[Infinitron]

(psst this is kind of what passing a saving throw was in the IE)

Kind of. But as you of course know, there are plenty of spells with no save allowed or save for half damage. Spellcasters, in general, have finite offensive resources, but when they bust out their spells, they can change the course of nations.

Saving for half damage is when the spell grazes.

BTW Sawyer has said that Minoletta's Minor Missiles is now an always-hitting spell in PoE2, like Magic Missile was in AD&D. Is that the case? If there's one, there could be others.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Because IE mechanics are bad, so a stray is also not very good fundamentally. It also fails where IE games succeeded, that being encounter design and variety of tactics. Instead of a half-hearted spin-off it could have been something original and different, this limbo of sawyerism and pandering is worst of both worlds.

Yes, it could have been a true spiritual successor, instead of an excuse for one.

The third option obviously involves kiting like a retard using your amazing tactical intelligence and foresight to defeat the enemy.

What would a third spot be ?

If you mean this in the sense that you see no possible third option, then my sincere condolences.

Ok. Here is a combat encounter that couldn't play out in PoE:


Here is a similarly difficult encounter in PoE, with enemies again surrounding the party at the time when combat begins:

But what is he doing? Is he cheesing? OMG, Sawyer, are you watching?! >>DEGENERATE GAMEPLAY<<

Ok, let's find another one:

Ahaa.. the doorway block. Sneaky!

Finally, here is one without any abuses. It's on Hard, not PotD, but anyway:


I think it's not worth pointing out which one is more fun to play, and which one plays like RTWP.

This stupidity of spellcasts having to pass a to-hit roll has to end.

(psst this is kind of what passing a saving throw was in the IE)

Do you really think so? Would you care to compare the progression of saving throws vs the progression of PoE defences? The latter will turn out to be more powerful. In additon to that, the PoE Wizard's usually low accuracy score shifts the treshold for miss upwards, giving a further chance for the spell to miss. The +10 Accuracy for most spells sort of offsets that. What makes it a real pain is the opportunity cost - lost time in casting + recovery. This wasn't that much of a pain in the IE games thanks to the, as I see, completely rejected by the forward-thinking humanity, personal initiative round, which used to make recovery times more or less uniform for all combatants, for much of the game's span.

 

[tripedal]

Opinions on the scaling? The fact that they have 3 different options makes me cautious because you never know which option they actually designed the game for. No scaling seems like the right choice but who knows what kind of effects that will have if they designed the game anticipating most people will pick scaling for everything.

 

[AwesomeButton]

It's something I appreciate, even if it's not "balanced". It's nice to have as an option for whoever is irritated when he goes out on doing secondary quests and when he gets back to the main quest he is mowing down through enemies that should be difficult. I like the feeling of "my party is so powerful" when I am a little overlevelled, but it can get too much.

I nearly forgot something that made a huge positive impression on me in Deadfire: voice sets. I was so sick and tired of the voice sets in PoE, all those grunts and growls, like I'm commanding a group of Neanderthals. One wonders what kind of corner-cutting, effort-saving happened there. It's good they have gone for more varied and less generic-sounding voice sets.

 

[Pizzashoes]

Does Sensuki really not use hotkeys? How many hours of those games has he played? Ok, maybe that's a bit mean. I'm sure he's only played them a few times.

As for the Raedric fight, I think it's well-designed on PotD. Eder and Pallegina at the front to solidify the battle lines. Those two engage/disrupt, Durance buffs/debuffs in-combat, Aloth and Hiravias CCs/kills archmages and rogues, or whatever. Use tactics which require no cheese and you'll have fun. The trick is figuring out which spells/abilities to use, whom to target and how to build/itemize the characters well. That kind of gameplay is way more exciting than Sensuki's auto-attacking in between baiting out enemies one at a time or just generally abusing the poor AI.

Real-Time with Pause is a misnomer. Most of the time spent in combat is paused. The problem with PoE1's combat is not that the game is paused during combat. The good fights on PotD play very similarly to the good ones in SCS Baldur's Gate. The problem is all the trash mobs interspersed between the big fights. But does Sawyer know that?

I'm excited to play the new game.

 

[CptMace]

Damn you really took that joke at heart.
The fact you couldn't answer without posting a few videos is p.cool though.
But I must ask, why would you post a video where sensuki tries to spread his guys wide and make maximum use of his freedom of movement only to reload and stack his guys as a blob ? I'm pretty sure there were better moments you could pick from.

It's weird to realise people don't seem to understand the ramp in front of raedric's throne is all they need as a choke point. I mean, it's there for this very reason ffs.