Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

[Cyberarmy]

I only encounter a sige once there with some modais. Thankfully I got lucky with insta ranger kill.
Come to think of it, my first playthrough was extermely lucky with insta kills.

 

[theSavant]

Is "Senses" better than "Speed"?

I've read some discussions on Steam forums talking about Senses/Speed, and some guy claimed that the fighter who skilled Senses hit and killed much more often than the fighter who skilled Speed. In another thread someone said that Senses enhances Initiative by .2 which would be the same as with Speed - so it wouldn't matter which one you choose (except the resulting special abilities after reaching 100). The reason for Senses being better was supposedly that "Close Combat" is determined by Senses and not Speed.

Is that true?

Tbh, I never got my head around what "Senses" really is, because the description was so wishy-washy, I thought it must be shit and ignored it. But now after reading that, it may totally change my perspective (especially when rolling with a melee party).

 

[Piotrovitz]

I'd say senses is better for melees, as on top of giving direct bonus to initiative and attack rating, it affects close combat/dual weaps/critical strike growth.

Aside from daggers, speed seems to affect only initiative, number of swings/attacks (not sure how though), and give small boost to AC.

Usually I pump SEN for melees and SPD for bard/casters - landing a debuff or casting soul/element shield in the first round may turn potentially tough fight into a cakewalk.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

I'd say senses is better for melees, as on top of giving direct bonus to initiative and attack rating, it affects close combat/dual weaps/critical strike growth.

Aside from daggers, speed seems to affect only initiative, number of swings/attacks (not sure how though), and give small boost to AC.

Usually I pump SEN for melees and SPD for bard/casters - landing a debuff or casting soul/element shield in the first round may turn potentially tough fight into a cakewalk.

Skill growth is going to be pretty pointless in the long run, everything will hit 100 by midgame anyway in your primary weapons.

Not sure about Attack rating for Senses, pretty sure that's ranged only. In any case, Strength does the same thing but also boosts damage.

Melee should go Str + Dex. Str gives Attack bonus, damage (doubles your base damage at 100), carrying capacity (which is effectively a speed boost for the entire party), and access to Power Strike, which is more attack bonus and increases chance to pierce armor. Dex gives more swings and access to Reflexion (more AC). 100 dex + reflexion + stealth means a character who is basically untouchable.

Initiative isn't a huge deal. You can go Spd instead of Dex if you really want higher initiative but the effect on # of attacks is going to even out regardless, and Snake Speed is much less useful than Reflexion. Plus you can easily buff Spd with the Haste spell.

Str is just too important to ignore. Double damage for all attacks is too sweet. That equals 4x damage for berserking fighters and backstabbing Thieves.

 

[Piotrovitz]

Did I say anywhere that SEN is more important than STR/DEX for melees?
There's no arguing that the latter two are the most crucial stats for melees and should be maxed out as a priority - exactly for the reasons you stated above.

Dude just asked whether SEN or SPD is more important for fighters - truth is that SEN is more beneficial in the long run, end of story.

Also, after few playthroughs, I doubt that you can hit 100 in primary weapon skill by midgame, unless you're going for the grind fest.
If you're not bent on powergaming and farming exp, I'd say that getting faster skill growth is kinda useful and it makes SEN the third most valuable stat for frontline melees.

What level are you usually finishing the game on?

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Well with a need to hit 100 to unlock master skills ASAP, talking about more than 2 stats for any character for most of the game is a waste of time. I don't see how a bonus to archery and Eagle Eye helps fighters that much.

I think I always hit low to mid 20s by endgame, I don't recall exactly. My last run was a no RPC party so I may have gotten a bit higher. With 3 points per level + 2-3 points from battles each level, hitting 75-100 in weapon skills by level 10-12 is very doable, even without "grinding" (the whole game is a grind tbh). Unless you switch weapons a lot. Getting 10-20 skill points a few levels earlier won't make one lick of meaningful difference in any fights.

 

[Piotrovitz]

Fair enough.

By all means, I'm not for maxing out SEN for front liners, because eagle eye is useless, but still, it is worth raising after STR/DEX hit 100.
Beside initiative bonus, I'm pretty sure it bumps attack rating not only for ranged combat, but for melee as well.

Also, it's not that you have much of a choice on what to raise next. Out of SEN/SPD/VIT, senses seem most beneficial.

Anyway, Wiz 8 is pretty forgiving comparing to 7 - you can go with any party/char builds and have easy times, as long as you have two casters for soul/element shield and debuffs.
With suboptimal parties the fights just tend to last longer and that's all.

 

[TigerKnee]

Speed is usually the dump stat for most characters because you can just cast Haste to get a ton of it. The only exception being the Shield casters because they absolutely need to go first (the turn order doesn't update dynamically on the same turn so you can't just have a fast Haste caster provide the Shielders with Speed).

 

[Piotrovitz]

(the turn order doesn't update dynamically on the same turn so you can't just have a fast Haste caster provide the Shielders with Speed).

Whoah, didn't know that before, that's some useful info.

Was always wondering why my casters are always going after the mobs, when my high speed bard, with all the +SPD gear, used rousing drums in the first turn before anything else moved. Guess this is the answer.

 

[PorkBarrellGuy]

What's the general opinion of Faerie Monks? Seems like a great combination, honestly, only hampered by low Strength.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

What's the general opinion of Faerie Monks? Seems like a great combination, honestly, only hampered by low Strength.

Almost certainly outclassed by Faerie Ninja, but I suppose you would get a fast hitter that could do lots of instakill punches with high AC. Not worth it without the Cane of Corpus.

I hate faeries for their shitty carry capacity personally.

 

[SophosTheWise]

So, I finally came around playing a few hours of Wiz 8 and did the Monastery. I remember reading in another thread that this is regarded as an absolute classic as far as dungeons go. Since I don't have a nostalgic relationship with Wiz, I'm not really sure what to think of it. It seemed... kind of... empty? There was not much to discover, the layout of the Monastery didn't seem to make a whole lot of sense... I somehow expected more, especially because party building was really fun and combat seemed cool (though playing on Novice might have been a mistake). What do I have to expect beyond the Monastery? Because the game hasn't really gripped me yet, to be honest.

 

[Lady_Error]

The monastery sucks, plain and simple. After Wizardry 7 I was quite disappointed with Wizardry 8.

 

[Sinatar]

Monastary is a giant ass building full of boring ass slimes and devoid of any puzzles or interesting design elements at all.

It's a miserable way to open the game.

 

[PorkBarrellGuy]

So I rerolled because I was just really not happy with the Ninja I had and going through the Monastery again, I will say there's nothing particularly interesting there. It's very non-threatening for the most part, a place to get your first few levels and a little bit of loot. There's a secret or two here and there, but nothing that requires a lot of brainpower to figure out

Spoiler

the statue holding the skull and the accompanying riddle are pretty damn feeble attempt at a puzzle in retrospect

Supposedly you get a different opening for the game if you imported from 7 depending on whom you sided with in 7? Doesn't do me much good as my copy of Wiz7 is buried in a moving box somewhere.

 

[mushaden]

The game is pretty empty. The first town (which is arguably the only town) will feel the same way. There are some interesting dynamics with rival factions later, though. You really have to enjoy the exploration and character building, but I think the game is worth playing.

 

[Lady_Error]

Supposedly you get a different opening for the game if you imported from 7 depending on whom you sided with in 7?

Yeah, I finished 7 with the Umpani and imported into 8 to start at a different location, but haven't had the motivation yet to play it. I played about 30% of the game when it came out and haven't touched it since then. Maybe Wizfast does make a difference, I remember giving up during some long boring fights.

 

[Sinatar]

Wizfast takes a long boring 45 minute fight and makes into a long boring 35 minute fight. It helps a bit, but the game is still the sloggiest of slogs.

 

[TigerKnee]

What's the general opinion of Faerie Monks? Seems like a great combination, honestly, only hampered by low Strength.

This is pretty damn crippling

 

[Darth Roxor]

> Wiz8 is supa empty
> But Wiz7 and its random giant-ass empty forest mazes is most excellent

 

[Grauken]

I never thought of either game as empty, with so many combat encounters, its rather the other way round

 

[rashiakas]

retardo codex gonna retard, what did you expect.

 

[Lady_Error]

He didn't compare it to 7, learn to read.

 

[Grauken]

I thrive on making unsupported assumption about things people never said

 

[Piotrovitz]

Wizfast takes a long boring 45 minute fight and makes into a long boring 35 minute fight. It helps a bit, but the game is still the sloggiest of slogs.

Use the Wiz Enhanced mod - it speeds up also the combat animations and projectile speed. Game is pretty fast with that.