Order these games by how bad their writing is

[Jimmious]

I'm still expecting Lacrymas essay/post in here

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

The gripes I have regarding loredumps is that often the NPC doesn't match what they're spouting. Like, a bartender is a bartender and obviously not a disguised scholar. If I ask some frumpy barkeep about some king, I expect a rather simple answer that doesn't make them sound like they're highly educated. Now, if I ask some actual academic NPC about that same king then I'd be fine with a more expansive answer and actually expect it.

So while the player does make the decision to ask about something regarding the lore of the land, it's when that commoner who initially spoke piss-poor English suddenly pounces the text box with the fucking Silmarillion that it makes me want to take an acid bath.

Oh, and as for the topic since I'm dumb as FUCK and forgot to answer it (I've not played Kingdom or Elex yet due to work), here's worst to best:

Pillars of Eternity: It simply never grabbed me and I slogged through it the entire way. I absolutely despised how they gave all those backers their own little NPC stories through the memory gimmick especially since it never could be followed up on. The only writing I enjoyed was Durance's stuff, everything else was filler to me.

Divinity: OS2: It's not far behind PoE, in fact in many ways it's worse or as bad but at least there's not too much of it to wade through which makes for some nice speed-reading. The highlight was when I thought I was giving the grizzled and calm ranger some brofisting banter and then he wondered if I wanted to suck his animal-whispering cock. At long last, Lord Larian made me laugh.

Icewind Dale: Honestly, I kind of like IWD's writing. I think it may be due to the much more grounded plot compared to the BG games, particularly BG2. It's a fun, to the point adventure and it does have Tony Jay in it and Tony Jay makes everything better than it has any business being. But yeah, the writing reflects that and offers some amusing "fuck off" options.

Age of Decadence: I had and continue to have a fuckload of fun with this game. Love it, one of my favourite purchases in the past two years by far. The writing can feel like it drags on some but the setting and way it's conveyed has kept it interesting in those first few playthroughs especially which is all I really ask if you're going to have a lot of reading in your game.

The Witcher 3: I'm a fan of the novels so this is an easy choice in the end. As another poster mentioned, the body language through animations and great voice acting helps give the writing that extra shine and delivery.

 

[ilitarist]

I’ll admit there is a skin-deep thematic resemblance, but the emphasis there is on skin-deep. And theme != style.

Geez, calm down. Yes, I was talking about theme, but I don't see why you'd be so angry. Divinity world is basically Terry Pratchett world with serial numbers removed. It's a story where people are involved in some serious and dangerous, sometimes world-defying stories, but it's full of silly moments, silly characters and silly events. DOS2 takes some things quite seriously and you still sometimes see things that look like actual Pratchett's writing. The point is this kind of humorous fantasy is easier to do and less offensive than serious straight face fantasy. When it fails it's still ok, while every other game on the list has to do a job of making me believe its world is real and consistent.

 

[ilitarist]

You're being selectively exacting on AoD's writing. I think your criticism is applicable to all the other games. If dialogue in books/movies/games was written and spoken like we speak in everyday conversations it would have been much harder to understand and wouldn't capture the attention like it does. This, and I repeat again - the loredump you are pointing out, as well as a few other loredumps, are requested by the player, and are not critical to finishing a quest - i.e. no one will test your knowledge as a player, of what you read - like they test it in PST or KCD for a most recent example.

The problem with AoD is it's inconsistent in that regard. Sometimes you talk to NPC and he reacts with one-liners as if it's a Tarantino movie. Sometimes you have a real dialogue (even though usually you have little choice). But sometimes - often with the same one-liner NPCs - you stand there and listen to NPC declamations.

Even Neverwinter Nights 1 realized how to do that stuff better - they told you story in parts and your character could ask some clarifying question, express an opinion on what they heard or just simply say "Go on". This gives you at least some sort of illusion of participating in dialogue.

 

[AwesomeButton]

The problem with AoD is it's inconsistent in that regard. Sometimes you talk to NPC and he reacts with one-liners as if it's a Tarantino movie. Sometimes you have a real dialogue (even though usually you have little choice). But sometimes - often with the same one-liner NPCs - you stand there and listen to NPC declamations.

Even Neverwinter Nights 1 realized how to do that stuff better - they told you story in parts and your character could ask some clarifying question, express an opinion on what they heard or just simply say "Go on". This gives you at least some sort of illusion of participating in dialogue.

I agree it's inconsistent, but for me this conveyed the character of the person I'm speaking to. I don't expect a thug to be very eloquent, while I expect a bartender to have a trained style in spinning stories which he has already told and retold numerous times. In the absense of character and face animations, and only the portrait and text available to present you with the NPC's character, what seems like inconsistency in their style is actually what characterises them.

NWN1, funny that you mention it. It's the game I'd say D:OS2 is most similar to in terms of its writing.

 

[SionIV]

I feel like a lot of people underestimate the writing in Icewind Dale. While it was more of a dungeon crawl than Baldur's Gate, it has a solid story and some good writing. It isn't at a Planescape Torment level, but it is far from bad. There are some interesting dialogues, along with some great item descriptions. The item descriptions are way above what you find in most other games. The game oozes atmosphere and has good combat, but the writing is there as well.

 

[fantadomat]

Must say that IWD writing is pretty good but it is not much and important.

This is some very solid writing,far better than most of the modern tosh that comes out.

 

[ilitarist]

Unlike NWN1 DOS has a lot of dialogues affected by various circumstances, more so than any other RPG I can think of. This made writing feel much more natural. It also evaded recent RPG problem of throwing text walls on you and used the narrator voice in such a way that you weren't irritaded by blend of voiced and not voiced lines. It's not quite about writing itself but it helps to appreciate DOS2 writing.

Also NWN1 to make its characters interesting. Apart from Aribeth and couple of companions I remember nothing at all from it, and Aribeth was on the cover and was reintroduced in the expansion. DOS2 has a lot of memorable characters - most of them are playable/party members but still there are quite a few others many of whom can be remembered. Come to think of it, I remember much more from that Shadows of Undrentide expansion, that annoying talking sword and all. Maybe you meant that, it was quite similar to DOS2 indeed in a way the story escalated and lightheartedness.

 

[Zlaja]

Witcher 3 made me *feel*

Made me feel too. Between my legs. Thanks Yen!

Fun fact:
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/XdrnL

Face was originally intended to be based on 3D scan of Polish model Klaudia Wróbel, however after initial in game tests I decided to reshape the face looking for more colder and mean look.

This wasn't cold enough?

 

[Zer0wing]

P.S. what's up with this forum filling up with "people who *take offence*" lately? Fuck you all

Sounds like something coming from an offended person. No offense.

Spoiler

You're being selectively exacting on AoD's writing. Yadda-Yadda

I need to pinpoint that out because it's one of those dragging stones tackled onto otherwise excellent script, to be short.

 

[Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd]

Pillars of Eternity (worst)
Divinity: Original Sin 2
Elex
Witcher 3
Kingdom Come: Deliverance
Age of Decadence
Icewind Dale (best)

 

[agris]

AwesomeButton Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd and others

I agree that the narrated sections in IWD are amazing - but that's due to the delivery more than the actual text itself. The descriptions of some items are also compelling, but I'd argue that most of them are neither good nor bad, but rather fine. That's not a condemnation - in a world where Larian and Obsidian are championed for making "oldschool" rpgs, I would take 'meh' over their output any day of the week.

I could go on but part of the allure of the item descriptions is their novelty. And not just the text, but the entire presentation, as if you're unfolding a scroll to learn the history of the thing including a goddamn naturalist-style pencil sketch. The net impact of the way items are presented in the BGs and IWD is greater than the sum of its parts. I don't mention PST because the aesthetics of item descriptions don't quite do it for me - but that's not a game driven by itemization the same way the others I mentioned were.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I agree that the narrated sections in IWD are amazing - but that's due to the delivery more than the actual text itself. The descriptions of some items are also compelling, but I'd argue that most of them are neither good nor bad, but rather fine. That's not a condemnation - in a world where Larian and Obsidian are championed for making "oldschool" rpgs, I would take 'meh' over their output any day of the week.

I don't disagree by any means. Actually I've made the very same argument in another conversation, when I was pondering why do some stories (like IWD's story) grab you even if they are nothing inventive - the same story can count as either as a "classic" and as banal and cliche, depending on how it's told. Even The Elder Scrolls Online's story sounded intriguing to me, but... it was a story narrated by none other than Ian McKellen :D

About the importance of item descriptions (and sketches for illustration) -- this is something I was very vocal about during PoE's beta in 2014-2015, because I recognize the importance of the presentation exactly like you say. This was to the extent that I asked a non-professional to draw sketches of an armor and a helmet, just to see how long it would take to draw these for the game, if anyone would be assigned to. You can do a reasonably good sketch in 30 minutes. A professional, with some practice of drawing medieval weapons may need even less. The argument with PoE was "there is no time to devote to sketches". I also maintained that item stats should be placed below the description, not above it, so that there is more chance that the player gets some of the roleplaying-related text before he gets to the stats. Of course, no one bothered to listen to me.

 

[fantadomat]

AwesomeButton Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd and others

I agree that the narrated sections in IWD are amazing - but that's due to the delivery more than the actual text itself. The descriptions of some items are also compelling, but I'd argue that most of them are neither good nor bad, but rather fine. That's not a condemnation - in a world where Larian and Obsidian are championed for making "oldschool" rpgs, I would take 'meh' over their output any day of the week.

I could go on but part of the allure of the item descriptions is their novelty. And not just the text, but the entire presentation, as if you're unfolding a scroll to learn the history of the thing including a goddamn naturalist-style pencil sketch. The net impact of the way items are presented in the BGs and IWD is greater than the sum of its parts. I don't mention PST because the aesthetics of item descriptions don't quite do it for me - but that's not a game driven by itemization the same way the others I mentioned were.

Yeah it is delivered a lot different that the rest of the rpg genre....in dialogue options.....fascinating,isn't. You are just talking nonsense mate, the games are very well written by a person that learned to write by reading real books and lived life. Unlike most modern day tumblr dropouts. I do remember more things from action rpg like IWD than from PoE or DOS games,while i am trying to forget numanuma. It doesn't get the first place because it is not the focus of the game even if it is maybe the best one.

 

[agris]

About the importance of item descriptions (and sketches for illustration) -- this is something I was very vocal about during PoE's beta in 2014-2015, because I recognize the importance of the presentation exactly like you say. This was to the extent that I asked a non-professional to draw sketches of an armor and a helmet, just to see how long it would take to draw these for the game, if anyone would be assigned to. You can do a reasonably good sketch in 30 minutes. A professional, with some practice of drawing medieval weapons may need even less. The argument with PoE was "there is no time to devote to sketches". I also maintained that item stats should be placed below the description, not above it, so that there is more chance that the player gets some of the roleplaying-related text before he gets to the stats. Of course, no one bothered to listen to me.

Completely agree - I think we were posting in the same thread on the OBS boards. I asked if they could at least implement the backend programming to support users adding images to the item description at a later date. Do you have any idea if that's been done? I *think* I read that soulbound items have sketches. Too bad soulbound items is a MMO mechanic designed such that EVERYONE WINS and no one feels left out (BAD feelings, yo!) based on their weapon proficiency.

You are just talking nonsense mate

That's IWD2...

 

[Raghar]

Writing or story?
For example Far Cry 3 had awesome writing, but average story.

 

[Sigourn]

I've only played Icewind Dale and barely a couple of hours of Pillars of Eternity. Icewind Dale's dialogue was concise and nuanced when it needed be, but the story itself is a different matter altogether (I thought it was boring, repetitive, but at least short; by comparison, Trials of the Luremaster was much more engaging and, most importantly, FAR MORE ORIGINAL). Pillars of Eternity was simply a snorefest based on those couple of hours, too much loredump and unnatural manners of speaking. I wish Baldur's Gate had been written (dialogue, descriptions) like Icewind Dale was.

 

[Egosphere]

Writing or story?
For example Far Cry 3 had awesome writing, but average story.

They're both average tbh. Vaas was the best out of a bad lot. I can't remember a single line from Hoyt or Buck or anyone else. Apart from that one grunt inexplicably calling you over and asking you if you want to make some money off of Hoyt's troubles. You can always count on Ubisoft to deliver at least one lolworthy scene per game.

 

[Karwelas]

Here, posting it in no particular order because I don't scale to your expectations level.


Divinity: Original Sin 2 - really, it is mixed bag - I'm fond of Larian humour, but some jokes were forced. The main plot, on the other hand, was suprisingly dark and gritty, making it much better then first part (as far as I played, dropped the game soon before ending). Concentration camps for Sourcerers, Void stuff, characters dying left and right. Impressive asset of possiblity to play premade or custom characters. And you can bone lizard as skeleton, that is very important part. (One of few parts of the game that made me laugh openly. This quest is golden as undead) ALSO YOU CAN PLAY AS FUCKING SKELETON. THAT COUNTS, ALL RIGHT?

Witcher 3 - again, mixed bag. The base game has few issues with writing, but generally, it is solid. Missing few important characters (I want Iorveth back, CDP:R. I know you have him) wasn't help either, but to be honest, I really had fun with plot in this game, both side ones or main one (with exception of Ciri choices stuff. You ain't destroying lab of someone cause you are angry HURR DURR). It also managed to make Ciri likeable character, instead of using that retarded bitch from the books. Expansions deserve addtional few lines: Hearts of Stone is absoluty fucking great, entire plot of it takes from all sort of polish folkore tales (Twardowski and such), the choices aren't easy as Olgierd really fucked up some things, but he is still likeable. Also, Shani and entire ghost wedding sequence. Blood and Wine was beautiful goodbye to the series, taking place in much more coloful area. Great characters (Regis is bro on par of Broche and Talar), more but- I mean, beautiful views, "knightly" atmosphere. I may be a bit biased because I'm fan of the books, but still, expansions raise the writing quality at least by few points.

Age of Decadence - I will get shanked for that one... uh, let me say this - I'm not fan of this game. The reactivity of plot is impressive, but I just refuse to believe it took 11 years to make this game by a team of people. Each route takes max 5-8 hours if you don't include getting shagged by combat system, which is best part of the game for sure. The skill uses were fucking random on most routes, often cutting you from ways to do stuff, entire third act of the game feels like it was rushed as fuck (and considering first two were short ones already...) If anybody from team read that, sorry, but this is what I think. Really, wasted time for me.

Pillars of Eternity - borefest, to be honest. There are few ideas in the game that are done right (attributes - traits interaction in dialogues, few lore elements, Eder), but mostly, it is loredump. Fights are boring enough, but the plot, while having few good hooks, still fails. Expansion is probably best element of the game and I hope that Deadfire will be made based in it, not the vanilla game. (And actually, Tyranny does the choices better, but is still lacking as fuck. Really, joining Overlord in fucking DLC/later patch?)

Icewind Dale - surprisingly, it is very solid. It isn't genius, but for D&D game based on combat, rather then plot and character interaction? Good enough for me. Second one is even better in that department, so I can't really hate either of those. (Vulcano time loop section is pretty fun)

Kingdom Come: Deliverance - ah, Warhorse child. I got to say - it is mixed bag again, but for really different reason then games above. Some characters. for example, are great: Henry, Radzik, Hans (fuck you too bro, you are prick, but bro prick), the rest of the lords are pretty great, while the villain department is severly lacking good characters. Wow, two are gays. Cumans are made OH GOD EVIL BARBARIANS. Simplicity of the main part (revenge) and mix of the political talk is really great, at least for me. Generally, like it was said, it is blacksmith son turned lord's fighter simulator. I really liked the town patrol quest, the Hans quest at the bathouse is really good too, but absolutly nothing beats Father Godwin stuff. I really liked this one, but it still have large flaws at some points. Also historical stuff: like Sigismund being liked by Hungarians - which was bullshit because they hated the guy for being "outsider" and his lack of care for their business.

Elex - didn't play it yet.

 

[JarlFrank]

Elex - didn't play it yet.

how are you even polish

 

[Werdna's Revenge]

Of the ones I played:

Best: AoD
IWD
Witcher 3
Worst: PoE

 

[HeatEXTEND]

1.Age of Decadence
2.who gives a fuck

 

[HeatEXTEND]

The problem with AoD
Even Neverwinter Nights 1 realized how to do that stuff better - they told you story in parts and your character could ask some clarifying question, express an opinion on what they heard or just simply say "Go on".

Did you even play the fucking game ?

 

[vazha]

Why's IWD writing getting blasted? It's quite a standard D&D fare, much better than POI or Divinity (which is atrocious)

 

[fantadomat]

Why's IWD writing getting blasted? It's quite a standard D&D fare, much better than POI or Divinity (which is atrocious)

It isn't really getting blasted,it is more like it is not the focus of the game. I don't get it why AoD is getting such high votes,the writing is clearly between mediocre and bad. But i take it,this is the blindness of the fanaticism.