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Eternity Pillars of Eternity II Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Jenkem

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Make the Codex Great Again! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I helped put crap in Monomyth
The telemetry shows that xaurips are the most killed enemy in the game. This is interesting as it tells us that people must like killing xaurips, so we've gone and added even more xaurips into encounters and even added new encounters exclusively with xaurips. Of course, a change as big as this will need time to balance, so unfortunately we've had to shift the release a few weeks into June.
 

fantadomat

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Come on mate,you know what i mean. Nobody in their right mind will go around sneaking in full armour. The most important thing for sneaking is firm legs,staying crouched for some time is harder than people think.
Indeed. So when you consider the rogue by my definition above, it's not a class who's about sneaking and delving in silent lethal endeavours. And it becomes perfectly fine to build him with heavy armor. Like in the case of a scumbag knight etc.
Also, I didn't mean to say that it's forbidden to sneak in plate armor in ad&d (like, for multiclassing thief/fighter), I expressed myself poorly there. I mean't that plate is forbidden to rogues by default, because yeah they're about sneaking and shit.
If you want to have big sword and plate armour. why don't you play as fighter brigand or something?
Rogues are where the flanking bonuses, blinding strikes etc are. Ie the scumbag tactics.
Unlike what's been said, classes are not interchangeable in this regard. A class might fit a concept better than another.
I get you mate,you want to play a rogue as a life choice and not as a class archetype. The best thing would be if dirty fighting is a skill that rogues could master. Still you should get a amazingly high penalty for sneaking in plate armour. Anyway we got what we got,no amount of finger blisters will change the facts. If you want to play some brigand,kingdom come is the game for you :lol:. I do dislike how poe tackled the matter,the game feels far too dumbed down,no proficiencies,no prebuffs and no unique skills. It is far too simple,oh and magic is shit.
 
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aweigh

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i always forget that people inherently go for LARP stuff like sneaking around in full plate is dumb or that a rogue using a 2hander and using heavy armor goes against something or other: for me everything is just numbers and if there is no penalty for sneaking in full plate... then the thought that it is dumb would never even enter my train of thought.

first i like to see how far i can stretch the game systems and only when ive achieved what (to me) feels like mastery of everything do I go for flavor builds or sub-optimal stuff meant to elicit LARP-oriented permutations of ((fun)). this usually means that its on a 2nd or even 3rd playthrough that I end up playing to type or intentionally gimping a char-build in order to make that unit conform to some literal reasoning.

this is why Im a cautious fan of ((balance)) because for a player like me in PoE 1 it is impossible for me to make a party without a Priest because the Priest class is mandatory for an optimal POTD party--

--therefore this means that since a Priest is mandatory then I have effectively lost that character slot because I will always have to take one with me and that isnt fun. If the player feels like that then the class balance needs more work!

However if the game still manages to be ((fun)) and not-tedious even if the player decides not to make an optimal decision then they at least did parts of the balance pass correctly as we all know that even this basic achievement is not something accomplished by most RPGs.

my very first MC in PoE 1 was precisely a heavy armor-wearing 2-hander wielding Rogue specifically because the game mechanics and itemization rewarded it on a spreadsheet level; thoughts about how this went against type is not something i considered and the fact that the game didnt consider it either was not meaningful to me.
 
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Prime Junta

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the Priest class is mandatory for an optimal POTD party

no it's not
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seriously, it's not
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The priest can be replaced by anyone with sufficient Lore and a bunch of "Prayer against..." scrolls. Everything else the priest brings to the table is dispensable.

I've played PotD with priestless parties -- in fact the first time I finished Pillars on PotD was with such a party -- and it really is no more difficult, as long as you keep those scrolls around.

On that playthrough I was rocking two paladins. This made things pretty easy.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I'd rather clean my nuts with sandpaper than play anything related to late Final Fantasy or any other Jap cringe inducing anime looking abominations. If it's not Dark Souls related I don't want to hear about anything related to Japan anymore, they are producing pure diarrhea lately.

Nioh is pretty nice though. Of course world and area design leaves a bit to be desired in a post-DS world, but otherwise I like the combat and bosses significantly better then in DS so far. Also hub with mission instance based structure was actually not unheard of in the past ages, before DS.
 

Grunker

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I've played PotD with priestless parties -- in fact the first time I finished Pillars on PotD was with such a party -- and it really is no more difficult, as long as you keep those scrolls around.

I played PotD without Priests and scrolls for one playthrough, it was more than doable
 
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CptMace

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Basically, to summarize my point of view, I'd say the debate should be : does a class represent one or several archetypes which should be supported lorewise and mechanically in a suitable manner, or inversely, is a class determined by how it translates through the game systems.

I understand Lacrymas concerns in that regard. He has a specific idea of what rogues are, or how they behave, and having every class get access to all types of gear kind of makes them feel samey, because it indirectly defies the differences as he perceives them. On my side, I'd take into account this universality of armors and weapons and try to translate that into the archetype realm. So I'd base myself on what's specific to each class to see what kind of character customisation it's possible to go for.

There's one thing that I read recently that's interesting to take a look at in deadfire. Sawyer explained that one of their goals in deadfire was to put more unorthodox class combat styles in the game, to show the player that monks could dual weild hammers and shit. In terms of lore integration, or simply for defining these archetypes, it could be a double or nothing situation. If it's properly done then it'd be an actually great achievement as it would adress the problem Lacrymas noted (lack of support through the lore), but I have reasons to be skeptical, the main one being that it sounded like a pure gameplay consideration, and it might ends up as just a random distribution of exotic class representations with little to no proper context. Wait and see.

I don't pretend to be right, but I'd defend the idea that systems alone define a class. Lore considerations should come second, as a result of the exploitation of these systems.

After all, the official description of the rogue in POE :
Rogues are vicious killers, feared for the brutality of their attacks. They can be found as often in dark back alleys as the heart of battlefield skirmishes. Though unpredictable and undisciplined, rogues are commonly used as shock troops or as part of a surprise assault, their withering attacks breaking enemy ranks and morale. Rogues tend to congregate in larger numbers in cities where they can be steadily employed as mercenaries or hired muscle.
 
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Prime Junta

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I played PotD without Priests and scrolls for one playthrough, it was more than doable

It's doable for sure, but the aweigh was talking about 'optimal.' And it does get a lot easier if you can raise one of those immunities when needed.
 
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aweigh

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sure but that aint really my point: im not saying a Priest class is literally mandatory as in you cant finish the game without them... only that (the decision to always reserve a slot for that class) is obviously optimal (or simply too good).

whether something is optimal or not is also another tricky subject because for instance you bring up scrolls and spamming paralyze scrolls is an optimal way to get through encounters however it is too un-fun for me to ever use in a PoE playthrough.
 
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aweigh

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btw im also not a fan of every class having access to Lore (essentially Use Magic Device) and I find it very strange that Sawyer would allow this since hes all about dat balunce.
 

Grunker

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I agree it's optimal, but I think it's much more fun and interesting to play without one (and without scrolls - for the most part).
 

Prime Junta

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sure but that aint really my point: im not saying a Priest class is literally mandatory as in you cant finish the game without them... only that (the decision to always reserve a slot for that class) is obviously optimal (or simply too good).

But I dispute that, at least the "obviously" part. I honestly can't say if it's easier to play with a priest than without one.
 

Parabalus

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sure but that aint really my point: im not saying a Priest class is literally mandatory as in you cant finish the game without them... only that (the decision to always reserve a slot for that class) is obviously optimal (or simply too good).

But I dispute that, at least the "obviously" part. I honestly can't say if it's easier to play with a priest than without one.


Immunities are just a part of what priest offers - there are no replacements for the +ACC, +STAT buffs. Priest damage is also ridiculous - stacked holy Storm of Holy Fire beats most encounters alone. I don't think it's controversial to consider them the strongest class, but in no way essential.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
sure but that aint really my point: im not saying a Priest class is literally mandatory as in you cant finish the game without them... only that (the decision to always reserve a slot for that class) is obviously optimal (or simply too good).

But I dispute that, at least the "obviously" part. I honestly can't say if it's easier to play with a priest than without one.


Immunities are just a part of what priest offers - there are no replacements for the +ACC, +STAT buffs. Priest damage is also ridiculous - stacked holy Storm of Holy Fire beats most encounters alone. I don't think it's controversial to consider them the strongest class, but in no way essential.

True, the Priest buffs are quite crazy and almost mandatory in any serious fight. Debuffs are strong also (if short lived). The game would be immensely more difficult without them, even disregarding the incredibly handy immunities.
 

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