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Eternity Pillars of Eternity II Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Lacrymas

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PoE1 is like the only RPG to ever have tangible benefits to swapping weapons, lol. Outside of immune enemies that is. I switched between 3 different guns on my Ranger and two sets of stilettos on my Priest.
 
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CptMace

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You give a stiletto to your priest ? What kind of stupid roleplaying is that ? Hope AwesomeButton will talk some sense into you, damn maniac.
 

Ulfhednar

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You give a stiletto to your priest ? What kind of stupid roleplaying is that ? Hope AwesomeButton will talk some sense into you, damn maniac.
Normally I would agree, but it's well known that Lacrymas roleplays a priest of Skaen. In that instance, stilettos make perfect sense.
 
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CptMace

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So you mean to say that I could consider giving a scale armor to my rogue in order to build a character inspired by Bronn of the Blackwater ? The... the possibilities of roleplay are not confined by ad&d archetypes ?
 

Ulfhednar

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So you mean to say that I could consider giving a scale armor to my rogue in order to build a character inspired by Bronn of the Blackwater ? The... the possibilities of roleplay are not confined by ad&d archetypes ?
Get ur GoT outta mu PoE, heathen!
 

Parabalus

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There's no point in having a lot of weapons if the player has no incentive to change what they're using now and then. I remember one common criticism of the first game being that if you're a barbarian you buy Tall Grass from a merchant and then you never use another weapon for the rest of your play through

That's like taking Drizzit's Scimitars and complaining there are no better scimitars until ToB content. Or better, taking Celestial Fury and there being no better katana at all unless you need +4 to hit instead of permastun.

JES changed that in PoE2 though, you can't give weapons generic + enchantments anymore.
 

KateMicucci

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Switching between a pike and a mace and a gun is one thing. Switching between two different kinds of swords is another, retarded thing.
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
You give a stiletto to your priest ? What kind of stupid roleplaying is that ? Hope AwesomeButton will talk some sense into you, damn maniac.
Normally I would agree, but it's well known that Lacrymas roleplays a priest of Skaen. In that instance, stilettos make perfect sense.

It's roleplaying that is supported by the mechanics AND the lore, though, it's not simply because you can do it. You pretty much gain nothing mechanically by going greatsword Wizard, nor does the lore support it or plate-armored Rogues. Outside of extra non-squishiness, you also don't gain anything by equipping your Rogue with heavy armor, while you do unlock a completely different playstyle by going Skaen and stilettos.
 
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CptMace

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Regarding rp supported by the lore or not, it ironically sounds like what people claim sawyer aimed to do. That is, forcing people to play some specific archetypes. If you craft your lore and say "hey, rogues are cutthroats and high way brigands, so please play them as such", you're forcing the player to go for this specific archetype.
Yet, when games are designed to do this, they do what ad&d did and straight out forbid the use of specific gear from the get go.

So that sounds like a personal consideration rather than an actual rp golden rule.
And that's without talking of the heresy you displayed there, "it's not about what you want to do" sounds like utter decline.

Mechanically speaking, as you said it yourself, you do gain durability by equipping your rogue with plate. But then again, what matters is the character concept. So if I want to play a rogue knight, it's legitimate to go with a rogue with a zweihander, wearing plate, using dirty tactics to fight. I don't see the problem, frankly.
 

fantadomat

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You give a stiletto to your priest ? What kind of stupid roleplaying is that ? Hope AwesomeButton will talk some sense into you, damn maniac.
Normally I would agree, but it's well known that Lacrymas roleplays a priest of Skaen. In that instance, stilettos make perfect sense.

It's roleplaying that is supported by the mechanics AND the lore, though, it's not simply because you can do it. You pretty much gain nothing mechanically by going greatsword Wizard, nor does the lore support it or plate-armored Rogues. Outside of extra non-squishiness, you also don't gain anything by equipping your Rogue with heavy armor, while you do unlock a completely different playstyle by going Skaen and stilettos.
I doubt that you are roleplaying,more like playing yourself and in the pauses sacrificing some innocent rich guy.
 

Lacrymas

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3E completely did away with lore justification and it was better off for it, but it did immensely benefit from that. Making it possible to equip your Rogue with plate and a greatsword because you can is not the same thing. All it did was muddy the waters and blur the lines between classes too much, especially with Monks. Clear differentiation between classes is the advantage over classless systems, if you want freeform classes there's no point to going class-based. I don't know why a classical Rogue archetype is bad, it's simply what it is, if you want it to be something different then design it from the ground up as something different.
 
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CptMace

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Yeah but here's the thing : you can let players choose to build a specific archetype or another. There's nothing wrong with the typical rogue archetype, it's perfectly supported mechanically.
Now when it comes to class differentiation, it really is arguable. Fighters, Rangers and Paladins and all that. Really, every class of ad&d is either a fighter, a cleric, a thief, a mage or a hybrid/variation.

I mean, take the ranger from poe. One thing that pisses me off with it is that it comes with a fucking pet. The only reason I never build a ranger either as pc or hireling is this damn fucking pet, it straight out forbids a whole sort of ranger archetypes. And it's only here to differentiate the class more than its shallow ad&d counterpart. So it feels unfair to attack the game on this, and it seems to me that there's little to back this idea besides the no-gear-restriction rule, which hurts customisation quite a lot.
 
Last edited:

Lacrymas

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The general simplicity of the classes in AD&D worked very much to their advantage, as even slight differences are psychologically perceived as huge. It also made multi-classing and dual-classing relatively simple to design around, as everything was taken from a large pool of abilities and distributed accordingly (like only having a spell-list of Divine and Arcane spells, with variations on that when needed [Druids]), instead of coming up with huge lists of different abilities for the different classes. There was also the role-playing aspects of it, a Paladin can never be evil for example, but Fighters can, and that's also a powerful factor to consider.

In 3E, you can build a muscle Rogue much more successfully because you aren't trying to color outside the lines of what the devs were going for. I don't think anyone would say that a plate-armored, greatsword-wielding Rogue makes much sense mechanically or lore-wise in PoE1, technically you can do it, but why would you?
 

Sherry

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Hi.

omgosh what is going on right? :argh: no news is good news but this is news but still good news because it allows the polish more of the game but it is very interesting to see the ship being sailed now by someone else right? tsk tsk there is a new captain on board calling the shots it is a .

Mixed emotions though because of kids going back to school on the 3rd of April after a long weekend for Easter and just being able to sit back and relax with a new adventure that continues but now wtf just ha ve to because :(. That is the waiting game for perfection sailing the high seas and fighting ships and following a big statue which will not be hard to follow unless they are walking along the depths of the ocean along the sand and are not tall enough to crest the top of the water with a May release thing changes with gardens and planting just hard with outside world to do make flowers.

Still it gices a lot of people time to complete their game for another saved game result and . because I still have to finish my next adventure with a Cipher it is :hug: . but different and still attached to Lelu barbarian from first completion because it was the first time to play and complete so and the baby too dragons allies made so alot of things going on to looking foward to.

Josh has to right the ship now so little to no worries with the extensxion okay? OKAY! Elite edition looks nice bad timing and could not order last yr. :cry: I would today if they offered and help out.
heart.png


okay santino27 Chris was summoned.

Thanks,
Sherry
 

santino27

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My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.


Détente.


I feel like we at the Codex are directly responsible for this latest positive tweet, in large part due to the absurd amount of attention we gave his tweet regarding Katrina's departure, which prompted MCA's triumphant return to posting here.

And really, isn't that what we're all here for? To make the world a better place?
 

Trashos

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Messages
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Also, first pre-buffing was taken away, and now people (even here) are complaining about having to switch armors/weapons to meet specific challenges? Anybody interested in a system which is not for braindead people? Hello?

It just substitutes one brainless routine for another. I don't know why people are obsessed with being forced to change weapons. Changing weapons in PoE1 came with cool benefits, like AoE damage, marking or other spells and you felt like you are doing something that added to the playstyle, instead of going "ugh, have to change this greatsword to an estoc again for the extra Pen again...." every 5 fights or so.

It's called "knowing your enemy", "adapting to the situation", and "being rewarded for knowing the game systems". Something PoE1, for instance, was missing (although I did change weapons for Ogres and a certain type of beatle, but those were the only cases IIRC). Of course some challenges need to be forcing, otherwise we default to a game where everything works, ie a game for the braindead.
 
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CptMace

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I don't think anyone would say that a plate-armored, greatsword-wielding Rogue makes much sense mechanically or lore-wise in PoE1, technically you can do it, but why would you?
Because I want to play a rogue knight, it's nothing that fancy really. He's heavily armored and wields a huge sword, but he fights like a dick and aims for the crotch.

a Paladin could never be evil for example
If you remember correctly, it's even more restrictive than this.
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
It's called "knowing your enemy", "adapting to the situation", and "being rewarded for knowing the game systems". Something PoE1, for instance, was missing (although I did change weapons for Ogres, but that was the only case IIRC). Of course some challenges need to be forcing, otherwise we default to a game where everything works, ie a game for the braindead.

You can say the same things for pre-buffing, you are just "rewarded for knowing the game systems", but it's a retarded and brainless activity. PoE actually DID incentivize the swapping of weapons in a good way, the only RPG to ever do so and did reward you for knowing the systems and using them to your advantage.


Because I want to play a rogue knight, it's nothing that fancy really. He's heavily armored and wields a huge sword, but he fights like a dick and aims for the crotch.

Sure, but it's not actually supported, you are doing it because you can. You are trying to force the class design to conform to your wishes and it bursts at the seams when doing so. It's just not a good implementation of what you want, as opposed to, say, 3E.
 

santino27

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Patron
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Messages
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My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
Hi.

omgosh what is going on right? :argh: no news is good news but this is news but still good news because it allows the polish more of the game but it is very interesting to see the ship being sailed now by someone else right? tsk tsk there is a new captain on board calling the shots it is a .

Mixed emotions though because of kids going back to school on the 3rd of April after a long weekend for Easter and just being able to sit back and relax with a new adventure that continues but now wtf just ha ve to because :(. That is the waiting game for perfection sailing the high seas and fighting ships and following a big statue which will not be hard to follow unless they are walking along the depths of the ocean along the sand and are not tall enough to crest the top of the water with a May release thing changes with gardens and planting just hard with outside world to do make flowers.

Still it gices a lot of people time to complete their game for another saved game result and . because I still have to finish my next adventure with a Cipher it is :hug: . but different and still attached to Lelu barbarian from first completion because it was the first time to play and complete so and the baby too dragons allies made so alot of things going on to looking foward to.

Josh has to right the ship now so little to no worries with the extensxion okay? OKAY! Elite edition looks nice bad timing and could not order last yr. :cry: I would today if they offered and help out.
heart.png


okay santino27 Chris was summoned.

Thanks,
Sherry

I recognize my username in there, but very little else, including exactly why my username is in there. :D

On the other hand, I'm trying to finish my barbarian playthrough, so I agree a delay to make the sequel better seems a good thing!
 

fantadomat

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I don't see the point of this discussion. If you want to play fighter then play a fighter archetype,if you want to play a rogue with plate armour and great axe,well then you really don't want to play rogue. A rogue archetype is not necessarily a thief,it is a stealthy character that prefers to do the job silently. While you can play any class and be highway man or a bandit as a whole. Everyone being able to use all kind of armour and weapons is kind of lame for party rpg. Nothing is stopping you to play a stupid wizard with two handed sword and plate armour,pumping up the con and str/dex ,the difference will not be huge. And this is retarded. I would prefer to have archetype system in party rpg,that way everyone have some special role in the party. The best way will be to have some kind of extra penalty for using plate armour on a rogue,but being able to do it anyway. It is real shame that PoE doesn't have any weapon/armour proficiencies,everyone is an ok with every weapon and armour...except the fighter,he get a few levels of weapon specialisation...which was useless to me.
 
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CptMace

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Sure, but it's not actually supported, you are doing it because you can. You are trying to force the class design to conform to your wishes and it bursts at the seams when doing so. It's just not a good implementation of what you want, as opposed to, say, 3E.
Of course it's supported, it's just not optimal. Imo at least.
I played a frontline wizard in poe1. Breastplate and concelhaut staff. Early levels were very tough, but he became godlike in the endgame, thanks to citzal stuff. It's very possible to play a muscle wizard, spell mastery at higher levels even makes it less resource-consuming.

A rogue archetype is not necessarily a thief,it is a stealthy character that prefers to do the job silently.
Yeah, or it's just a shady scumbag, with a discutable past, who doesn't play by the rules. See anybody can come up with a fitting definition.
Now if the thief from ad&d was called a rogue, and you asked me what the class was about then, yeah, I'd agree with your definition. They have access to the stealth skill, and it's definitely incompatible with wearing plate... I mean, it's just not allowed to begin with.
 

Trashos

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Messages
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It's called "knowing your enemy", "adapting to the situation", and "being rewarded for knowing the game systems". Something PoE1, for instance, was missing (although I did change weapons for Ogres, but that was the only case IIRC). Of course some challenges need to be forcing, otherwise we default to a game where everything works, ie a game for the braindead.

You can say the same things for pre-buffing, you are just "rewarded for knowing the game systems", but it's a retarded and brainless activity. PoE actually DID incentivize the swapping of weapons in a good way, the only RPG to ever do so and did reward you for knowing the systems and using them to your advantage.

Right, I am a huge fan of bre-buffing, and I missed it a lot in PoE1 (food was lame). It is only retarded, if you build it to be retarded.
Pre-buffing that is good for all fights = bad
Pre-buffing that is tailored for certain situations = awesome

PoE incentivized what?! In 99% of the fights, I couldn't fail even if I tried to.
 

fantadomat

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Edgy Vatnik Wumao
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Messages
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Sure, but it's not actually supported, you are doing it because you can. You are trying to force the class design to conform to your wishes and it bursts at the seams when doing so. It's just not a good implementation of what you want, as opposed to, say, 3E.
Of course it's supported, it's just not optimal. Imo at least.
I played a frontline wizard in poe1. Breastplate and concelhaut staff. Early levels were very tough, but he became godlike in the endgame, thanks to citzal stuff. It's very possible to play a muscle wizard, spell mastery at higher levels even makes it less resource-consuming.

A rogue archetype is not necessarily a thief,it is a stealthy character that prefers to do the job silently.
Yeah, or it's just a shady scumbag, with a discutable past, who doesn't play by the rules. See anybody can come up with a fitting definition.
Now if the thief from ad&d was called a rogue, and you asked me what the class was about then, yeah, I'd agree with your definition. They have access to the stealth skill, and it's definitely incompatible with wearing plate... I mean, it's just not allowed to begin with.
Come on mate,you know what i mean. Nobody in their right mind will go around sneaking in full armour. The most important thing for sneaking is firm legs,staying crouched for some time is harder than people think. If you want to have big sword and plate armour,why don't you play as fighter brigand or something?
It's called "knowing your enemy", "adapting to the situation", and "being rewarded for knowing the game systems". Something PoE1, for instance, was missing (although I did change weapons for Ogres, but that was the only case IIRC). Of course some challenges need to be forcing, otherwise we default to a game where everything works, ie a game for the braindead.

You can say the same things for pre-buffing, you are just "rewarded for knowing the game systems", but it's a retarded and brainless activity. PoE actually DID incentivize the swapping of weapons in a good way, the only RPG to ever do so and did reward you for knowing the systems and using them to your advantage.

Right, I am a huge fan of bre-buffing, and I missed it a lot in PoE1 (food was lame). It is only retarded, if you build it to be retarded.
Pre-buffing that is good for all fights = bad
Pre-buffing that is tailored for certain situations = awesome

PoE incentivized what?! In 99% of the fights, I couldn't fail even if I tried to.
Yup,you are pretty right mate,i even left some battles to go on while doing some IRL things,never lost a fight. Also prebuffing made the games harder because some encounters had to be balanced with buffs in mind. PoE does have really simple mechanics.
 
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CptMace

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Come on mate,you know what i mean. Nobody in their right mind will go around sneaking in full armour. The most important thing for sneaking is firm legs,staying crouched for some time is harder than people think.
Indeed. So when you consider the rogue by my definition above, it's not a class who's about sneaking and delving in silent lethal endeavours. And it becomes perfectly fine to build him with heavy armor. Like in the case of a scumbag knight etc.
Also, I didn't mean to say that it's forbidden to sneak in plate armor in ad&d (like, for multiclassing thief/fighter), I expressed myself poorly there. I mean't that plate is forbidden to rogues by default, because yeah they're about sneaking and shit.
If you want to have big sword and plate armour. why don't you play as fighter brigand or something?
Rogues are where the flanking bonuses, blinding strikes etc are. Ie the scumbag tactics.
Unlike what's been said, classes are not interchangeable in this regard. A class might fit a concept better than another.
 

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