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Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
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Boosting magic skills and spellbook swapping aside, I'm more wondering if having frontline melees without ninjutsu is a good idea later on.

FWIW, I had ninjutsu on only one frontliner in Wiz7 and I didn't use it almost at all.

Eternal brofist if the Lo Pan is a reference to big trouble in little china haha

what else would it be lol
 

Leitz

Learned
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
350
Hi, is it possible to sell or lose quest items in Wiz8; just wondering. Lemme rephrase that: everything that doesn't get a message like in the prequels is save to sell?
 

CallMeSnek

Novice
Joined
Sep 13, 2017
Messages
17
Playing Wizardry V (PS1, New Age of Llylgamyn).

I just got to the pool that gives you spell charges (apparently up to 9, even above your maximum!). This seems to be game-breaking. What exactly is stopping me from just spamming the highest level damage and healing, and teleporting back to refuel whenever I like?
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
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gSnAo4m.png


Dragon Magazine #65, September 1982 :obviously:
 

Dorateen

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The money shot is the line in the first paragraph, "Adventuring is very similar to a D&D or AD&D game".

There are developers, and others, who would be apoplectic at the suggestion a Dungeon Crawler like Wizardry is in fact a role-playing game, further legitimized by the definitive publication from the dawn of the hobby.
 

kmonster

Augur
Joined
May 24, 2010
Messages
316
So sticking to pure classes in 7 and going multi only with obvious combos like priest>valk shouldn't give me hard times?
Boosting magic skills and spellbook swapping aside, I'm more wondering if having frontline melees without ninjutsu is a good idea later on.
Depends on whether you prefer using exploits over playing games the honest way. Combat isn't the problem in W7, simply grind if you're too weak.
 

Ventidius

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
552
So sticking to pure classes in 7 and going multi only with obvious combos like priest>valk shouldn't give me hard times?
Boosting magic skills and spellbook swapping aside, I'm more wondering if having frontline melees without ninjutsu is a good idea later on.
Depends on whether you prefer using exploits over playing games the honest way. Combat isn't the problem in W7, simply grind if you're too weak.

Wait, are you referring to the multiclassing as "exploits"? You are kidding, right? The multiclassing system is the single most interesting aspect of Wiz 6 and 7, especially since the de-emphasis in dungeon crawling on those games made party building and development their effective centerpiece. If you are just trying to say that newbies need not be intimidated by it and that it is perfectly viable to clear these games without class changing, I would agree, but frankly, if anyone is going to play these games at all and is willing and able to learn the system, they should dabble on the multiclassing as it makes the games much more interesting.
 

Dorateen

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especially since the de-emphasis in dungeon crawling on those games

I disagree that Wizardry 6 and 7 de-emphasize dungeon crawling. In comparison, Elminage Gothic allows the player to save anywhere, so that aspect certainly does not make it less of a dungeon crawler, along with its multiple dungeons instead of just one monolithic location. Elminage also has three different types of automaps, from one-use to semi-breakable and unlimited. Thus, Crusader's inventory and skill-driven automap does not make the game less of a dungeon crawler either. Wizardry 7 did introduce a massive overworld, which is as much a dungeon crawling (with a skybox) experience as any.
 
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aweigh

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my all-time favorite item in a Wizardry game is the Helm of Teleportation (or Helm of Malor) from Wizardry Empire 2

when you equip the Helm of Malor after an indefinite amount of steps (random count but usually 1-3 steps) it will teleport you to a random part of the dungeon !



what I find most devilish about it is the fact that it can teleport you precisely where you want to go (several floors ahead) or into a wall its all random.

The helm itself has good stats as well.

Also this is the same playthrough where Dorateen turned into a fucking ghost after dying from me bumping into some wall-bombs in a dark zone. :salute:



:rage:
 
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Ventidius

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especially since the de-emphasis in dungeon crawling on those games

I disagree that Wizardry 6 and 7 de-emphasize dungeon crawling. In comparison, Elminage Gothic allows the player to save anywhere, so that aspect certainly does not make it less of a dungeon crawler, along with its multiple dungeons instead of just one monolithic location. Elminage also has three different types of automaps, from one-use to semi-breakable and unlimited. Thus, Crusader's inventory and skill-driven automap does not make the game less of a dungeon crawler either. Wizardry 7 did introduce a massive overworld, which is as much a dungeon crawling (with a skybox) experience as any.

Well, de-emphasis is not the same as outright elimination, dungeon crawling certainly exists in these games. Also, I don't really think saving and mapping have anything to do with a game being a dungeon crawler, and EG is hardly unique in that as many others in the sub-genre do it like Dark Spire, Dungeon Travelers 2, and Icewind Dale. I don't even think rest-anywhere systems (less common in Japanese Wiz-clones) do either, though they do hurt one of the design strengths of these games, e.g. resource management. What I do think is that Bradley was not primarily concerned with refining dungeon design as the core gameplay element of the series, unlike both old Sir-Tech and their Japanese successors. The progress in the complexity of dungeon design is noticeable from Proving Grounds to V to Elminage Original to Gothic. Bradley, on the other hand, was not interested in pushing this forward since he was preoccupied with other things like NPCs, questing, puzzles, etc. Thus 6 can hardly be said to have built upon the complexity of 5's dungeon design at all, even if some of that complexity was admittedly retained, to that extent calling it a de-emphasis of dungeon crawling is not unreasonable.
 
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aweigh

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Frankly speaking the best dungeon in Wiz 6 is the Castle starting area and even that pales in comparison to anything from any other Wizardry. Areas like the Mines and the Mountains are pretty fucking bad as far as dungeons go and the end-game areas are very forgettable.

Wiz 7 fares even less well in dungeon design (I find it a very clunky and tedious game to navigate with tons of busywork) but to at least give Wiz 7 some due credit it is very obvious that the game itself is experimental in design and ambitious in scope.

(Though in my opinion it fails to meet its goals and I think Bradley achieved them better in Wiz & Warriors).

The thing is that Bradley changed the fundamental way Wiz mechanics worked (rest anywhere downgrade and casting system downgrade and inventory management now tied to attributes plus the removal of fixed encounters and lastly the changes to the loot system and simplified itemization) -- plus the aforementioned banality of the dungeon areas such as they are in 6 and 7 -- a consolidation of changes that dont coalesce as tightly or as elegantly as the normal Wizardry systems.

As evidenced by Wiz 8 perhaps part of Bradleys problem was that he didnt go far enough in changing the game mechanics: in Wiz 8 the gameplay is nothing like any Wizardry game before as it focuses on 3D space and movement mechanics and replaced previous systems with new ones that didnt depend on legacy but provided their own.

Where in a normal dungeon crawler a big aspect of the game psyche is comprised of attrition and resource management in Wiz 8 this was replaced with a brand new take on the traditional phase-based combat that fully took advantage of the new 3D space and the tactical layer was completely overtaken by a newfound focus on 3D formations and positioning which enhanced an existing legacy of ranks and rows and weapon reach.

Then on the other hand we have the japanese entries (Wiz Empire and Wiz Gaiden and the current Elminage series) which took the gameplay from Wiz 5 and Wiz 6 and have added new systems such as item crafting and enchantment and a Summoner class which engages in gotta-catch-em-all with the game bestiary... along with an organic refinement and polish of the best parts of Wiz 5 and Wiz 6 by cherry-picking the best stuff from the old and from the new and taking everything to their logical highly-polished conclusion.

Personally I enjoy the Wiz 5 + Wiz 6 marriage of game play more than the Wiz 8 focus on 3D space as I find that the former offers a tighter yet (ironically maybe/) more nuanced experience; but I find both enjoyable and would most definitely welcome with my wallet new entries that take after them.
 
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Ventidius

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Frankly speaking the best dungeon in Wiz 6 is the Castle starting area and even that pales in comparison to anything from any other Wizardry. Areas like the Mines and the Mountains are pretty fucking bad as far as dungeons go and the end-game areas are very forgettable.

Wiz 7 fares even less well in dungeon design (I find it a very clunky and tedious game to navigate with tons of busywork) but to at least give Wiz 7 some due credit it is very obvious that the game itself is experimental in design and ambitious in scope.

(Though in my opinion it fails to meet its goals and I think Bradley achieved them better in Wiz & Warriors).

The thing is that Bradley changed the fundamental way Wiz mechanics worked (rest anywhere downgrade and casting system downgrade and inventory management now tied to attributes plus the removal of fixed encounters and lastly the changes to the loot system and simplified itemization) -- plus the aforementioned banality of the dungeon areas such as they are in 6 and 7 -- a consolidation of changes that dont coalesce as tightly or as elegantly as the normal Wizardry systems.

Pretty much this, and I think the last point is especially important. I mean, yes, the dungeons are not as good and that is a big deal, but the sum of the parts is always the bottom line on the quality of a given product. There is a purity and simplicity to the traditional Wiz formula that makes it both accessible and yet capable of supporting great complexity and variation, the mark of elegant design. Those who wonder why the Japanese consistently imitate this model rather than the 6-8 should keep that in mind as this elegance is what makes it so universal and easy to export and customize.

Then on the other hand we have the japanese entries (Wiz Empire and Wiz Gaiden and the current Elminage series) which took the gameplay from Wiz 5 and Wiz 6 and have added new systems such as item crafting and enchantment and a Summoner class which engages in gotta-catch-em-all with the game bestiary... along with an organic refinement and polish of the best parts of Wiz 5 and Wiz 6 by cherry-picking the best stuff from the old and from the new and taking everything to their logical highly-polished conclusion.

Not to mention EX Skills and Innocent gear. It really is remarkable how many elements they have added to the formula without distorting it. I do think that an expansion of the class roster is overdue though, perhaps some more classic archetypes like Barbarian, Druid, or Psionic.

Personally I enjoy the Wiz 5 + Wiz 6 marriage of game play more than the Wiz 8 focus on 3D space as I find that the former offers a tighter yet (ironically maybe/) more nuanced experience; but I find both enjoyable and would most definitely welcome with my wallet new entries that take after them.

It's not just the fact that it is tighter and more nuanced though. I mean, combat blobbers are okay, but they are kind of suboptimal compared to combat-centric games that use isometric/grid engines, like JA2 and the Gold Box games, the blob engine lends itself much better for a dungeon-crawling experience with heavy resource management and high-speed, high-frequency combat. I do think that Wiz 8 is one of the RPGs with better combat out there, but then again, the same could also be said of BG2 with its also suboptimal RTwP engine, and in both cases that probably says more about the state of RPG combat than anything.

Oh god, aweigh got a clone. Run for your lives!

The man brought a lot of these facts to light no doubt, but they don't belong to him, or anyone for that matter.
 
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Matador

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Frankly speaking the best dungeon in Wiz 6 is the Castle starting area and even that pales in comparison to anything from any other Wizardry. Areas like the Mines and the Mountains are pretty fucking bad as far as dungeons go and the end-game areas are very forgettable.

.

Quote for truth. Wizardry 6 starts so strong with the first dungeon that everything that comes after is a disappointment. The mines specially are so fucking annoying that almost made me quit the game. Fortunately the great combat, monsters and character system keep the game alive. The mines problem would not be so great if you had some smart shortcuts instead of all the boring backtracking through that unsufferable maze.

Why not reward the player's exploration advances? That was even in the first game on the series in 1981! I use this to remember the great level design of that primitve game. Finding items to have access to shortcuts to get faster to deeper floors was a landmark in level design. What a great dungeon, despite the filler levels.

I guess is much better to go up and down several times through previously explored confusing floors...

Wizardry 8 also has a great first dungeon, and after that is wilderness and open boring areas with the ocasionally good area.
 
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aweigh

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Some music from the orchestral soundtracks of the Wizardry remakes of Wiz 4 and Wiz 5 for Playstation:

(This track is the awesome brass and trumpets that thunders on the 1st Dungeon Floor of Wiz 4 PS1 version: MAZE #1)


(This track is the really nice melody that plays in the shop in Wiz 5 PS1 version: TRADING POST MEDLEY)


Here is a link to the full orchestral OST of the PS1 remakes of Wizardry 4 and 5:


---

Some music from SNES versions of Wizardry 1-3:

(This track is the music that plays when you leave the town menu: EDGE OF TOWN MEDLEY)


(This track is the music that plays when you bring up the camp menu: CAMP MEDLEY)
 

SophosTheWise

Cipher
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
522
So, I wanna play Wizardry 8. Never played a Wiz game before, at least not for longer than a few minutes. Are there any essential/recommended mods?
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
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yep, wizfast is a must

that's p. much all of it when it comes to the essentials
 

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