Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Turn-Based Tactics Into the Breach: Advanced Edition - mech tactics game from FTL devs with Chris Avellone writing

Mark Richard

Arcane
Joined
Mar 14, 2016
Messages
1,192
I've managed to turn things around on my first playthrough, clearing 3 islands, recruiting a new pilot, and outfitting each vehicle with a secondary weapon. The Light Tank in particular has been invaluable, basically giving me a disposable extra unit on the battlefield that can move enemies (preferably into the sea or a mountainside). I can even toss the little fella several spaces, and it gets its turn right away.
 

tripedal

Augur
Joined
Feb 22, 2015
Messages
401
Location
Ultima Thule
Finished my first campaign. The smoke bomb squad is ridiculously OP.

Somewhat disappointed overall, gets repetitive quickly and there's not much depth to the gameplay.
 

The Fish

Arcane
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
1,216
Seems a lot easier than FTL, I've played and successfully completed two runs on normal. I don't think I even beat FTL on normal, though I only played it for a few hours.

The final mission doesn't really compare to the FTL boss fight. I was hoping for a third phase, it was a little anticlimactic.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,437
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
As I told sser, it sure sounds like they read criticisms about FTL being too hard and overshot in the other direction. Making a game that's this small and easy isn't good. People do demand their money's worth in gameplay hours and they'll get mad when they finish the game in one sitting on their first try.

Would work nicely as a mobile game though.
 
Last edited:

Galdred

Studio Draconis
Patron
Developer
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
4,357
Location
Middle Empire
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
It is a shame because the criticisms of FTL were misplaced in the first place IMO. Sure, mastering the game took time, but after that, it was quite possible to reliably succeed on normal (except maybe with the two most punishing set-ups, the ENGI A, and the Stealth B).
 

MRY

Wormwood Studios
Developer
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
5,716
Location
California
How's Avellone's writing? As good as ever? I haven't followed how the campaign story is done closely enough to know what to expect.
 

Shadowfang

Arcane
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
2,006
Location
Road to Arnika
Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech
Wow having a blast. I don't have much time to play until May of this year and ItB is fitting quite the spot. So far it is not as hard as FTL but it is as addicting. I can't stop keeping myself of replaying again.
 

---

Arcane
Joined
Dec 19, 2015
Messages
1,724
Location
Italy
How's Avellone's writing? As good as ever? I haven't followed how the campaign story is done closely enough to know what to expect.
There are few texts. There's - simply - not enough space to invent something.
It could have been written by anyone.
 

Kyl Von Kull

The Night Tripper
Patron
Joined
Jun 15, 2017
Messages
3,152
Location
Jamrock District
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Would work nicely as a mobile game though.

I have exactly the same thought every time I see a trailer or gameplay video. This thing is the perfect level of complexity and the perfect look for mobile; even the gameplay seems ideal for a touchscreen. I loved surreptitiously playing FTL on my phone at work or openly playing it on my tablet in the subway.
 

Urthor

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Mar 22, 2015
Messages
1,872
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
This is probably the best "work game" I've played in a long time. It's an absolutely perfect alt-tab timewaster.

As a business model they've literally created the perfect low budget 2D indie that works on IOS/Android/Steam with potential for great touch controls

How's Avellone's writing? As good as ever? I haven't followed how the campaign story is done closely enough to know what to expect.

There's extremely little writing in this game. It's not like FTL, there's barely any narrative in this game.
 
Last edited:

Kyl Von Kull

The Night Tripper
Patron
Joined
Jun 15, 2017
Messages
3,152
Location
Jamrock District
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Yeah, it’s got a good hook. I’ve only played two hours but I can’t figure out what the heck Chris Avellone was helping them with. It’s pretty light on words and narrative.

As much as I like these developers, it’s hard to escape the feeling that they hired the human stretch goal as a kind of endorsement deal to appeal to story/ /dialogue/character lovers who otherwise might not be attracted to this kind of game.
 

ColCol

Arcane
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
1,731
I like it, but I feel like it is going to be overrated. The game play is fine but it has been done better by games like hoplite. Yet people are shouting "game of the year" already. Also, I already feel like it's going to lead to a glut of simplified turn based games. I know two are already being made, one by Tom Francis.
 

Cyberarmy

Love fool
Patron
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
8,461
Location
Smyrna - Scalanouva
Divinity: Original Sin 2
I quite like the game but it don't have the staying power of FTL methinks. Still a cool, little puzzle game to play 1-2 campaigns when you need some simple stuff. Also very easy to learn but hard to master. (by mastering I mean perfect missions and islands)
 

Arnust

Savant
Joined
Dec 22, 2016
Messages
680
Location
Spain
It's all partly random. The "regions" of the islands and their respective objective w/e the optional ones seem to be preset, but the point where start from and the placement of them is random, so you can get a chance to dodge that one mission you really hate or reversely pick one that you think will be easier with your current squad setup, but not 100% the time. The arenas themselves have some constants but the tiles vary, seems like.

In my first run I got up to halfway through the 3rd island in Normal (only playing in normal) but further attempts haven't been so successful. Concentration was abut dissipated. After that I've got the Blitzkrieg and the Zenith squads.

Some comparisons are unfavourable when against FTL... But realistically, what could have been?

A thing I really really like and feels like was read from my mind off the list of complaints to learn from with FTL was the "Stores". Have them be at a determined point or at least very likely, and make themselves as important as drops, with no piece of merchandise in them be¡ng completely useless (did anyone buy missiles, drones or crew in shops in FTL?). That and the item on sale is the cherry on top.
 

Urthor

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Mar 22, 2015
Messages
1,872
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Anyone figured out what the best robots are? So far all I've figured out is the second to unlock robots are absolute shite
 

Arnust

Savant
Joined
Dec 22, 2016
Messages
680
Location
Spain
Is it just me or is squad 3's rambot hard to use?
The +1 Damage EACH is a very dangerous upgrade if you don't have a sizeable lot of health via upgrades or Pilots already and ideally some bonus to the repair move (For instance, the pilot who does a harmless push in all directions when repairing is ideal). He's the guy you should be stopping Vek from spawning with of the composition. You should try and give it shield bubbles if you can, too. He can do up to 4 damage on his own upgrades + push with a dash which is insanely good but I won't say it hasn't killed one or two pilots already.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,437
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Goons gonna goon:

Into the Breach: Strategically Pushing Kaiju Bugs Into Pools

I accidentally killed two of my own mechs in one turn, the concussive force from a long range artillery shell bonking their heads together like a pair of coconuts. I was so focused on punching a dam that I let a giant hornet sting a launchpad to death before it could blast a satellite into space. I left three timelines behind in ruins, time-jumping away with an apologetic shrug.

I am absolutely terrible at Into the Breach (from the makers of FTL), which is how I know it's a top-tier strategy game. Historically, the genre's best titles are those which most creatively reveal how my brain is a tremendous dumbass. And boy, is my brain dumbassing it up big time.

It would probably help if I explained what a competent player is supposed to do in this game.

itb01.gif


Assemble a squad of three mechs. Travel to one of the four remaining inhabited islands on a dying Earth. Choose a mission with its own set of randomized objectives, hazards, and rewards. Watch giant bug monsters pop out of the ground and attack buildings full of heckling doofuses. Take turns being very rude to one another.

In most games you'd shoot the bad guys until they fell over. Here, you turn Asshole Physics into an art form. Let's take a look at just one example:

itb02.png


Ignore the XP-shitting laser beam on the left. See the alien bug down in the bottom right? That line of red dots extending from his side tells us that on his next turn he will shoot a wad of alien bug vomit on the skyscraper. We have a few options.

Just about all of our attacks have a built-in knockback which allows us to push the enemy precisely where we want them. We could simply shove the bug one tile over so that its shot goes wide. Or we could slam the bug into the mountain, damaging the bug and splitting said mountain. If there was water nearby we could knock the bug in and drown it immediately. How about a forest fire that inflicts damage over time?

We could knock the bug into another bug (or one of our own mechs) if one happened to be adjacent. Or we could knock another bug directly into the path of this one's attack. If that bug happened to be winding up a shot that would now be aimed at this first bug... ah. That's the good stuff.

If we were using a different set of mechs we could jump over this bug and fart a lightning cloud on its head, paralyzing and damaging it. Or we could use a magnet to yank him against our eager mech body.

And that's just this move. If the bug was still alive we could follow up with a of Rube Goldberg machine of impolite shoving.

Since you know exactly where your opponents' attacks will go in the next round and you have so many tools to reposition them, every round turns into a miniature puzzle in which you try to figure out the most efficient way to stick your foot out and trip them.

I, on the other hand, have a knack for figuring out the most efficient way to stick my foot out and split my pants wide open.

Bonus Tips For Beginners

These might be pretty obvious concepts that smart people will pick up immediately in-game, but I am an idiot and you might be too.

The game points out that you can park your mech butt on these spawn points to prevent enemies from popping up:

itb03.jpg


Great! Here's what I don't think the game mentions: You take 1 damage when the emerging enemy bumps its head against your butt. In most cases it's worth it.

Now let's say you've got that lingering 1 point of damage. You click this little repair icon shown above or hit R and end your turn, assuming this unit will rest and recover 1 HP between rounds:

itb04.jpg


Nothing happens, because that's not how this works. After activating the repair you have to target and click yourself. The heal happens immediately.

I absolutely refuse to admit how long it took me to figure this out.
 

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
Interview with the creators: https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news...s_not_yourself_in_Subsets_Into_the_Breach.php

Why you save the cities, not yourself, in Subset's Into the Breach

What’s in a failstate?

For many games, from RPGs to tactics games, failure comes with the death of your characters. Your party might have met a sticky end in the bowels of a dungeon, or your fighters might have perished at the hands of mercenaries in a battle. Success, on the other hand, is getting them through unscathed.

Into the Breach, the excellent new turn-based mech tactics game from Subset Games, developer of FTL: Faster Than Light, is different.

“We’re requiring players to unlearn something that’s been taught by almost every other strategy game, which is that losing your mechs or main characters is the worst thing that can happen,” says artist and co-designer Justin Ma.

Into the Breach blends the Rogue-like progression of FTL, in which you must survive and upgrade your squad of three mechs to meet an ever-rising threat, with intricate tactics-style puzzling as you out-maneuver and out-think your adversary, the Vek, giant insects which burst from the ground and are hellbent on destroying humanity.

But your fortunes don’t rest on your mechs, which are fundamentally expendable. Instead, they rest on the cities of civilians that the Vek are attacking. For every one that falls to their attacks you’ll lose one point from your Power Grid, and when you have no points left, it’s game over. It’s therefore this gauge that underscores all your choices in the game, as you decide between saving a city and putting your mechs into danger.

How to make players care about cities
“Collateral damage to the buildings was always an important part of the game,” says co-designer and programmer Matthew Davis.

The original inspiration for Into the Breach was the observation that in most superhero movies, cities are destroyed in huge fights and no one seems to care. What if they could make a game in which you were tasked with protecting cities during giant-scale battles?

But to get players to care about defending cities wasn’t as easy as it might seem. Development on Into the Breach began in earnest in early 2014 when Subset finally finished FTL’s iPad port, and Ma and Davis began sketching out ideas for how they could give buildings a sense of importance by making them look pretty or by showing the body count when they’re destroyed.

“But at the end of the day, any amount of atmosphere you can put over the top of something is going to be shallow compared to tying it to an important mechanic like your health,” says Davis.

They toyed with the game being about protecting a single city which would evolve over time, with players having to build structures and repair them when they were damaged, making them matter because they’d just taken a chunk of resources to build them up.

“That didn’t feel very good,” says Ma.

“Yeah, it still didn’t come together in a way we liked,” adds Davis.

But focusing enemies’ attentions on the city did tie together well with the core mechanic that was steadily evolving for the game, namely, the idea that players always know where the enemy are attacking next so each turn they have a chance to disrupt them before they unleash havoc. But when the mechs were the only target, they found that the threatened havoc was trivial, because all the mechs needed to do was to walk away.

ss_4ba0a0a7ff01b0d2d1d840fcb8b0b570a7ed69f7_1920x1080.jpg


“The only way to make it difficult was to flood the board with enemies and danger zones, which becomes needlessly complex and hard to parse,” says Ma. “That was the antithesis of what we were trying to do.” And so, around two years into development, the cities became the target.

“The most important thing to making a compelling game, for us personally, is if the storytelling, the atmosphere, the lessons it’s teaching you, are all directly tied to gameplay,” Ma continues. “If you’re trying convince me of something that has nothing to do with gameplay, it just doesn’t have anywhere near the impact when I’m making decisions that are tied to it.”

Designing shifting priorities
From turn to turn, Into the Breach is a game of shifting and painful decisions as you weigh up the pros and cons of your situation. Many factors are important. At the top of the pile is your overall health, the Power Grid, which when full is just seven points, so at best you’re only seven cities away from the apocalypse.

Every other priority is up for change, depending on what threats the Vek present. In each battle you’ll have bonus objectives which will award you certain vital resources if you succeed. Reputation buys new weapons and gear, Reactor Cores will power up your mechs, unlocking new abilities, and you can also earn more Power Grid points.

So you’ll often face situations in which you can either destroy the dam that will earn you a Reputation point or you can save a city from a Vek attack, but not both. Or you can earn a Power Grid point, but maybe that will destroy a mech.

ss_e5f83ee0fa82c8403e6a3f28e19ac0b1ab881e6b_1920x1080.jpg


To balance the relative importance of these general priorities, Subset tried various lengths of the bar, including a system by which players could upgrade its length. But they found that by the end of the game it could get so long that players would start not to care about doing damage to it.

“Once your power bar becomes twice as long, it doesn’t have as much value as killing the monster, and so you no longer have that decision. It’s always worth the collateral damage of punching the monster into the building,” says Davis.

To respond to that, they considered scaling up the number of buildings on the map and the amount of damage enemies could do to them, and then that meant also scaling up the player’s potential for recovering from damage. “When you look at it all you think, ‘Why are we even scaling it if absolutely everything has to scale evenly?’ Just keep it all low!” Ma says.

Making mechs matter less
And then there are your mechs. “Mechs do still matter in the sense that if they die you get punished with the pilot death,” says Davis. Pilots are separate from your mechs, and as they make kills they’ll earn XP which grant extra hit points and movement, plus pilot-specific extra abilities, such as reducing incoming damage.

So when a mech is destroyed its pilot dies, taking with them their bonuses, but the mech will return for the next battle with an AI pilot which can’t earn XP. It’s therefore entirely viable to lose a mech if circumstances demand it, especially since you’ll likely be able to buy or find a new pilot anyway.

Similarly, Subset ensured that players used their mechs without too much concern for their wellbeing by automatically recouping their health after every battle. But before committing to that idea, they considered a repair system which costed resources to bring them back to strength.

“It makes you want to protect your mechs more,” says Ma. But it also reduced players’ inclinations to put them in harm’s way by, for example, blocking damage to cities. “So we felt it was more important to just gloss over and ignore the whole repairing of mechs concept and fully heal them after every battle so you can really use their health bar as a tool during the battle, rather than be worried every time you take damage.”

Hand-designing endless battles
While Into the Breach is systems-led, its battles aren’t played out on procedurally generated maps. “It was important to control the map design in a way that it didn’t generate maps that aren’t fun to play on,” says Davis. He knew that since they’re only 8x8 tiles in size, it would be much cheaper to hand-design 100 maps than to design a procedural system.

ss_3a670d203ac5c1ab538099e014978565740eb406_1920x1080.jpg


But he and Ma had to learn how to avoid maps which weren’t fun. “The most frustrating thing that can happen is to have situation where you have no options whatsoever to resolve,” says Ma. To an extent, objectives such as giving players special buildings to defend helps to widen the available priorities.

“Having these tough decisions where what you feel is the highest priority in a given situation changes because of a mission is one of the ways to make the game feel dynamic and interesting,” Ma continues.

But still, the maps had to be engineered so they didn’t throw up frustrating situations. Two buildings diagonally positioned from each other or in an L-shape is a big no-no, because if a Vek gets into the nook they form to attack a city, players have few options to deal with them. Many attacks push targets back, so they’d send it crashing into the very buildings the players should be defending.

“You need to always be able to manipulate them,” says Davis. “If the enemy is in a position where you can’t move it, then it becomes this unstoppable force and it’s not fun at all.”

It’s useful to think of Into the Breach as a game that throws out effectively endless puzzles, each turn presenting a thorny little problem in which you have to balance priorities to ensure your survival. But one thing is always clear: your Power Grid. Its clarity allows the rest of your priorities to constantly shift so you’re rarely sure of your best move while also knowing what’s genuinely bad. And that’s where Into the Breach becomes electric.

“If it’s just a simple experience where in every situation you want to do the same choice, it’s not much of a game to me,” says Ma. “You as a player don’t have much agency, you’re just a robot with a hierarchy of decision-making. So when you have this interplay between buildings being important, mechs being important, objectives being important, it empowers interesting decision-making.”
 

34scell

Augur
Joined
Apr 6, 2014
Messages
384
The game seems really easy with the default loadout. Finished it first time on hard, no real desire to play again.
 

orcinator

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 23, 2016
Messages
1,704
Location
Republic of Kongou
Yeah, I didn't even try Hard mode after beating normal on the third try and I'm having a hard time giving it another go (though part of the reason is because I chose the crappy expensive squads for my unlocks).

Also for a supposed mech game, a third of the mechs are tanks. And another third are just a gun on four legs. Really, really boring designs all around.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom