Eternity Pillars of Eternity II Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[existential_vacuum]

You forgot "Hŵrpa Dwrp".

Indeed I did, holy fuck. Updating right now.

 

[Infinitron]

Should be "Hŵrpa Dwrp lore hyperlink". :D

 

[Background Character]

I can't wait for april the 4th

 

[Sensuki]

That guy is an idiot

 

[Sheepherder]

So I went back 6 pages and couldn't find anyone who reposted this incredible rant about Durance:

Spoiler

I think this argument actually boils down to who views the game's narrative as just that - an ongoing narrative to be engaged with - and who sees it as trappings draped over the metagame.

Because arguments like "Just go into the mechanics and take him out of your party" or "just use the attack option to kill him and shout "fuck you" at the screen" is missing the point harder then I could've imagined, an only really makes sense in this argument.

The reason those answers aren't satisfying is because they're not happening at the narrative level. Durance literally just tells you to your face "

what really owned was when you were a slave, because you deserved it," and there's jack shit you can do on the narrative level about it. You can only ever engage on the metagame level, meaning the actual narrative of the game does not reflect on or respect that choice. It's like arguing that the gnome quest in Arcanum otally has a satisfying end, you can just go around and aimlessly kill all the gnome NPCs in the game. It really, really isn't the same. This is also, ultimately, what I mean when I say that Durance is a character from a book, not a game - because Durance doesn't play off the character. He demands you follow along with his narrative, or else you can't play with him, and while all characters to some degree have their own narrative that you have to engage with, it's different with an NPC who's entire narrative is "you're gonna hate him."

It again reflects on all the arguments I see of "but he's such an interesting character!" Yeah - to READ about. And if you treat the game's storyline as a thing separate from the act of playing the game itself - if the storyline is just something you're passively reading - then it's fine. But if you try to actually roleplay the roleplaying game, you start hitting walls FAST, and they're basically all tied to Durance outside of a few other places. Pillars 1 IS generally built up on the expectation that players can be herded into groups of choices and will find those choices acceptable; "which of the three factions do you want to join?" might not have been done in the best way, but presenting those choices to you works; "I have to choose one of the three because all three hate each other and would never work together" works to explain why you can only choose one. But Durance has no choices. There are no options to roleplay with Durance. You are just passively accepting his story that mostly involves murdering a lot of people and throwing racial slurs at you. You have no choice to effect this story - you can only decide not to take it. And while again you could argue it's the same for, say, Eder, the difference is that Eder's character doesn't DEMAND reactions.

See, I don't think it's smart or well written to make a character who constantly makes demands of you, and the game never allows you to interact with it. That's just dumb and cowardly. It's hiding by making your NPC narratively untouchable. Again, it's effectively plot armor - this character is not allowed to be Wrong. Oh, they'll be not right a whole lot, but the actual game's narrative never actually connects to this and is never honest about it.

Look at Durance's character, how you meet him and how the game treats him. He's a crazy priest, but uh oh, he has a mysterious power nobody can fully comprehend! And he argues for crazy things but you can't actually prove him wrong! And he has a SPECIAL relationship with his god that nobody else ever has had. And he was part of a SPECIAL order, that nobody else knows about or has heard about. Oh, that super important event that happened to define the part of the setting we're in? Oh, he TOTALLY had a part to play there, a super important part, maybe the most important part?. He's also super rude, gross, and offensive, but nobody ever actually gives him consequences for it, and he goes on to be one of the most powerful characters in the game. I mean, EVERYONE hates him, but they still have to put up with him, and they'll need him in the end.

Durance is a goddamn mary sue for goons.

What do you think guys, is Durance a mary sue?

Nah, he has shit stats for a priest and his Holy radiance scales like crap.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[frajaq]

that bingo is not fun we can already predict 100% some of them

 

[CptMace]

I find your question weird here Infinitron. I always consider that having little info on areas, islands, content in general is a good thing. I like to go blind in these things, which is also why I haven't played the beta that much.
Also I understand people would be worried in these situations, I consider them way more desirable than the one in which I find myself saying "oh yeah, that place" while on a first blind playthrough.

 

[Sacred82]

hi Josh, is it possible you don't have a game at all and you're going to keep blowing through release dates for the next 15 years, and when you release it will take another 10 years for you to release a manual?


Asking for a friend

 

[CptMace]

inb4 at least grimoire is actually fun

 

[fantadomat]

inb4 at least grimoire is actually fun

Better than the manual?

 

[Jenkem]

Between the releases of Kingdom Come: Deliverance and Grimoire: Heralds of the Winged Exemplar, it must be difficult to be Josh Sawyer now.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

So I went back 6 pages and couldn't find anyone who reposted this incredible rant about Durance:

Spoiler

I think this argument actually boils down to who views the game's narrative as just that - an ongoing narrative to be engaged with - and who sees it as trappings draped over the metagame.

Because arguments like "Just go into the mechanics and take him out of your party" or "just use the attack option to kill him and shout "fuck you" at the screen" is missing the point harder then I could've imagined, an only really makes sense in this argument.

The reason those answers aren't satisfying is because they're not happening at the narrative level. Durance literally just tells you to your face "

what really owned was when you were a slave, because you deserved it," and there's jack shit you can do on the narrative level about it. You can only ever engage on the metagame level, meaning the actual narrative of the game does not reflect on or respect that choice. It's like arguing that the gnome quest in Arcanum otally has a satisfying end, you can just go around and aimlessly kill all the gnome NPCs in the game. It really, really isn't the same. This is also, ultimately, what I mean when I say that Durance is a character from a book, not a game - because Durance doesn't play off the character. He demands you follow along with his narrative, or else you can't play with him, and while all characters to some degree have their own narrative that you have to engage with, it's different with an NPC who's entire narrative is "you're gonna hate him."

It again reflects on all the arguments I see of "but he's such an interesting character!" Yeah - to READ about. And if you treat the game's storyline as a thing separate from the act of playing the game itself - if the storyline is just something you're passively reading - then it's fine. But if you try to actually roleplay the roleplaying game, you start hitting walls FAST, and they're basically all tied to Durance outside of a few other places. Pillars 1 IS generally built up on the expectation that players can be herded into groups of choices and will find those choices acceptable; "which of the three factions do you want to join?" might not have been done in the best way, but presenting those choices to you works; "I have to choose one of the three because all three hate each other and would never work together" works to explain why you can only choose one. But Durance has no choices. There are no options to roleplay with Durance. You are just passively accepting his story that mostly involves murdering a lot of people and throwing racial slurs at you. You have no choice to effect this story - you can only decide not to take it. And while again you could argue it's the same for, say, Eder, the difference is that Eder's character doesn't DEMAND reactions.

See, I don't think it's smart or well written to make a character who constantly makes demands of you, and the game never allows you to interact with it. That's just dumb and cowardly. It's hiding by making your NPC narratively untouchable. Again, it's effectively plot armor - this character is not allowed to be Wrong. Oh, they'll be not right a whole lot, but the actual game's narrative never actually connects to this and is never honest about it.

Look at Durance's character, how you meet him and how the game treats him. He's a crazy priest, but uh oh, he has a mysterious power nobody can fully comprehend! And he argues for crazy things but you can't actually prove him wrong! And he has a SPECIAL relationship with his god that nobody else ever has had. And he was part of a SPECIAL order, that nobody else knows about or has heard about. Oh, that super important event that happened to define the part of the setting we're in? Oh, he TOTALLY had a part to play there, a super important part, maybe the most important part?. He's also super rude, gross, and offensive, but nobody ever actually gives him consequences for it, and he goes on to be one of the most powerful characters in the game. I mean, EVERYONE hates him, but they still have to put up with him, and they'll need him in the end.

Durance is a goddamn mary sue for goons.

What do you think guys, is Durance a mary sue?

were gnomes in arcanum meant to be an allegory for jews?

 

[Immortal]

Only 80 Hours?

I can't wait to explore 60 islands of quickly made forest maps stuffed with monsters.

 

[CptMace]

lol k

 

[Quillon]

Pillars of Eternity 2: Heartfire



Oohh I've seen Durance and I've seen Eder
I've seen descriptive writings that I thought would never end
I've seen loading times when I could just fall asleep
But I'll have PoE2 to have a waifu again!

 

[Ruzen]

Deep down everyone is a bid Obsidian fan
:selfhate:

 

[FreeKaner]

If beta patch doesn't hit this week it's definitely over for PoE2: deadgame.

 

[Parabalus]

If beta patch doesn't hit this week it's definitely over for PoE2: deadgame.

Is Resolve still lottery simulator or did JES revert that?

 

[FreeKaner]

If beta patch doesn't hit this week it's definitely over for PoE2: deadgame.

Is Resolve still lottery simulator or did JES revert that?

It's worse than that, the patch that Sawyer said he will make resolve apply empower isn't even applied yet.

 

[Lacrymas]

It was just a suggestion, I don't think they've come to the stupid, stupid decision to actually implement it.

 

[fantadomat]

Only 80 Hours?

I can't wait to explore 60 islands of quickly made forest maps stuffed with monsters.

I wouldn't be surprised if most of them in text adventure form.

 

[Prime Junta]

jesus fuck you edgelords

P2 may/will have a bunch of d or otherwise flawed mechanical revisions, and the writing might be a bit kipi on the tekehupu, but it's bloody unlikely the maps, encounters, or what have you are going to feel like a padded rush job. They've had tons of time to work on them, they're thoroughly familiar with the toolset and production pipeline, and they've been underpromising what we appear to be getting. Early on Josh was talking about 30 hours or thereabouts, now he's at 80 going on 100.

Whatever its flaws may be, P2 isn't going to be a T:ToN.

 

[Mazisky]

I wonder what will happen if Poe2 turns out to be good.

 

[fantadomat]

I will be very happy,RPG incline beats my ego in the importance category. I will be happy to admit that i was wrong. I would rather play a great 100 hours rpg and bitch about it for 20 hours than to play 20 hours mediocre shlock and bitch about it for a 100 hours.