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Ultima Few questions about Ultima IV.

Darkzone

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Darkzone said:
I gave it Ultima IV a go because I found its premise compelling, so, no way I'm gonna stop playing this. I didn't create this thread to find out which one is better anyways. Didn't know this is part of a trilogy though.
I'm glad to hear it as an old (1985) Ultima veteran. You will discover while you play U6 why it is called a trilogy and how the cycle closes. To be honest i don't know what hint to give you without spoiling you the games, therefore i only wish you fun.
But i will spoil it a bit for you:
The magic staff is stronger than the magic axe and i prefer the magic axe before the magic sword.
 

Zerth

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Well, a bunch of pirates got too near the shore and now I have a vessel to sail the seas:positive: . Getting the hang of wind direction manipulation with the spell. Also, figure out how to use the blue teleport gates for my convenience, interesting and useful.

Anyway, I was wondering. Do a companion would leave the party if I flee too much from battle, steal, kill innocents, refuse to give blood to charity, etc.? Pretty much become the antithesis of the Avatar?
 

Sceptic

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Divinity: Original Sin
Anyway, I was wondering. Do a companion would leave the party if I flee too much from battle, steal, kill innocents, refuse to give blood to charity, etc.? Pretty much become the antithesis of the Avatar?
No, but do keep in mind that doing these things will lower your score in that particular virtue. There's no meter you can directly see, but asking Hawkwind the Seer about a virtue will tell you more or less how you're doing. The point of this part of the game is to figure out by yourself how to improve in specific virtues. Most of them are pretty straightforward, though others might be a bit trickier (I think Sacrifice was the one that gave players the most trouble back then)
 

oldmanpaco

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You have to have all eight companions to enter the last bit of the game so don't forget em.

First time I got to the bottom I only had 7 companions because I could not find the last one and just said fuck it. Was not amused to get booted back to the top.

Anyway fucking Katrina is straight down from the entrance to Magnincia and I only ever went across the bridge. Don't even remember how I found her but I do remember dragging her her lvl 1 corpse back down the me.
 

Zerth

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
No, but do keep in mind that doing these things will lower your score in that particular virtue. There's no meter you can directly see, but asking Hawkwind the Seer about a virtue will tell you more or less how you're doing. The point of this part of the game is to figure out by yourself how to improve in specific virtues. Most of them are pretty straightforward, though others might be a bit trickier (I think Sacrifice was the one that gave players the most trouble back then)

I found the guy behind an energy barrier that induces sleep, pretty annoying. He straight-up told me I am a coward and selfish. I learned too late that fleeing too much deviates from the path of valor (When I started around Yew, I attempted to reach british castle by blindly going south, got lost and end up fighting and fleeing a lot, I learned to read the map more accurately the hard way), and for sacrifice, by meditation, I found out that I have to just keep donating blood.

You have to have all eight companions to enter the last bit of the game so don't forget em.

first time I got to the bottom I only had 7 companions because I could not find the last one and just said fuck it. Was not amused to get booted back to the top.

I believe you only are able to recruit as much 7 companions, each one represents a virtue, and since you already fully part of a virtue when you start a certain class, the another one that represents the same virtue comes as redundant. I figured this out, because a NPC told me that Jaana the druid seeks justice and wants to join a quest. I found jaana and She told me can't join me, and I assume it was cuz I'm already a druid.
 

oldmanpaco

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You have to have all eight companions to enter the last bit of the game so don't forget em.

first time I got to the bottom I only had 7 companions because I could not find the last one and just said fuck it. Was not amused to get booted back to the top.

I believe you only are able to recruit as much 7 companions, each one represents a virtue, and since you already fully part of a virtue when you start a certain class, the another one that represents the same virtue comes as redundant. I figured this out, because a NPC told me that Jaana the druid seeks justice and wants to join a quest. I found jaana and She told me can't join me, and I assume it was cuz I'm already a druid.

Yeah I meant 7 virtues represented - Avatar + 6.
 

Sceptic

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Divinity: Original Sin
I found the guy behind an energy barrier that induces sleep, pretty annoying. He straight-up told me I am a coward and selfish. I learned too late that fleeing too much deviates from the path of valor (When I started around Yew, I attempted to reach british castle by blindly going south, got lost and end up fighting and fleeing a lot, I learned to read the map more accurately the hard way), and for sacrifice, by meditation, I found out that I have to just keep donating blood.
There are some less straightforward and interesting ways to raise some of the virtues. Valor goes up if you kill evil things and down if you run away obviously, but killing non-evil things (like snakes or other beasts) will raise Valor but LOWER Compassion, so the idea is to either let them run away when they start to, which will raise Compassion without changing Valor, or even running away yourself, since re-raising the lost Valor is easier. For Sacrifice, donating blood is the most obvious one, but there are others, such as if you're running away from a fight, protecting your party members' retreat and being the last one to leave will lower Valor but raise Sacrifice. The virtue system is surprisingly organic I think.

I believe you only are able to recruit as much 7 companions, each one represents a virtue, and since you already fully part of a virtue when you start a certain class, the another one that represents the same virtue comes as redundant. I figured this out, because a NPC told me that Jaana the druid seeks justice and wants to join a quest. I found jaana and She told me can't join me, and I assume it was cuz I'm already a druid.
Pretty much how it works yeah.
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

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guys what about the port of Ultima IV to MASTER SYSTEM
212708-ultima-iv-quest-of-the-avatar-sega-master-system-screenshot.png

212710-ultima-iv-quest-of-the-avatar-sega-master-system-screenshot.png

212712-ultima-iv-quest-of-the-avatar-sega-master-system-screenshot.png

212717-ultima-iv-quest-of-the-avatar-sega-master-system-screenshot.png

screenshot_ult_003.png
 

Darkzone

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No, but do keep in mind that doing these things will lower your score in that particular virtue. There's no meter you can directly see, but asking Hawkwind the Seer about a virtue will tell you more or less how you're doing. The point of this part of the game is to figure out by yourself how to improve in specific virtues. Most of them are pretty straightforward, though others might be a bit trickier (I think Sacrifice was the one that gave players the most trouble back then)

I found the guy behind an energy barrier that induces sleep, pretty annoying. He straight-up told me I am a coward and selfish. I learned too late that fleeing too much deviates from the path of valor (When I started around Yew, I attempted to reach british castle by blindly going south, got lost and end up fighting and fleeing a lot, I learned to read the map more accurately the hard way), and for sacrifice, by meditation, I found out that I have to just keep donating blood.

You have to have all eight companions to enter the last bit of the game so don't forget em.
first time I got to the bottom I only had 7 companions because I could not find the last one and just said fuck it. Was not amused to get booted back to the top.

I believe you only are able to recruit as much 7 companions, each one represents a virtue, and since you already fully part of a virtue when you start a certain class, the another one that represents the same virtue comes as redundant. I figured this out, because a NPC told me that Jaana the druid seeks justice and wants to join a quest. I found jaana and She told me can't join me, and I assume it was cuz I'm already a druid.
Your assumption is correct. So you are starting to learn the game and that it is important on how you play the game (virtue system) and not only in playing the game. Welcome to the depths of Ultima, that no other game has ever reached them again.
 

Zerth

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Your assumption is correct. So you are starting to learn the game and that it is important on how you play the game (virtue system) and not only in playing the game. Welcome to the depths of Ultima, that no other game has ever reached them again.

That's what I figure out after putting everything together in my spreadsheet journal.
I hope that what I've learned from Ultima IV, can be also applied to V and VI.

BTW, that sextant thing I'm yet to find. Would help me to read coordinates?
In order to find magincia ruins. Since ruins lie on lat-K´ J'' long-L´ L''.
 

Darkzone

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Your assumption is correct. So you are starting to learn the game and that it is important on how you play the game (virtue system) and not only in playing the game. Welcome to the depths of Ultima, that no other game has ever reached them again.

That's what I figure out after putting everything together in my spreadsheet journal.
I hope that what I've learned from Ultima IV, can be also applied to V and VI.

BTW, that sextant thing I'm yet to find. Would help me to read coordinates?
In order to find magincia ruins. Since ruins lie on lat-K´ J'' long-L´ L''.
To use the sextant you use the L key command. And it looks like this:
>Locate position with sextant
Latitude: K' N"
Longitude: C' N"
 

Sceptic

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Divinity: Original Sin
I hope that what I've learned from Ultima IV, can be also applied to V and VI.
Some things won't because the game mechanics change (U4 is the only game that tracks each virtue individually), but other world-related things stay the same, such as all the mantras, or the location of places in the world (though some move a bit as the world becomes more detailed). You never have to worry about forgetting something from one game to the next though, the mantras can be found in each game again (though obviously if you already know them you can skip some steps).
 

SausageInYourFace

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Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit. Pathfinder: Wrath
While I enjoyed my time with U4, I have to admit that it was walkthrough 'assisted' and I do not really think its a good game for a truly 'organic' playthrough, as most people seem to suggest. I wonder how many people did actually really play successfully through the whole game, even back in the day. The same actually goes for U5, I think, which is just as vast and obscure in parts, even though it does have many conveniences that U4 hasn't. To my mind, U6 is the first game in the series one can actually play through organically and fairly hassle free.

Still :salute: to OP for trying, have fun!
 

Zerth

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
The magic axe is great, but's such a shame that
Neither geoffrey nor Shamino can equip it, only Julia and Dupre, the clumsiest of the bunch
. Also, my sizable party is constantly stumbling across equally or more sizable enemy encounters, It wouldn't be so tedious if It wasn't for every party member missing almost all the freaking time.
 

Bumvelcrow

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Codex 2013 Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Strap Yourselves In
While I enjoyed my time with U4, I have to admit that it was walkthrough 'assisted' and I do not really think its a good game for a truly 'organic' playthrough, as most people seem to suggest.

I think it requires patience, something I didn't have back then as I never came close to completing the game without a walkthrough. I think part of the reason was that a lot of what would generally have been throwaway lines in any other game (Hawkwind's advice for instance) actually mattered in U4. If you know what you're getting into then you can start taking these 'throwaway' lines seriously. If you're used to having the game hold your hand to the ending then it's basically unwinnable.
 

Bruma Hobo

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The magic axe is great, but's such a shame that
Neither geoffrey nor Shamino can equip it, only Julia and Dupre, the clumsiest of the bunch
. Also, my sizable party is constantly stumbling across equally or more sizable enemy encounters, It wouldn't be so tedious if It wasn't for every party member missing almost all the freaking time.
Learn how to use horses and the blink spell, and you will easily avoid most overworld encounters (except when exploring the ocean). You will still have to fight your way in dungeons, but at least their rooms don't scale to your party size.
 

oldmanpaco

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The magic axe is great, but's such a shame that
Neither geoffrey nor Shamino can equip it, only Julia and Dupre, the clumsiest of the bunch
. Also, my sizable party is constantly stumbling across equally or more sizable enemy encounters, It wouldn't be so tedious if It wasn't for every party member missing almost all the freaking time.

Combat is mush easier when using only ranged weapons - Magic Axes, Wands, and Bows. Equip a crossbow on Geoffrey and a sling on Katrina.
 

oldmanpaco

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While I enjoyed my time with U4, I have to admit that it was walkthrough 'assisted' and I do not really think its a good game for a truly 'organic' playthrough, as most people seem to suggest.

I think it requires patience, something I didn't have back then as I never came close to completing the game without a walkthrough. I think part of the reason was that a lot of what would generally have been throwaway lines in any other game (Hawkwind's advice for instance) actually mattered in U4. If you know what you're getting into then you can start taking these 'throwaway' lines seriously. If you're used to having the game hold your hand to the ending then it's basically unwinnable.

I finished the game when I was a kid but it might have taken me a year or so. Back then I didn't have a lot of PC gaming options (Starflight, Ancient Art Of War, and King's Quest II/III are the only other games i remember from the time period) so I played the shit out of U4.
 

Cael

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Some tips:
1. When you start out, equip everyone with a sling. Ranged weapons beat even the best melee weapon by several orders of magnitude. Towards the end game, you should have the following weapons:
- Magic Wand on the bard, druid and mage (best weapon in the game, period)
- Magic Axe on the paladin and tinker
- Magic Bow on ranger
- Crossbow on fighter
- Sling on shepherd (the only ranged weapon she can use)

2. Don't fret about armour. It doesn't really help all that much and towards the end, you get the best armour for free. Concentrate on weapons and kill the enemy as fast as possible.

3. Get the shepherd first if you are aiming to level up your companions for the final dungeon. She has the worst attack rating bar none, and therefore needs the most amount of chances to gain levels. Alternatively, start as a shepherd to get all of the quest XP and let your companions kill everything. It is probably faster this way, but your main character is really going to be gimped unless you have that glitched magikarp version of U4 that allows you to use all weapons and armour once you become the avatar of the 8.

4. Pay attention to the goal of the game. U4 is NOT your usual "murder the final boss and win" game. Think things through logically. The virtues form a framework that makes logical sense and your actions have logical consequences.

5. EVERYTHING in the game has a logical place. That includes the names of the dungeons and where they are placed. I am not kidding. Garriott went ultra sperglord for U4, and went even further for U5 (look up the "meanings" of the Words of Power).

6. The moongates follow a logical pattern, and knowing how they work and where they go will save you a lot of time and frustration. It would also make things that are usually inaccessible available to you (e.g., Moonglow, Skara Brae, Magincia, even Jhelom after a fashion).

7. Watch for cameos and sight gags. Garriott pulled a Fallout long before Fallout did.

Spoiler!!!
The Tremor spell is overpowered as hell. Being able to cast it would save your monitor in the last couple of dungeons.
 

Cael

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Your assumption is correct. So you are starting to learn the game and that it is important on how you play the game (virtue system) and not only in playing the game. Welcome to the depths of Ultima, that no other game has ever reached them again.

That's what I figure out after putting everything together in my spreadsheet journal.
I hope that what I've learned from Ultima IV, can be also applied to V and VI.

BTW, that sextant thing I'm yet to find. Would help me to read coordinates?
In order to find magincia ruins. Since ruins lie on lat-K´ J'' long-L´ L''.
There are 2 ways to get the coordinates.

The first is the Locate spell. You will need nightshade for it.

The second is to find the sextant. Someone will mention it, if you talk to enough people. But if you want the answer now:

Guild Shop, unlisted option D.
 

Zerth

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Messages
406
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I dunno. I need a lot of gold, so I've been tackling combat wherever it happens.
Also, I was using blink to avoid trap tiles. But I found out It was more cost effective to just cure poison.

Combat is mush easier when using only ranged weapons - Magic Axes, Wands, and Bows. Equip a crossbow on Geoffrey and a sling on Katrina.

Been doing that. At first I was spamming fireballs but wasn't profitable. Yet, I think have a couple guys in close combat is not a poor idea either.

Some tips:
1. When you start out, equip everyone with a sling. Ranged weapons beat even the best melee weapon by several orders of magnitude. Towards the end game, you should have the following weapons:
- Magic Wand on the bard, druid and mage (best weapon in the game, period)
- Magic Axe on the paladin and tinker
- Magic Bow on ranger
- Crossbow on fighter
- Sling on shepherd (the only ranged weapon she can use)
Magic Wand? Magic Bow? I haven't found any towne that sells that. Also, I figure this implies farming gold.


2. Don't fret about armour. It doesn't really help all that much and towards the end, you get the best armour for free. Concentrate on weapons and kill the enemy as fast as possible.
Yes. Enemies usually don't inflict that much damage either. Balrons are the most dangerous foes I found so far, mostly cuz they spam sleep.

3. Get the shepherd first if you are aiming to level up your companions for the final dungeon. She has the worst attack rating bar none, and therefore needs the most amount of chances to gain levels. Alternatively, start as a shepherd to get all of the quest XP and let your companions kill everything. It is probably faster this way, but your main character is really going to be gimped unless you have that glitched magikarp version of U4 that allows you to use all weapons and armour once you become the avatar of the 8.

I'm still looking for the shepherd (pls don't tell me where is). I was in Magincia and only found demons and hints for a silver horn and the rune(which I already found).

4. Pay attention to the goal of the game. U4 is NOT your usual "murder the final boss and win" game. Think things through logically. The virtues form a framework that makes logical sense and your actions have logical consequences.

AFAIK, following up what NPCs told me, killing anything isn't the main goal but read certain codex within a place called the stygian abyss.

5. EVERYTHING in the game has a logical place. That includes the names of the dungeons and where they are placed. I am not kidding. Garriott went ultra sperglord for U4, and went even further for U5 (look up the "meanings" of the Words of Power).
I've noticed dungeons are the opposite values of a virtue: WRONG, DESPISE, COVETOUS.. At least the ones I found. Those are always nearby of townes or shrines of the virtues they antagonize?

6. The moongates follow a logical pattern, and knowing how they work and where they go will save you a lot of time and frustration. It would also make things that are usually inaccessible available to you (e.g., Moonglow, Skara Brae, Magincia, even Jhelom after a fashion).
I've been taking moongates wherever opportunity arises.

7. Watch for cameos and sight gags. Garriott pulled a Fallout long before Fallout did.
There's a NPC called Merlin and the Balrons are clearly based upon Balrog.
 

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