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Eternity Pillars of Eternity II Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Iskramor

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END/HP would be my choice, but when you have just HP and it regenerates why even have rest in the first place.
HP regenerates afrer combat right? Even if dont you could just rest spam and food bonuses are irelevant knowing josh it would be smth like +5 HP LMAO
 

Iskramor

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First dlc should be chronicles of saint war and durance eder and his brother shoud be main protagonists.
:deathclaw:

None of those characters interacted with one another during the Saint's War. The brothers fought on seperate sides and never in the same battle, and Durance spent all of his time praying and following clandestine instructions from some random god.
Where i said that they interracted??
 
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aweigh

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autist mastermind Pierre already solved this resting problem ages ago with Knights of the Chalice he did the unbelievable!! thing of not allowing resting inside dungeons or combat-only areas unless inside a saferoom

can you fucking imagine that crazy shit!!

EDIT: Yes I fucking know KotC isnt the first game to do this... thats my point. Such a simple solution and it boggles my brain how Sawyer bends over backwards trying to complicate it
 

Ninefingers

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autist mastermind Pierre already solved this resting problem ages ago with Knights of the Chalice he did the unbelievable!! thing of not allowing resting inside dungeons or combat-only areas unless inside a saferoom

can you fucking imagine that crazy shit!!

EDIT: Yes I fucking know KotC isnt the first game to do this... thats my point. Such a simple solution and it boggles my brain how Sawyer bends over backwards trying to complicate it

Cue running out of the dungeon, resting, then running back in after every fight :). At least that’s how I play Arcanum.

:M
 
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aweigh

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Still better solution than anything else Joshy has tried. And for the record Pierre made some dungeons in KOTC lock you in :D
 

Sensuki

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the rest changes started because Josh saw people/customers (he doesn't like it!) rest spamming in IE games, so he went to the PoE system. Then he saw them doing something even worse, backtracking to inns so they could rest spam (he hates it!), so he went to the PoE2 system.

When I told him how I was playing it - reloading after anyone got knocked out, he didn't seem to understand/seemed frustrated by the fact that I wasn't playing it how it was designed :lol:
 

Ninefingers

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That’s an option I suppose! Never played it (KotC) - can you get yourself to a point where you’re fucked and have to restart the dungeon from scratch then? I’m not saying that’s automatically bad design but I can imagine it pissing certain people off.
 
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aweigh

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you should really play knights of the chalice. If you even remotely enjoy isometric turn-based combat (specifically D&D 3.5 edition ala Temple of Elemental Evil) then KotC is simply put the best adaptation ever made for it.

also the game repeatedly tells you to keep multiple saves so its on you. its not for normies so yes I know that sadly making dungeons for grown-ups is out of the question for commercial games.
 
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CptMace

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the rest changes started because Josh saw people/customers (he doesn't like it!) rest spamming in IE games, so he went to the PoE system. Then he saw them doing something even worse, backtracking to inns so they could rest spam (he hates it!), so he went to the PoE2 system.

When I told him how I was playing it - reloading after anyone got knocked out, he didn't seem to understand/seemed frustrated by the fact that I wasn't playing it how it was designed :lol:
I remember Anthony Davis' ... slithly virulent reaction to this on these very boards.
 

Sensuki

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autist mastermind Pierre already solved this resting problem ages ago with Knights of the Chalice he did the unbelievable!! thing of not allowing resting inside dungeons or combat-only areas unless inside a saferoom

can you fucking imagine that crazy shit!!

EDIT: Yes I fucking know KotC isnt the first game to do this... thats my point. Such a simple solution and it boggles my brain how Sawyer bends over backwards trying to complicate it

I liked this in KotC too.

I think D&D5E is on the right track in regards to resting as well.

My ideal resting system for an IE style game would be location-based resting plus two types of rests - quick/short rest to replenish some health and to take the place of 'per-encounter replenishment' and then a full-rest. Clearing/enabling the quick/short-rest location should be designed into locations/quests.

I remember Anthony Davis' ... slithly virulent reaction to this on these very boards.

Yes, he lost his temper a bit, didn't he
 

Ninefingers

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you should really play knights of the chalice. If you even remotely enjoy isometric turn-based combat (specifically D&D 3.5 edition ala Temple of Elemental Evil) then KotC is simply put the best adaptation ever made for it.

also the game repeatedly tells you to keep multiple saves so its on you. its not for normies so yes I know that sadly making dungeons for grown-ups is out of the question for commercial games.

I’ll give it a shot - is it still only available from Pierre’s website?

Also on topicish I didn’t realise Josh was so against backtracking to the inn, seemed like the system all but encouraged it on the harder difficulties by limiting supplies. It’s either that or reloading every fight till it goes perfectly :|.
 
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CptMace

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DD5 is on the right tracks on a lot of things. Main feat is that I finally find it really enjoyable to DM at higher levels.
 
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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
When I told him how I was playing it - reloading after anyone got knocked out, he didn't seem to understand/seemed frustrated by the fact that I wasn't playing it how it was designed :lol:

To each his own and all that BS...but that seems like an uber-autistic way to play any game. My brain hurts just imagining it.
 

Sensuki

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To each his own and all that BS...but that seems like an uber-autistic way to play any game. My brain hurts just imagining it.

How so? It's the same as I played the IE games.

I think the difference of opinion between resting preference & playstyle largely boils down to whether the player (or designer, even) leans more towards being a rest-spammer or a save-scummer (someone may be both, but let's say that there are mutually exclusive groups). People who lean towards being rest spammers like to be at full health/resources for as many fights as possible - looks like Parablus leans this way as evident by his above posts, and save-scummers don't mind not being at full resources/enjoy the challenge of fighting not at 100%, but will reload if the fight doesn't go how they want it to. People who lean towards rest-spamming might be fine with Raise Dead/Resurrection mechanics as they can cast the spell and rest, but people who lean towards being a save scummer will reload if someone dies.
 

frajaq

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And for the record Pierre made some dungeons in KOTC lock you in :D

Would fucking love if this was a thing in PoE 2

Sure it's immersion breaking as fuck but at least it lifts some weight of the devs balancing encounters in the dungeon
 

Parabalus

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To each his own and all that BS...but that seems like an uber-autistic way to play any game. My brain hurts just imagining it.

How so? It's the same as I played the IE games.

I think the difference of opinion between resting preference & playstyle largely boils down to whether the player (or designer, even) leans more towards being a rest-spammer or a save-scummer (someone may be both, but let's say that there are mutually exclusive groups). People who lean towards being rest spammers like to be at full health/resources for as many fights as possible - looks like Parablus leans this way as evident by his above posts, and save-scummers don't mind not being at full resources/enjoy the challenge of fighting not at 100%, but will reload if the fight doesn't go how they want it to. People who lean towards rest-spamming might be fine with Raise Dead/Resurrection mechanics as they can cast the spell and rest, but people who lean towards being a save scummer will reload if someone dies.

So why are you whining? Your playstyle is perfectly supported by both PoE and IE systems, you have no reason to be unhappy.

Not sure where you read I endorse rest spamming - ideally I rest before and after a dungeon, inside only if I fuck up and can't progress more without resources.
 
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CptMace

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I don't think you're alone. Losing a character's inventory capacity and have an entire inventory to pick up is the main reason people reload on character death I assume. Too much tedium, might as well redo the fight.
I surprised myself resurrecting in the middle of fights in TOB:EE because the area-loot built-in cheat made it less tedious to quickly reequip stuff.
 

Ninefingers

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I was mostly irritated in the IE games that when a character dies they drop their entire inventory.

Agreed, this alone usually prompts a reload if I don’t have a ressurect. Unless it’s so early in the game that every character’s inventory isn’t already rammed full of crap.
 

Sensuki

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So why are you whining? Your playstyle is perfectly supported by both PoE and IE systems, you have no reason to be unhappy.

There is a difference between supported and designed around. Sawyer designs for the rest spammer.

Not sure where you read I endorse rest spamming - ideally I rest before and after a dungeon, inside only if I fuck up and can't progress more without resources.

I didn't say you endorsed rest-spamming, but out of the two group classifications I made, you fall into the group that leans more towards being a rest-spammer, even if you dislike rest-spamming - the key detail being the desire to be at optimal resources.
 

Ninefingers

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I was mostly irritated in the IE games that when a character dies they drop their entire inventory.

But where else would their inventory go?


Good question. Could have the inventory tied to the dead party member so that anything you don’t loot from their pile of stuff stays attached to them when they resurrect?

You know, so you can loot them and leave them in chunks if you want, but if you wanted to resurrect them you could just leave it and have them res with all the stuff that was on their corpse. I’m sure it could have been done in a less annoying way anyway.
 
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Parabalus

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So why are you whining? Your playstyle is perfectly supported by both PoE and IE systems, you have no reason to be unhappy.

There is a difference between supported and designed around. Sawyer designs for the rest spammer.

How is supply limited resting, compared to FFA resting in IE games, designing for the rest spammer? In PoE2 resting is even more meaningless.

Both are "nerfs" to rest spamming, in that he reduced the advantage in resources from rest spamming vs "proper" play.

I didn't say you endorsed rest-spamming, but out of the two group classifications I made, you fall into the group that leans more towards being a rest-spammer, even if you dislike rest-spamming - the key detail being the desire to be at optimal resources.

Pretty sure you misread something, I enjoy finite resource pools more. I advocate resting instead of casting heal spells for more than a minute, but that's a Bg2 specific issue.

Thinking about it you are right in your assessment - I like going "all out" at the end of a dungeon. In both PoE and IE games you can conserve enough resources without needing to rest before you get to the end, but if the tuning were more tight I'd prefer a rest if needed. Guess that's some form of limited resting in safe zones, kinda like PoE1 if you started each dungeon with 0 supplies.
 
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Brancaleone

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the rest changes started because Josh saw people/customers (he doesn't like it!) rest spamming in IE games, so he went to the PoE system. Then he saw them doing something even worse, backtracking to inns so they could rest spam (he hates it!), so he went to the PoE2 system.

When I told him how I was playing it - reloading after anyone got knocked out, he didn't seem to understand/seemed frustrated by the fact that I wasn't playing it how it was designed :lol:
Same here.

I guess he saw in it the implicit message: "your '0 stamina=knocked out+invulnerable' system is shit, therefore I just bypass it".
 

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